Which Date Would You Honor?

[ding]

Ummmm... the first shot fired was upon a Union merchant ship, the Star of the West, as it tried to deliver supplies to Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor, South Carolina.

Oh another "first shot" comment. Oh boy. Is anybody aware of the next 99.999999999% of the war ?

Yep. I know about that too.

 

[alang1216]

I seem to recall the first shot of that war was an attack on a US military base. If the rebels had succeeded the US would look very different than it does today. If Yamamoto had succeeded the US would probably look very much as it does today. So which enemy of the US should we honor?

I've heard the "first shot" line many times. Congratulations! You get a prize for being the 1,000th one. The real point is 99.9% of the war was the north attacking the South, in the South, and the South fighting defensively. Get it ?

PS - I live in one of the 11 states of the old Confederacy. It is part of the "US" And I see no reason to think that the US would look different today than it does. In fact, much of the (mountainous) South would look no different, with no slavery (then or now)

I too live in the Old South and I doubt VA would look the same as it does now. Had the South seceded the North would have closed the borders and certainly wouldn't let many slaves in (the North was just as racist as the South). Those slaves would eventually have won their freedom and the South would resemble Central or South America today. The best thing the South ever did was lose.

 

[protectionist]

As one proceeds through the thread, all those who have never served in the military need to be reminded that POLICY comes from POLITICIANS, not soldiers.
Leave the soldier statues alone. Hands Off.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I guess Trump and the GOP, especially the GOP in Tennessee, are just being kind to the Dems when they keep putting up barriers to the removal of monuments to Forrest and other Confederate warriors.

Why does anybody attack a statue of a SOLDIER ?

Hitler was a soldier, would you object to a statue of him in your town?

Lenin was a soldier, why does Seattle have a statue of him in their town?

 

[alang1216]

As one proceeds through the thread, all those who have never served in the military need to be reminded that POLICY comes from POLITICIANS, not soldiers.
Leave the soldier statues alone. Hands Off.

The private follows orders, the 4-star general gives orders. The private fights the general does not. Generals are politicians, that is why military dictatorships are so common.

 

[alang1216]

I guess Trump and the GOP, especially the GOP in Tennessee, are just being kind to the Dems when they keep putting up barriers to the removal of monuments to Forrest and other Confederate warriors.

Why does anybody attack a statue of a SOLDIER ?

Hitler was a soldier, would you object to a statue of him in your town?

Lenin was a soldier, why does Seattle have a statue of him in their town?

Since Google is beyond your expertise, allow me:

• Venkov [the sculptor] intended the statue to function as a critique of communist oppression and depict Lenin as a violent man, with abstract rifles and flames on the statue, in contrast to the traditional depiction of Lenin holding a book.
• Much of the debate ignores the statue's private ownership and installation on private property, with the public and government having virtually no say in the matter.
  

 

[protectionist]

The private follows orders, the 4-star general gives orders. The private fights the general does not. Generals are politicians, that is why military dictatorships are so common.

FALSE! Generals are NOT politicians, and do not make POLICY. The 4-star general gives orders that come from POLITICIANS. Generals are soldiers, who follow orders, just like privates do. Only POLITICIANS make policy. What military did you ever serve in ?

 

[bdtex]

Today is a significant date in the life for two luminaries of their political party.....one Republican, one Democrat.

1. John C. Frémont, in full John Charles Frémont, (born January 21, 1813, Savannah, Georgia, U.S.—died July 13, 1890, New York, New York), American military officer and an early explorer and mapmaker of the American West, who was one of the principal figures in opening up that region to settlement and was instrumental in the U.S. conquest and development of California. He was also a politician who ran unsuccessfully for the U.S. presidency in 1856 as the first candidate of the newly formed Republican Party.
Britannica.com
View attachment 362752

The very first candidate for the party formed for the specific purpose of ending slavery in the United States.






