Where do you fall in the end to end encryption debate?

SavannahMann

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Nov 16, 2016
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Facebook Messenger and Instagram Messenger will soon be going with a new encryption system. This system will be end to end encryption. That means when you click the send button, the text or whatever you are sending is encrypted at your device and then decrypted at the recipient. It can’t be read between point A and B. Supposedly.


One of the things I noticed when the National Security Letter were a thing in the original Patriot Act was how they were never actually used to investigate any terrorists. They were used when the Feds didn’t have enough evidence for a Warrant and were just fishing.

When the FBI was questioned about this they defended it claiming they were stopping pedophiles. The FBI didn’t want to talk about how the tool they claimed they needed to stop terrorists was never used on actual terrorists.

When the NSL’s were finally abolished. The Congress made it a law that companies with messenger systems had to screen those messages for possible illegal activity. For the children. Any suspicious messages were forwarded to the appropriate agencies in each country.

Those nations are now demanding that Facebook abandon this encryption plan.

Facebook says that most people are switching to other messenger systems with similar encryption. So they will go ahead and switch but continue monitoring accounts for child predators.

So my questions are as follows. First. Do you really believe that nobody can read your messages in an end to end system? I personally think that if such a system existed the NSA would torture the creators until they gave up the back doors or installed back doors to allow them to read messages just as before.

Second. Why is it that whenever privacy is discussed it is vital we surrender it to protect the children?

Lastly. How long before people stop buying the for the children propaganda?
 
if the NSA has a practical quantum super computer none of that matters anyway.
 
if the NSA has a practical quantum super computer none of that matters anyway.

Not yet ... but maybe closer than you think ... the NSA can break these systems, this is paraphrasing, not true encryption ... so breaking the codes is child's play for the NSA ... just with today's computer technology, this takes weeks, not months ...

I checked a few years ago ... DoD regulation still prohibit any internet encryption of any kind for military classified messages ... whereas the USPS is used for "confidential" information ... just not Firefox ...

Military encryption requires the key and cipher be transmitted by different means ... we got our key from the proverbial security officer with a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist ... (except we handled all Southern Commands COMSEC needs so our key came by C-141 load, God knows the days and weeks and months I spent page counting) ...
 
Facebook Messenger and Instagram Messenger will soon be going with a new encryption system. This system will be end to end encryption. That means when you click the send button, the text or whatever you are sending is encrypted at your device and then decrypted at the recipient. It can’t be read between point A and B. Supposedly.


One of the things I noticed when the National Security Letter were a thing in the original Patriot Act was how they were never actually used to investigate any terrorists. They were used when the Feds didn’t have enough evidence for a Warrant and were just fishing.

When the FBI was questioned about this they defended it claiming they were stopping pedophiles. The FBI didn’t want to talk about how the tool they claimed they needed to stop terrorists was never used on actual terrorists.

When the NSL’s were finally abolished. The Congress made it a law that companies with messenger systems had to screen those messages for possible illegal activity. For the children. Any suspicious messages were forwarded to the appropriate agencies in each country.

Those nations are now demanding that Facebook abandon this encryption plan.

Facebook says that most people are switching to other messenger systems with similar encryption. So they will go ahead and switch but continue monitoring accounts for child predators.

So my questions are as follows. First. Do you really believe that nobody can read your messages in an end to end system? I personally think that if such a system existed the NSA would torture the creators until they gave up the back doors or installed back doors to allow them to read messages just as before.

Second. Why is it that whenever privacy is discussed it is vital we surrender it to protect the children?

Lastly. How long before people stop buying the for the children propaganda?

Well first the law requires telcom providers to have back door access to communications This would just make it more likely they would deem facebook a utility to force the back door, and then invite the other regulations. Anyway, now I don't think they will create a system they can't get in to mine data for their marketing, so I doubt they will do true end to end encryption. That said, as badly as Threads reportedly is about mining people's cell phones, I wouldn't trust a damn thing that Facebook says.
 
