Who Are The Palestinians " III "

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Self-Determination.
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: There is not dancing involved. You need hearing aids and new eye-glass. Maybe a stick and a seeing-eye dog.

The State of Israel emerged on the scene under their "Right of Self-Determination." (End or Story!)

Your idea of authority and some documentation supporting the statehood is all well and good. But at the end of the day, Israel determines who they are, what they are and where they are., And if the last seven decades (+) show any consistency in their determination, it is that Israel will fight to maintain what they have. The Israelis will not put-up with this "dancing argument" as is presented here. The Israelis are not going to allow the Jihadists, Fedayeen Activists, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, Street Thugs, and Asymmetric Fighters to have forced upon them political, social, or self-defense prerequisites.

Israel will act in its own best interest. AND that is the real meat and potatoes behind the Israeli Right to Self-Determination. And the Israelis do not care what the Arab Palestinians have to say about it. Yes, maybe the Israelis will voluntarily listen to what thoughts the Arab Palestinian (as a demonstration of good manners) have on any given decision. However, the Israelis make the decisions.

The People called Israelis will not be compelled by any eternal force that has the destruction of their state as any objective.

The Israelis do not have to dance at all to the tone played by the likes of opposing nations (as expressed here by P F Tinmore). The Israelis will do what need to be done to insure the safety and security of the Jewish National Home - the State of Israel - for today, tomorrow, and for centuries to come.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

Remember the signs in Nazi Germany saying “Jews not allowed” at the entrance to some shops?

Now Salfit District Governor Abdallah Kamil has “issued a series of important decisions” of which one brings the term “Jews not allowed” to mind. It specifically “forbids” Palestinian businesses to “receive any settler” – i.e., Israelis/Jews. Whoever violates this rule risks closure of his business by the PA Security Forces:

1. It is completely forbidden to have commercial relations with the settlers, according to Law No. 4 of 2010. It is forbidden to receive any settler in our places of business. We have conveyed clear instructions to the relevant [PA] Security Forces to close any store that violates this decision and to put its owners on trial.

1. All signs written in the Hebrew language placed in the various places of business and workshops must be removed within a week at the latest. The required legal procedures will be taken against those who do not fulfill this.

1. We emphasize once more that one must not carry out any action of selling lands, and specifically in Area C (i.e., land under full Israeli administration according to the Oslo Accords), without first receiving security permission from the district.”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Aug. 28, 2022]

These decisions in force in the Salfit district in the northwestern West Bank have been made to hinder any kind of peace building between Palestinians and Israelis/Jews as their goal is “to fight the settlement enterprise and the relations with the settlers in the district.” District Governor Kamil added that the Palestinian people “will not agree to any manner of coexistence or normalization with the settlers.” The PA routinely refers to all of Israel as "occupied Palestine" and all Israelis as "settlers."

Palestinian Media Watch has reported extensively on the third rule above. It is forbidden by PA law to sell land to “the enemy” –i.e., Israelis/Jews. The law has been reinforced by a religious ban – a fatwa – issued by the PA Supreme Fatwa Council, led by PA Grand Mufti and Supreme Fatwa Council Chairman Sheikh Muhammad Hussein.

In addition to these rules being in force in the Salfit district, in all PA schools any trace of the existence of Israel has been erased and thus there are “no Israeli products and products from the settlements in the school kiosks.” This was apparently verified by no other than PA Prime Minister Muhammad Shtayyeh, who together with deputy ministers and directors-general of the Ministry of Education “examined the preparations and preparedness of the [PA] Ministry of Education for the start of the school year.” [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Aug. 29, 2022]

The following is a longer excerpt of the report on the anti-Jews decisions made by Salfit District Governor Abdallah Kamil:


(full article online)

”Jews not allowed!” - in shops in the Salfit District | PMW Analysis

”Jews not allowed!” - in shops in the Salfit District

palwatch.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

The PA routinely refers to all of Israel as "occupied Palestine" and all Israelis as "settlers."

Hmmm, anyone want to refute this?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The State of Israel emerged on the scene under their "Right of Self-Determination."

Self-Determination is not a means of territory acquisition.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Self-Determination is not a means of territory acquisition.

Not for the Palestinians. LOL!