2. Nathan Bedford Forrest, (born July 13, 1821, near Chapel Hill, Tennessee, U.S.—died October 29, 1877, Memphis, Tennessee), Confederate cavalry commander in the American Civil War (1861–65) who was often described as a “born military genius.” His rule of action, “Get there first with the most men,” became one of the most often quoted statements of the war. Forrest is also one of the most controversial figures from the Civil War era. His command was responsible for the massacre of African American Union troops stationed at Fort Pillow, Tennessee, in April 1864, and he served as the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in the early years of Reconstruction.
Britannica.com
View attachment 362754


On Demcember 24, 1865, Forrest formed the military arm of the Democrat Party, the Invisible Empire of the Ku Klux Klan.

In his honor, Hollywood used his name and family association for the film, Forrest Gump.

I honor both dates.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Democrats, the anti-America party, anti-police, pro-anarchy, anti-military, anti-history.

And anti-Christian.

They don't like Jewish folks that much, either.

It's religion per se.


"Just because any religious idea, any idea of any god at all, any flirtation even with a god, is the most inexpressible foulness, particularly tolerantly (and often even favourably) accepted by the democratic bourgeoisie—for that very reason it is the most dangerous foulness, the most shameful “infection.” A million physical sins, dirty tricks, acts of violence and infections are much more easily discovered by the crowd, and therefore are much less dangerous, than the nubile, spiritual idea of god, dressed up in the most attractive “ideological” costumes." Letter from Lenin to Maxim Gorky, Written on November 13 or 14, 1913 Lenin 55. TO MAXIM GORKY

 

[PoliticalChic]

I guess Trump and the GOP, especially the GOP in Tennessee, are just being kind to the Dems when they keep putting up barriers to the removal of monuments to Forrest and other Confederate warriors.

Why does anybody attack a statue of a SOLDIER ?

Hitler was a soldier, would you object to a statue of him in your town?

Lenin was a soldier, why does Seattle have a statue of him in their town?

You know why.....

 

[alang1216]

The private follows orders, the 4-star general gives orders. The private fights the general does not. Generals are politicians, that is why military dictatorships are so common.

FALSE! Generals are NOT politicians, and do not make POLICY. The 4-star general gives orders that come from POLITICIANS. Generals are soldiers, who follow orders, just like privates do. Only POLITICIANS make policy. What military did you ever serve in ?

That may be true in the ideal world, it is not in the real world. Generals may get their goals from politicians but they exercise great latitude in how those policies are carried out, or ignored.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Today is a significant date in the life for two luminaries of their political party.....one Republican, one Democrat.

1. John C. Frémont, in full John Charles Frémont, (born January 21, 1813, Savannah, Georgia, U.S.—died July 13, 1890, New York, New York), American military officer and an early explorer and mapmaker of the American West, who was one of the principal figures in opening up that region to settlement and was instrumental in the U.S. conquest and development of California. He was also a politician who ran unsuccessfully for the U.S. presidency in 1856 as the first candidate of the newly formed Republican Party.
Britannica.com
View attachment 362752

The very first candidate for the party formed for the specific purpose of ending slavery in the United States.






2. Nathan Bedford Forrest, (born July 13, 1821, near Chapel Hill, Tennessee, U.S.—died October 29, 1877, Memphis, Tennessee), Confederate cavalry commander in the American Civil War (1861–65) who was often described as a “born military genius.” His rule of action, “Get there first with the most men,” became one of the most often quoted statements of the war. Forrest is also one of the most controversial figures from the Civil War era. His command was responsible for the massacre of African American Union troops stationed at Fort Pillow, Tennessee, in April 1864, and he served as the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in the early years of Reconstruction.
Britannica.com
View attachment 362754


On Demcember 24, 1865, Forrest formed the military arm of the Democrat Party, the Invisible Empire of the Ku Klux Klan.

In his honor, Hollywood used his name and family association for the film, Forrest Gump.

I honor both dates.

Soooo.......are you saying that the KKK conforms with your views?


Be clear.

 

[alang1216]

Lenin was a soldier, why does Seattle have a statue of him in their town?

You know why.....

We all know why, and you're welcome:

Since Google is beyond your expertise, allow me:

• Venkov [the sculptor] intended the statue to function as a critique of communist oppression and depict Lenin as a violent man, with abstract rifles and flames on the statue, in contrast to the traditional depiction of Lenin holding a book.
• Much of the debate ignores the statue's private ownership and installation on private property, with the public and government having virtually no say in the matter.

