Where did we Get the Idea that Agencies Created by Congress to be Under the Executive Branch are Supposed to be Independent?

[Seymour Flops]

I thought the idea was for the President to lead the agencies, through his appointees, for Congress to have oversight over these agencies through information gathering and control of the purse strings, and for the courts to be able to step in when these agencies violate the Constitution.

That seems a lot better than having a bunch of unelected bureaucrats run the government, and refuse to obey the president, be accountable to Congress, or follow USSC rulings.

What does "independent" even mean when it comes to a government agency?

It seems that when one side or another says, "the __________ agency should be independent," it is because that agency wants to do something the policial side favors, but is rejected by the president, the congress, or the courts.

I don't believe that the independence of federal agencies is called for in the Constitution. Is there a statute that says calls for it? Do statutes establishing particular agencies mention whether and to what extent they will be independent?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I thought the idea was for the President to lead the agencies, through his appointees, for Congress to have oversight over these agencies through information gathering and control of the purse strings, and for the courts to be able to step in when these agencies violate the Constitution.

That seems a lot better than having a bunch of unelected bureaucrats run the government, and refuse to obey the president, be accountable to Congress, or follow USSC rulings.

What does "independent" even mean when it comes to a government agency?

It seems that when one side or another says, "the __________ agency should be independent," it is because that agency wants to do something the policial side favors, but is rejected by the president, the congress, or the courts.

I don't believe that the independence of federal agencies is called for in the Constitution. Is there a statute that says calls for it? Do statutes establishing particular agencies mention whether and to what extent they will be independent?

I think it was due to common sense ethics, because presidents are not emperors.

 

[BackAgain]

I thought the idea was for the President to lead the agencies, through his appointees, for Congress to have oversight over these agencies through information gathering and control of the purse strings, and for the courts to be able to step in when these agencies violate the Constitution.

That seems a lot better than having a bunch of unelected bureaucrats run the government, and refuse to obey the president, be accountable to Congress, or follow USSC rulings.

What does "independent" even mean when it comes to a government agency?

It seems that when one side or another says, "the __________ agency should be independent," it is because that agency wants to do something the policial side favors, but is rejected by the president, the congress, or the courts.

I don't believe that the independence of federal agencies is called for in the Constitution. Is there a statute that says calls for it? Do statutes establishing particular agencies mention whether and to what extent they will be independent?

The Court has wrestled a bit with such legislative constraints on the President’s constitutional authority to run the Executive Branch.

I don’t believe it is easily summarized without losing a little clarity and precision, but I do believe it is generally fair to put it like this:

The court seems to be saying that although Congress cannot validly limit the President’s ability to manage the Executive Branch (Myers v. United States, 1926) in general, it can somewhat limit his unilateral authority for certain specific matters, like firing certain employees. It seems to come down to whether the Department in question is an “independent regulatory agency.” Humphrey’s Executor (1936).

So, in firing some of the an Inspectors General, the question is WHETHER those inspectors General constitute “independent regulatory agencies.”

It appears that they are NOT.

SO, President Trump sure seems to be acting in a Constitutional manner.

 

[jackflash]

I thought the idea was for the President to lead the agencies, through his appointees, for Congress to have oversight over these agencies through information gathering and control of the purse strings, and for the courts to be able to step in when these agencies violate the Constitution.

That seems a lot better than having a bunch of unelected bureaucrats run the government, and refuse to obey the president, be accountable to Congress, or follow USSC rulings.

What does "independent" even mean when it comes to a government agency?

It seems that when one side or another says, "the __________ agency should be independent," it is because that agency wants to do something the policial side favors, but is rejected by the president, the congress, or the courts.

I don't believe that the independence of federal agencies is called for in the Constitution. Is there a statute that says calls for it? Do statutes establishing particular agencies mention whether and to what extent they will be independent?