 

[rylah]

Hmmm, anyone want to refute this?

Israelis and PA Arabs came from the same Muslim states.

But Arab imperialists fought on the side of the British imperialists,
while Israelis resisted, ending both the British and Arab occupation.

 

[rylah]

Self-Determination is not a means of territory acquisition.

From whom did Jordan and Lebanon acquire territory?

 

[rylah]

They were being attacked by the opposition.

Why don't you know that?

I know that when you describe tossing the opposition off buildings
as 'elected government in office', there's no point talking about
elections, government or a nation, only warring factions,
not ready to stand alone and take responsibility.

 

[P F Tinmore]

From whom did Jordan and Lebanon acquire territory?

From Turkey in the Treaty of Lausanne.

 

[rylah]

From Turkey in the Treaty of Lausanne.

No they didn't, not even mentioned.
And Turkey acquire it from who?

Let's see that document...

 

[P F Tinmore]

No they didn't, not even mentioned.
And Turkey acquire it from who?

Let's see that document...

Turkey/Ottoman Empire stole the land from the locals like all colonial powers do.

 

[rylah]

Turkey/Ottoman Empire stole the land from the locals like all colonial powers do.

So the supposed Lebanese acquisition of territory,
which you can't find in that document,
is from an occupier without
the legal title?

Interesting, that makes
all these Arab states illegitimate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So the supposed Lebanese acquisition of territory,
which you can't find in that document,
is from an occupier without
the legal title?

Interesting, that makes
all these Arab states illegitimate.

Not really. Virtually all of the cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman empire. Who owned the land back then?

When the Ottoman Empire conquered the territory, conquest was not illegal.

When Israel conquered Palestine, conquest was illegal.

 

[Hollie]

Not really. Virtually all of the cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman empire. Who owned the land back then?

When the Ottoman Empire conquered the territory, conquest was not illegal.

When Israel conquered Palestine, conquest was illegal.

Israel conquered pal'istan?

Such babbling nonsense.

 

[Hollie]

''Religion of Peace''​

​

​

”Jews not allowed!” - in shops in the Salfit District | PMW Analysis

”Jews not allowed!” - in shops in the Salfit District

palwatch.org

​

”Jews not allowed!” - in shops in the Salfit District​

Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Aug 31, 2022

• “It is completely forbidden to have commercial relations with the settlers”
• “It is forbidden to receive any settler in our places of business”
• “All signs written in the Hebrew language placed in the various places of business and workshops must be removed”

Remember the signs in Nazi Germany saying “Jews not allowed” at the entrance to some shops?
Now Salfit District Governor Abdallah Kamil has “issued a series of important decisions” of which one brings the term “Jews not allowed” to mind. It specifically “forbids” Palestinian businesses to “receive any settler” – i.e., Israelis/Jews. Whoever violates this rule risks closure of his business by the PA Security Forces:

1. It is completely forbidden to have commercial relations with the settlers, according to Law No. 4 of 2010. It is forbidden to receive any settler in our places of business. We have conveyed clear instructions to the relevant [PA] Security Forces to close any store that violates this decision and to put its owners on trial.

1. All signs written in the Hebrew language placed in the various places of business and workshops must be removed within a week at the latest. The required legal procedures will be taken against those who do not fulfill this.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When the Ottoman Empire conquered the territory, conquest was not illegal.

When Israel conquered Palestine, conquest was illegal.

When the Ottoman Empire lost the territory, Israel didn't have to conquer anything.

 

[Sixties Fan]

A guest post by Kweansmom for the Elder of Ziyon blog on August 30 broke the story. During a recent visit to her relatives in the West Bank, a woman famous for her deep-seated animus towards the Jewish state also spent some time in Israel, where she explored the northern city of Haifa.

And Sarsour revealed this part of her itinerary to no one. She chose not to mention her visit to Haifa to her 323,000 Twitter followers. On Facebook, there’s a rather vague August 10 post, where Sarsour writes that her daughters visited ‘Palestine,’but not a word to her 221,000 virtual friends about her Haifa adventure. She does mention her stop over in Bethlehem on July 27, but this city is located in the West Bank and is administered by the Palestinian Authority.