 

[esalla]

Today is a significant date in the life for two luminaries of their political party.....one Republican, one Democrat.

1. John C. Frémont, in full John Charles Frémont, (born January 21, 1813, Savannah, Georgia, U.S.—died July 13, 1890, New York, New York), American military officer and an early explorer and mapmaker of the American West, who was one of the principal figures in opening up that region to settlement and was instrumental in the U.S. conquest and development of California. He was also a politician who ran unsuccessfully for the U.S. presidency in 1856 as the first candidate of the newly formed Republican Party.
Britannica.com
View attachment 362752

The very first candidate for the party formed for the specific purpose of ending slavery in the United States.






2. Nathan Bedford Forrest, (born July 13, 1821, near Chapel Hill, Tennessee, U.S.—died October 29, 1877, Memphis, Tennessee), Confederate cavalry commander in the American Civil War (1861–65) who was often described as a “born military genius.” His rule of action, “Get there first with the most men,” became one of the most often quoted statements of the war. Forrest is also one of the most controversial figures from the Civil War era. His command was responsible for the massacre of African American Union troops stationed at Fort Pillow, Tennessee, in April 1864, and he served as the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan in the early years of Reconstruction.
Britannica.com
View attachment 362754


On Demcember 24, 1865, Forrest formed the military arm of the Democrat Party, the Invisible Empire of the Ku Klux Klan.

In his honor, Hollywood used his name and family association for the film, Forrest Gump.

Kook00

 

[bdtex]

Soooo.......are you saying that the KKK conforms with your views?

No. They're both military veterans of the Civil War and I honor their service. I know what you were trying to do. That's clear. I didn't take the bait.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Soooo.......are you saying that the KKK conforms with your views?

No. They're both military veterans of the Civil War and I honor their service. I know what you were trying to do. That's clear. I didn't take the bait.

No 'bait.'

Your post wasn't clear.

 

[Ame®icano]

The OP celebrates May 1st, also known as known as the Day of the International Solidarity of Workers.

Let's remind all of how lacking in education you are.


May Day.....the holiday of Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.



Government school, an arm of the Left, attempts to pretend that there is even a 1° of difference between Communism and Nazism, or Fascism.

There isn't.

Those three and these three....Liberalism, Progressivism, and Socialism, all have the very same collectivist, statist aim for society.

The celebration of May Day gives a clue.

On this day in 1889, May Day—traditionally a celebration of the return of spring, marked by dancing around a Maypole—was first observed as a labour holiday, designated as such by the International Socialist Congress.
Britannica.com




One of those interesting facts that helps verify that Hitler was as much a Leftist as Stalin is that Hitler made MayDay his Nazi holiday, too.

The Nazis sought to gain support of workers by declaring May Day, a day celebrated by organized labour, to be a paid holiday and held celebrations on 1 May 1933 to honour German workers Life and Death in the Third ReichFirst Edition Edition
byPeter Fritzsche p. 45


The regime also insisted through propaganda that all Germans take part in the May Day celebrations in the hope that this would help break down class hostility between workers and burghers.[13]Songs in praise of labour and workers were played by state radio throughout May Day as well as an airshow in Berlin and fireworks.[13]Hitler spoke of workers as patriots who had built Germany's industrial strength and had honourably served in the war and claimed that they had been oppressed undereconomic liberalism.[14]Berliner Morgenpostthat had been strongly associated with the political left in the past praised the regime's May Day celebrations.[14]
Volksgemeinschaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here's Stalin's version....






And here, Communists and Fascists, together.




Stalin helped Mussolini set up his May Day celebration...

'The youngest prime minister in Italian history,....Mussolini was showered with accolades from sundry quarters.... Stalin supplied Mussolini with the plans of the May Day parades in Red Square,to help him polish up his Fascist pageants....He conquered Ethiopia, madea Pact of Steel with Germany, introduced anti-Jewish measures in 1938,came into the war as Hitler's very junior partner,..." The Mystery of Fascism by David Ramsay Steele



Socialist, fascists, Nazis, communists......Leftist all.
As are Progressives and Modern Liberals.





Really put your foot in your mouth,. huh?