"A divided house cannot stand." If/when a constituency becomes divided politically and/or morally the "fabric"(e.g. Constitution) becomes a target for political manipulation. With the exception of the Egyptian empire all other empires/great nations collapsed due to a divided or shattered constituency. This is WHY definable/enforceable "BORDERS" are of paramount importance to the survival of a constituency for as the old adage says, "Birds Of A Feather Flock Together." What U R witnessing in our America today with the ideology driven infighting, power plays & outright shenanigans is just a continuation of what has plagued humanity from the beginning. With the current state of humanities human condition(human nature) don't look for any improvement in the political arena any time soon.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Americans love being indepdendent. Our most patriotic holiday is called "Independence Day." So "Independent Agencies," has an appealing ring.

But we want individuals, and families to be independent, not for our government to be independent of us, and our elected representatives. That would be foolhardy.

"Independence" for government agencies is like "academic freedom." We love it as long as the agency or educator is fighting to be able to do what we like. It's a different story when they want to do something we don't.

Criticize a school librarian for stocking "Lawn Boy" or some other pedophile book targeted at teens and the left scream for "academic freedom." Let that same librarian decide that the left was wrong to remove "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," and the left will shriek "How dare she make a decision like that on her own!"

Taxpayers pay for school libraries. So, if a book offends the taxpayers and they petitition their school board to remove it, out it will come. I don't care if it's "Heather has Two Mommies" or "The Art of the Deal," if the local school board wants it out, it's out, and the librarian's opinion can be expressed at the ballot box like everyone else.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

DOJ has been traditionally independent of the Office of the President.

 

[Seymour Flops]

DOJ has been traditionally independent of the Office of the President.

So, who is in charge of them?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

So, who is in charge of them?

AG

 

[Seymour Flops]

AG

Can the president fire her?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Can the president fire her?

Means nothing because the DOJ is not the President's personal law firm but only the nations.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Means nothing because the DOJ is not the President's personal law firm but only the nations.

Off-topic Trump derangement.

The president can fire her, so she is not independent, and therefore neither is the department of justice.

“Independent agencies” is a myth created by people who want to make sure that Obama’s plan to flood the agencies with political ideologues bears fruit.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Off-topic Trump derangement. The president can fire her, so she is not independent, and therefore neither is the department of justice.“Independent agencies” is a myth created by people who want to make sure that Obama’s plan to flood the agencies with political ideologues bears fruit.

On-topic Trump personality disorder. The President has no authority to interfere with or direct cases.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Means nothing because the DOJ is not the President's personal law firm but only the nations.

 

[Seymour Flops]

On-topic Trump personality disorder. The President has no authority to interfere with or direct cases.

Article II vests the president with the executive power of the United States.

Federal prosecutors have only the power that the executive, which is the President, grants them and, where required, the Senate consents.

This is an important protection for Americans against rogue federal prosecutors.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Article II vests the president with the executive power of the United States.

Federal prosecutors have only the power that the executive, which is the President, grants them and, where required, the Senate consents.

This is an important protection for Americans against rogue federal prosecutors.

You may think so. In reality, that is not how the DOJ runs.

Tough, even Jeff Sessions told Trump "no" as did Bill Barr.

 

[martybegan]

I think it was due to common sense ethics, because presidents are not emperors.

Actually federal bureaucrats aren't supposed to be like the feudal knights of old, with their own little fiefdoms.

Anyone who works for the executive branch owes all of their powers to the elected source of said powers, the sitting President.

 

[martybegan]

You may think so. In reality, that is not how the DOJ runs.

Tough, even Jeff Sessions told Trump "no" as did Bill Barr.

Because they have been doing it wrong as well.

Constitutionally, where does it say the DOJ is independent of the President?

 

[progressive hunter]

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Because they have been doing it wrong as well.

Constitutionally, where does it say the DOJ is independent of the President?

Write the President then and the AGs.

 

[martybegan]

Write the President then and the AGs.

Can't answer the question, can ya?