White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Emma]

But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?

I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.

Whether he was or not doesn't matter. Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

 

[Si modo]

I never said it was against the law to follow someone.

OK. Then you enjoy bringing up the irrelevant.

I'm not the one who brought it up:

Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the **** they want to?

Yes, you were. You brought up the irrelevant.

The alleged fact that someone was following someone else is irrelevant. YOU brought THAT up.

 

[Si modo]

I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.

Whether he was or not doesn't matter. Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

I agree on both points. To the first, why are the politicians wasting the FBI's time on this?

I have a good idea why, but let's see if others can come up with something similar.

To the second, we cannot convict anyone for something they may do. Sometimes it feels like our hands are tied, but better to tie them than to allow any abuse of authority. I imagine you agree.

 

[Katzndogz]

But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?

I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.

I just heard one. Zimmerman had wounds consistent with self defense.

 

[Emma]

Whether he was or not doesn't matter. Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

I agree on both points. To the first, why are the politicians wasting the FBI's time on this?

I have a good idea why, but let's see if others can come up with something similar.


To the second, we cannot convict anyone for something they may do. Sometimes it feels like our hands are tied, but better to tie them than to allow any abuse of authority. I imagine you agree.

Yes, but I'm not suggesting they convict him now for what he may do... just that I can see him doing something stupid in the future where he won't be so lucky as to have such an inane law to protect him.

 

[Liability]

The alleged "white" shooter was actually Hispanic.

 

[Si modo]

I'm not the one who brought it up:

Yes, you were. You brought up the irrelevant.

The alleged fact that someone was following someone else is irrelevant. YOU brought THAT up.

Well, I can't make you comprehend what you read.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-31.html#post4987633

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-22.html#post4986974

I have no idea to what you are linking. The both go to the top of this page.

 

[Emma]

But how badly must one be beaten before one has the right to use deadly force?

I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.

I just heard one. Zimmerman had wounds consistent with self defense.

Have there been any reports of wounds found on Trayvon that would indicate he struck zimmerman?

 

[Crackerjack]

The alleged "white" shooter was actually Hispanic.

I'd pay good money to see the NAACP and LULAC go at it over this.

 

[Ravi]

I've seen no report that says zimmerman was beaten, badly or otherwise.

Whether he was or not doesn't matter. Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.

I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.

 

[Emma]

Yes, you were. You brought up the irrelevant.

The alleged fact that someone was following someone else is irrelevant. YOU brought THAT up.

Well, I can't make you comprehend what you read.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-31.html#post4987633

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-22.html#post4986974

I have no idea to what you are linking. The both go to the top of this page.

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

George Zimmerman ≠ police officer.

indeed.

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

The 80 year old woman got out of her CAR & followed the 250 lb man AFTER calling 9/11 and being advised not to do so? WHY?

I'm pretty sure it is completely legal to get out of one's car and follow someone anywhere in the US, regardless of what a 9/11 dispatcher advises.

True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.

Why?

Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the **** they want to?

Don't see my name there in those posts leading up to the one I responded to ...

no matter.

it's late, I have to get to bed.

 

[Si modo]

Well, I can't make you comprehend what you read.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-31.html#post4987633

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...hoots-innocent-black-teen-22.html#post4986974

I have no idea to what you are linking. The both go to the top of this page.

True, but it will make it that much more difficult to raise the self-defense argument if the follower ends up shooting the followed.

Why?

Why do you presume that criminal's have the right to deny law abiding citizens the right to go wherever the **** they want to?

Don't see my name there in those posts leading up to the one I responded to ...

no matter.

it's late, I have to get to bed.

You are right. It was Peach. I apologize.

 

[Emma]

Whether he was or not doesn't matter. Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.

I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.

It's his word against a dead kid. He'll walk.

 

[Emma]

You are right. It was Peach. I apologize.

No biggie. To tell the truth, I'm so tired I thought ... well, maybe I DID say that

Getting old and confused really sucks LOL

 

[Ravi]

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.

I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.

It's his word against a dead kid. He'll walk.

The kid was reportedly talking on his cell phone when the attack happened. It would be very unusual for someone to attack someone while chatting on the phone.

 

[Si modo]

Whether he was or not doesn't matter. Florida has 'stand your ground' laws.

Which is why this guy is gonna walk, no matter what the FDLE or FBI conclude. I think he's got some serious issues that are going to continue until he does something he can't walk away from, however.

He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.

I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.

I think what might get him off is an independent witness already claiming that he saw Zimmerman on the ground.

Personally, I think this is a tragedy. I think the 17 yo was doing nothing but walking back to his father's fiancee's house - the kid probably had to get out. My fiancee's 17 yo can't stand me simply because I am his father's fiancee. So, the kid got out of the house for a break.

Zimmerman, being the wannabe copper, probably knew exactly what he could and could not do within the laws there. And, now that kid is dead.

Maybe the next session of the Florida legislature should revisit these laws.

 

[bayoubill]

You are right. It was Peach. I apologize.

No biggie. To tell the truth, I'm so tired I thought ... well, maybe I DID say that

Getting old and confused really sucks LOL

but, as my recently-deceased father-in-law used to say, "it's better than the alternative..."

 

[Emma]

He's got to prove that he felt threatened to get off on stand your ground.

I'm not clear on how a teen walking with skittles is a threat to anyone.

It's his word against a dead kid. He'll walk.

The kid was reportedly talking on his cell phone when the attack happened. It would be very unusual for someone to attack someone while chatting on the phone.

there is that ... have they been able to confirm that the girl was talking to Trayvon when she claimed to be?

 

[Emma]

You are right. It was Peach. I apologize.

No biggie. To tell the truth, I'm so tired I thought ... well, maybe I DID say that

Getting old and confused really sucks LOL

but, as my recently-deceased father-in-law used to say, "it's better than the alternative..."

true true

 

[The Gadfly]

The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.