Correct, and sweet as always.

Just as Hitler, Mussolini was also a socialist, who deviated from international socialism to fascism. FDR's 1933 National Industrial Recovery Act and its National Recovery Agency were modeled on Fascist Italy (the Blue Eagle thugs - struck down by the Supreme Court, nine votes to zero, in 1935). The National Industrial Recovery Act was widely recognized across the political spectrum at the time as a fascist project.

Contrary to the mythology it spread, Fascist Italy was not an economic success in the 1930s, and the “New Deal” (which was based upon in it) was not an economic success in the United States either. The massive government intervention actually started under President Herbert “The Forgotten Progressive” Hoover, and was continued and expanded under President Roosevelt. The United States had many massive credit bubble collapses from 1819 to 1921, and in each case the economy quickly recovered. But the credit bubble collapse of 1929 was not followed by a quick recovery, indeed ten years later the United States was still an economic mess with mass unemployment, thanks to the interventionist policies of both President Hoover and then President Roosevelt that prevented recovery for year after year.

When asked back then, FDR told reporters that he wasn’t a socialist, and that he wasn’t a capitalist. His policies were, however modeled after policies of Il Duce Benito Mussolini, the father of fascism. FDR’s own Interior Secretary Harold Ickes said: “What we are doing in this country are some of the same things that are being done in Russia and even some things that are being done in Hitler’s Germany.”

 

[PoliticalChic]

The OP celebrates May 1st, also known as known as the Day of the International Solidarity of Workers.

Let's remind all of how lacking in education you are.


May Day.....the holiday of Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.



Government school, an arm of the Left, attempts to pretend that there is even a 1° of difference between Communism and Nazism, or Fascism.

There isn't.

Those three and these three....Liberalism, Progressivism, and Socialism, all have the very same collectivist, statist aim for society.

The celebration of May Day gives a clue.

On this day in 1889, May Day—traditionally a celebration of the return of spring, marked by dancing around a Maypole—was first observed as a labour holiday, designated as such by the International Socialist Congress.
Britannica.com




One of those interesting facts that helps verify that Hitler was as much a Leftist as Stalin is that Hitler made MayDay his Nazi holiday, too.

The Nazis sought to gain support of workers by declaring May Day, a day celebrated by organized labour, to be a paid holiday and held celebrations on 1 May 1933 to honour German workers Life and Death in the Third ReichFirst Edition Edition
byPeter Fritzsche p. 45


The regime also insisted through propaganda that all Germans take part in the May Day celebrations in the hope that this would help break down class hostility between workers and burghers.[13]Songs in praise of labour and workers were played by state radio throughout May Day as well as an airshow in Berlin and fireworks.[13]Hitler spoke of workers as patriots who had built Germany's industrial strength and had honourably served in the war and claimed that they had been oppressed undereconomic liberalism.[14]Berliner Morgenpostthat had been strongly associated with the political left in the past praised the regime's May Day celebrations.[14]
Volksgemeinschaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here's Stalin's version....






And here, Communists and Fascists, together.




Stalin helped Mussolini set up his May Day celebration...

'The youngest prime minister in Italian history,....Mussolini was showered with accolades from sundry quarters.... Stalin supplied Mussolini with the plans of the May Day parades in Red Square,to help him polish up his Fascist pageants....He conquered Ethiopia, madea Pact of Steel with Germany, introduced anti-Jewish measures in 1938,came into the war as Hitler's very junior partner,..." The Mystery of Fascism by David Ramsay Steele



Socialist, fascists, Nazis, communists......Leftist all.
As are Progressives and Modern Liberals.





Really put your foot in your mouth,. huh?

Correct, and sweet as always.

Just as Hitler, Mussolini was also a socialist, who deviated from international socialism to fascism. FDR's 1933 National Industrial Recovery Act and its National Recovery Agency were modeled on Fascist Italy (the Blue Eagle thugs - struck down by the Supreme Court, nine votes to zero, in 1935). The National Industrial Recovery Act was widely recognized across the political spectrum at the time as a fascist project.