Not yet ... but maybe closer than you think ... the NSA can break these systems, this is paraphrasing, not true encryption ... so breaking the codes is child's play for the NSA ... just with today's computer technology, this takes weeks, not months ...

I checked a few years ago ... DoD regulation still prohibit any internet encryption of any kind for military classified messages ... whereas the USPS is used for "confidential" information ... just not Firefox ...

Military encryption requires the key and cipher be transmitted by different means ... we got our key from the proverbial security officer with a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist ... (except we handled all Southern Commands COMSEC needs so our key came by C-141 load, God knows the days and weeks and months I spent page counting) ...
I don't know a lot about all that but I am certain we now live in a world where the only sure way to keep a secret is to keep it to yourself.
 
Not yet ... but maybe closer than you think ... the NSA can break these systems, this is paraphrasing, not true encryption ... so breaking the codes is child's play for the NSA ... just with today's computer technology, this takes weeks, not months ...

I checked a few years ago ... DoD regulation still prohibit any internet encryption of any kind for military classified messages ... whereas the USPS is used for "confidential" information ... just not Firefox ...

Military encryption requires the key and cipher be transmitted by different means ... we got our key from the proverbial security officer with a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist ... (except we handled all Southern Commands COMSEC needs so our key came by C-141 load, God knows the days and weeks and months I spent page counting) ...

That is because of a flaw with the Diffie-Hellman key exchange implementation that leaves most E2EE systems using the same couple really big prime numbers as their anchor. It has allowed the NSA to break through most VPN and E2EE systems. Basically everybody on a providers encryption systems are using some variation of the same couple-three keys. It reduces the workload considerably. Supposedly an overseas company we use at work cannot read a thing we put on their servers, nor can they decipher end to end over their system, but I have my doubts. Most of it is just TLS communication anyway. E2EE is kind of a pain, or at least it was when we were doing it through the microsoft labyrinth. I haven't really fooled with it much since we switched. As long as the email originates and ends on the hosts system, we don't need to go through extra steps if it has E2EE.
 
I remember a time when I might have gave a shit as far as terrorist communication goes.

That said given the number of potential terrorists that have just walked across the border under Uncle RICO's so-called leadership and the likes of homegrown Antifa/BLM terrorists that go largely unpunished for their organized crimes it's hard to get all worked-up about encryption.

Any pretense of "protecting the country" went out the window better than two years ago when Uncle RICO schlepped into the WH.
 
I don't know a lot about all that but I am certain we now live in a world where the only sure way to keep a secret is to keep it to yourself.

Who needs to know your personal secrets? ... OTOP, who needs to know military secrets? ... quite a bit of difference there ...

The NSA does NOT want to know you ... they are not reading your e-mails ... the whole "spy agency" is just a front, a cover, something to disguise what they really do ... "banks of super-computers decrypting enemy communications?" ... like in James Bond movies? ... seriously? ... too easy, too conventional, gotta ask what are they really up to ... just saying ...
 
Who needs to know your personal secrets? ... OTOP, who needs to know military secrets? ... quite a bit of difference there ...

The NSA does NOT want to know you ... they are not reading your e-mails ... the whole "spy agency" is just a front, a cover, something to disguise what they really do ... "banks of super-computers decrypting enemy communications?" ... like in James Bond movies? ... seriously? ... too easy, too conventional, gotta ask what are they really up to ... just saying ...

That is an interesting read on the situation. Curiously it isn’t supported by evidence.



Now the NSA swears they have stopped. But interestingly enough they didn’t cut spending. I personally believe it is the Hoover Black Bag Job all over again.

For those who don’t know. Fred Cook exposed the FBI’s habit of breaking and entering homes and offices to get information or evidence without a warrant. These were called Black Bag Jobs. When exposed the FBI swore to Congress that the FBI would never again do another Black Bag Job. The reality was that they kept breaking in. Only now they were called FBI Specials. When those were exposed to the light of day, the FBI got the FISA court to allow them to investigate threats to America.

Every time one of these programs are exposed. They change the name and keep on going.
 

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