Why the cover-up?

Linda Sarsour has a history of echoing the age-old antisemitic trope that Jews believe they are a “superior” race. Sarsour has publicly declared that Israel was founded on the idea of “Jewish supremacy.”

On the issue of equality, Sarsour ignited a firestorm in 2017 when she declared that there’s no room for Zionism in the feminist movement.


Yet Sarsour’s views are in stark contrast to what she saw during her secret getaway to Israel.

As noted by Kweansmom:

According to publicly available social media posts from others in her touring group, Linda Sarsour walked along Rehov Yefe Nof (literally, the Street with the Beautiful View) from where she could view Haifa Bay and almost all of Haifa itself. The view includes the spectacular Bahai Gardens and the spiritual center of the Baha’i faith. The Bahai sect originated in Iran, where it is persecuted, but in Israel, the Bahai enjoy full freedom of religion.”

Sarsour could not have picked a worse place to confirm her biases against Israel. Muslim and Christian Arabs account for nearly 11 percent of Haifa’s population.

The city has welcomed Protestant migrants from Germany, Jews from Romania, Bahá í believers and the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, a reformist movement founded in India. Haifa’s tapestry of backgrounds is enhanced even more by the presence of Muslim Sunni, Christians Catholic and Orthodox, as well as Druze.

The city is widely considered to be Israel’s most ethnically mixed.

And while Sarsour has in the past collaborated with Louis Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam, which has a long “record of antisemitism and bigotry,” over in Haifa, a “bubble of inclusivity, multiculturalism and co-existence that serves as an example to Israel, and indeed the world,” is in full flower.



Related Reading: Farrakhan’s Antisemitism Being spread by Celebrities

Israel experiences the same racial tensions as any other modern, Western-style, liberal democracy. However, the legal, state-sanctioned discrimination that is the essence of the apartheid libel that Linda Sarsour regularly tars Israel with is not only absent, but it is combatted by the country’s laws and court system.




Maybe Linda Sarsour’s hush-hush summer detour to Haifa will affect her thinking about Israel.

If not — as we suspect — then it will be clear that she is even worse than a garden-variety antisemite and demonizer of Israel.

Because to simply negate everything she experienced in Israel would make Linda Sarsour guilty of rank hypocrisy.

(full article and tweets online)

Closet Zionist? Linda Sarsour’s On the Down Low Visit to Israel | HonestReporting

Linda Sarsour made news in April when the Geico insurance company canceled a company event with the prominent pro-Palestinian activist with a record of

honestreporting.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

A guest post by Kweansmom for the Elder of Ziyon blog on August 30 broke the story. During a recent visit to her relatives in the West Bank, a woman famous for her deep-seated animus towards the Jewish state also spent some time in Israel, where she explored the northern city of Haifa.

And Sarsour revealed this part of her itinerary to no one. She chose not to mention her visit to Haifa to her 323,000 Twitter followers. On Facebook, there’s a rather vague August 10 post, where Sarsour writes that her daughters visited ‘Palestine,’but not a word to her 221,000 virtual friends about her Haifa adventure. She does mention her stop over in Bethlehem on July 27, but this city is located in the West Bank and is administered by the Palestinian Authority.

Why the cover-up?

Linda Sarsour has a history of echoing the age-old antisemitic trope that Jews believe they are a “superior” race. Sarsour has publicly declared that Israel was founded on the idea of “Jewish supremacy.”

On the issue of equality, Sarsour ignited a firestorm in 2017 when she declared that there’s no room for Zionism in the feminist movement.


Yet Sarsour’s views are in stark contrast to what she saw during her secret getaway to Israel.

As noted by Kweansmom:


Sarsour could not have picked a worse place to confirm her biases against Israel. Muslim and Christian Arabs account for nearly 11 percent of Haifa’s population.

The city has welcomed Protestant migrants from Germany, Jews from Romania, Bahá í believers and the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, a reformist movement founded in India. Haifa’s tapestry of backgrounds is enhanced even more by the presence of Muslim Sunni, Christians Catholic and Orthodox, as well as Druze.

The city is widely considered to be Israel’s most ethnically mixed.