Contrary to the mythology it spread, Fascist Italy was not an economic success in the 1930s, and the “New Deal” (which was based upon in it) was not an economic success in the United States either. The massive government intervention actually started under President Herbert “The Forgotten Progressive” Hoover, and was continued and expanded under President Roosevelt. The United States had many massive credit bubble collapses from 1819 to 1921, and in each case the economy quickly recovered. But the credit bubble collapse of 1929 was not followed by a quick recovery, indeed ten years later the United States was still an economic mess with mass unemployment, thanks to the interventionist policies of both President Hoover and then President Roosevelt that prevented recovery for year after year.

When asked back then, FDR told reporters that he wasn’t a socialist, and that he wasn’t a capitalist. His policies were, however modeled after policies of Il Duce Benito Mussolini, the father of fascism. FDR’s own Interior Secretary Harold Ickes said: “What we are doing in this country are some of the same things that are being done in Russia and even some things that are being done in Hitler’s Germany.”

FDR wanted to swim with the other sharks.
He was a wannabe dictator, and came mighty close.


His view of the Constitution was the give-away.

In July 5, 1935, in a letter to Representative Samuel B. Hill of Washington, the President manifested his contempt for the Constitution. Hill was chairman of the subcommittee studying the Guffey-Vinson bill to regulate the coal industry: the purpose of the legislation was to re-establish, for the coal industry, the NRA code system which the Supreme Court had unanimously declared unconstitutional. Roosevelt wrote: "I hope your committee will not permit doubts as to constitutionality, however reasonable, to block the legislation.

This was the same Roosevelt who had sworn an oath on his 300 year old family Bible, to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 65.

 

[Ame®icano]

I guess Trump and the GOP, especially the GOP in Tennessee, are just being kind to the Dems when they keep putting up barriers to the removal of monuments to Forrest and other Confederate warriors.

Why does anybody attack a statue of a SOLDIER ?

Hitler was a soldier, would you object to a statue of him in your town?

Lenin was a soldier, why does Seattle have a statue of him in their town?

To be correct, Lenin was not a soldier. As a "revolutionary" he did wore an uniform, but he was never trained in any armed forces.

Why his statue in Seattle?

Well... Lenin started his political activism as a Social-Democrat, then evolved into socialist and communist. Seattle's Social-Democrats are trying to replicate his steps.

 

[Ame®icano]

The OP celebrates May 1st, also known as known as the Day of the International Solidarity of Workers.

Let's remind all of how lacking in education you are.


May Day.....the holiday of Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.



Government school, an arm of the Left, attempts to pretend that there is even a 1° of difference between Communism and Nazism, or Fascism.

There isn't.

Those three and these three....Liberalism, Progressivism, and Socialism, all have the very same collectivist, statist aim for society.

The celebration of May Day gives a clue.

On this day in 1889, May Day—traditionally a celebration of the return of spring, marked by dancing around a Maypole—was first observed as a labour holiday, designated as such by the International Socialist Congress.
Britannica.com




One of those interesting facts that helps verify that Hitler was as much a Leftist as Stalin is that Hitler made MayDay his Nazi holiday, too.

The Nazis sought to gain support of workers by declaring May Day, a day celebrated by organized labour, to be a paid holiday and held celebrations on 1 May 1933 to honour German workers Life and Death in the Third ReichFirst Edition Edition
byPeter Fritzsche p. 45


The regime also insisted through propaganda that all Germans take part in the May Day celebrations in the hope that this would help break down class hostility between workers and burghers.[13]Songs in praise of labour and workers were played by state radio throughout May Day as well as an airshow in Berlin and fireworks.[13]Hitler spoke of workers as patriots who had built Germany's industrial strength and had honourably served in the war and claimed that they had been oppressed undereconomic liberalism.[14]Berliner Morgenpostthat had been strongly associated with the political left in the past praised the regime's May Day celebrations.[14]
Volksgemeinschaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here's Stalin's version....






And here, Communists and Fascists, together.




Stalin helped Mussolini set up his May Day celebration...

'The youngest prime minister in Italian history,....Mussolini was showered with accolades from sundry quarters.... Stalin supplied Mussolini with the plans of the May Day parades in Red Square,to help him polish up his Fascist pageants....He conquered Ethiopia, madea Pact of Steel with Germany, introduced anti-Jewish measures in 1938,came into the war as Hitler's very junior partner,..." The Mystery of Fascism by David Ramsay Steele



Socialist, fascists, Nazis, communists......Leftist all.
As are Progressives and Modern Liberals.





Really put your foot in your mouth,. huh?

Correct, and sweet as always.

Just as Hitler, Mussolini was also a socialist, who deviated from international socialism to fascism. FDR's 1933 National Industrial Recovery Act and its National Recovery Agency were modeled on Fascist Italy (the Blue Eagle thugs - struck down by the Supreme Court, nine votes to zero, in 1935). The National Industrial Recovery Act was widely recognized across the political spectrum at the time as a fascist project.

Contrary to the mythology it spread, Fascist Italy was not an economic success in the 1930s, and the “New Deal” (which was based upon in it) was not an economic success in the United States either. The massive government intervention actually started under President Herbert “The Forgotten Progressive” Hoover, and was continued and expanded under President Roosevelt. The United States had many massive credit bubble collapses from 1819 to 1921, and in each case the economy quickly recovered. But the credit bubble collapse of 1929 was not followed by a quick recovery, indeed ten years later the United States was still an economic mess with mass unemployment, thanks to the interventionist policies of both President Hoover and then President Roosevelt that prevented recovery for year after year.

When asked back then, FDR told reporters that he wasn’t a socialist, and that he wasn’t a capitalist. His policies were, however modeled after policies of Il Duce Benito Mussolini, the father of fascism. FDR’s own Interior Secretary Harold Ickes said: “What we are doing in this country are some of the same things that are being done in Russia and even some things that are being done in Hitler’s Germany.”

FDR wanted to swim with the other sharks.
He was a wannabe dictator, and came mighty close.


His view of the Constitution was the give-away.

In July 5, 1935, in a letter to Representative Samuel B. Hill of Washington, the President manifested his contempt for the Constitution. Hill was chairman of the subcommittee studying the Guffey-Vinson bill to regulate the coal industry: the purpose of the legislation was to re-establish, for the coal industry, the NRA code system which the Supreme Court had unanimously declared unconstitutional. Roosevelt wrote: "I hope your committee will not permit doubts as to constitutionality, however reasonable, to block the legislation.

This was the same Roosevelt who had sworn an oath on his 300 year old family Bible, to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 65.

In Communism industries are nationalized in the typical "we take it from you" socialist way. Mussolini’s fascism was corporatism, or state-run capitalism. FDR regarded the NRA as the most important of his New Deal programs, directly modeled on Italian fascism. It empowered the federal government to establish coalitions of labor and management in every industry to set production targets, wages, prices and even maximum and minimum working hours. These arrangements would be reviewed by a government run Industrial Advisory Board answerable to FDR himself.

The NRA was designed to as they said "eliminate the anarchy of the competitive system". Just as fascist had their propaganda pamphlet “The Structure of the Corporate State,” FDR's NRA issued their own brochure titled “Capitalism and Labor Under Fascism” which acknowledged that the fascist principles are very similar to those which have been evolving FDR's principles.

FDR's biggest problem at the time is that individual entrepreneurs, such as Will Kellogg and Henry Ford, refused to sign on his policies. They were threatened by boycott’s. They were threatened by unions, and they were threatened by Roosevelt who made it clear that refusal to endorse NRA codes would mean that businesses would be denied government contracts, which was flat out unconstitutional. But as one historian put it, the Blue Eagle campaign was based on "voluntary cooperation", but those who did not volunteer to cooperate were to be forced into participation. It's the exactly the same thing that today's socialists are doing.

In 1933, Americans who did not publicly support the Blue Eagle campaign invited the threat of social ostracism or economic boycott. Germans who in the Autumn of that same year did not hang swastikas from their windows, greet their fellow citizens with “Heil Hitler,” or wear an emblem on their lapels identifying them as Winter Relief contributors could expect to receive significantly more severe form of punishment. Nonetheless, it is impossible to ignore the similarity in approach for encouraging conformity. Today's fascists are compelling you to write "black lives matter" on your street, or on your car, and to submit to their will, or you will be punished, and your business destroyed.