And while Sarsour has in the past collaborated with Louis Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam, which has a long “record of antisemitism and bigotry,” over in Haifa, a “bubble of inclusivity, multiculturalism and co-existence that serves as an example to Israel, and indeed the world,” is in full flower.



Related Reading: Farrakhan’s Antisemitism Being spread by Celebrities

Israel experiences the same racial tensions as any other modern, Western-style, liberal democracy. However, the legal, state-sanctioned discrimination that is the essence of the apartheid libel that Linda Sarsour regularly tars Israel with is not only absent, but it is combatted by the country’s laws and court system.




Maybe Linda Sarsour’s hush-hush summer detour to Haifa will affect her thinking about Israel.

If not — as we suspect — then it will be clear that she is even worse than a garden-variety antisemite and demonizer of Israel.

Because to simply negate everything she experienced in Israel would make Linda Sarsour guilty of rank hypocrisy.

(full article and tweets online)

Closet Zionist? Linda Sarsour’s On the Down Low Visit to Israel | HonestReporting

Linda Sarsour made news in April when the Geico insurance company canceled a company event with the prominent pro-Palestinian activist with a record of

honestreporting.com

Typical rightwingnut slime.

Author Visit with Linda Sarsour​

 

[Sixties Fan]

During a visit to The Palestinian Museum near Ramallah, a PA TV host tried her skills at virtual rock throwing.

At the museum visitors can participate in a number of interactive stories. One such story is about “the intifada” – the name given by Palestinians to their waves of violence and terror against Israel. Director of The Palestinian Museum’s Information and Communication Technology Unit Nasri Shtayyeh explained that in entering the interactive story, the visitor “needs to respond” to the “environment of intifada that could contain throwing rocks.” And indeed, the PA TV host is seen throwing virtual rocks in the broadcast:

Director of The Palestinian Museum’s Information and Communication Technology Unit Nasri Shtayyeh: “The user can choose one of these interactive stories. The first story is the intifada, and they have a kind of emotion, because the moment [the museum visitor] enters the story he needs to respond, since he is entering an environment of intifada that could contain throwing rocks, it could have road closures, it could have vehicles entering.” …
Official PA TV host: “Let’s try it.”
Nasri Shtayyeh: “It’s really nice, and it’s interactive.”

[Official PA TV, At the Museum, Aug. 24, 2022]​

For years, Palestinian Media Watch has exposed Palestinian indoctrination to violence and terror to the world. The violence promoted includes deadly rock throwing at Israeli targets. One such example was a guide for children how to throw rocks published by Fatah, the movement headed by PA leader Mahmoud Abbas.

Now that The Palestinian Museum has been revealed as a partner to this by openly endorsing violence against Israel, any institution - be it public or private – supporting the museum should reconsider whether they want to continue giving a hand to terror promotion.

The British Council is listed among the founding donors of the museum, and was supporting projects at the museum as late as 2021 (the “conservation for digitization” project) according to its website. The British Council states that “although we receive a government grant in aid, the British Council is operationally independent from the UK government.” However, they maintain close ties with the UK government, meeting annually with the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whose office also appoints a member for the British Council’s Board of Trustees (See screenshot below). Moreover, the British Council’s patron is HM Queen Elizabeth II:

[Website of British Council, “How we work with government” page,
accessed Sept. 1, 2022]​

[Website of British Council, “About us” page,
accessed Sept. 1, 2022]​

The Palestinian Museum is a “Swiss-registered non-governmental association with a branch in Palestine” and “an independent institution with no political affiliations,” according to its website. [Accessed Sept. 1, 2022]

Palestinian museum encourages rock throwing and intifada | PMW Analysis

Palestinian museum encourages rock throwing and intifada

palwatch.org

 

[rylah]

Not really. Virtually all of the cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman empire. Who owned the land back then?

When the Ottoman Empire conquered the territory, conquest was not illegal.

When Israel conquered Palestine, conquest was illegal.

According to your logic, back then ownership was of whatever empire to conquer the land.
When conquest is illegal and acquisition is not self-determination, then Israel couldn't
conquer Palestine, but only the territory of British and Arabian prince's colonies.
So how can Palestine ever have legitimate independence?

And was the conquest of Gaza by Hamas legal
because of an "attack by the opposition"?