When the Right is Wrong the Left is Right

[David2004]

More and more American people believed that President Bush and his administration told untruth about going to War in Iraq. Most everything the far left said about the out come of the Iraq War is coming true today. The Neocons the architects of the Iraq War and the religious right the main voting block supporting the Iraqi War will blame the left when they lose the war in Iraq. The first steps are being taken by the extreme right to separate the War on Terror from the War in Iraq. Today a Civil War is going on in Iraq that the United States and British started with their military invasion. The situation on the ground is getting worst for most of the people in Iraq with the exception in the North in the Kurdish section of Iraq. Today in Iraq the unemployment is still over 40% with over 25 thousand innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed.

Over 18 hundred American soldiers killed in Iraq and over 50 thousand Iraqi fighters killed. The recruitment of new soldiers is down in America and the recruitment of Iraqi fighters is on the increase by most accounts. Before the Iraq War began the Central Intelligence Agencies and the Joint Chief of Staff were advising against militarily taking over Iraq because of the very problems in Iraq today. It is all part of the public record in their testimony before Congress leading up to the invasion of Iraq. The lies and political miss calculations the Bush Administration made in going to war in Iraq, will go down in history as one of America greatest blunders.

What is so upsetting to so many people on the left that were against the Iraq War before it began. Is the rhetoric of many of the religious self-righteous extremists in America. United against a women’s Right to Choose while supporting every war America has fought in the name of God. Who gave the American religious right the divine power to pass judgment over the people of the world and their neighbors to live up to their standards, religious and political beliefs.

Yes there are many people in America who believe that their nation is on the wrong track going the wrong way. Whether it is the 2 trillion dollars the Bush Administration has added to the National Debt in less than five years with a Congress and Senate controlled by the Republicans or the lies told about going to War in Iraq. As many innocent Muslims have paid a high price for America’s reaction to 9-11 so too will many innocent American pay a high price for America’s War in Iraq. Where the American people are divided on the War of Iraq most of the people in the Muslim world are opposes to the War in Iraq.

 

[move_right]

as far as the left wingers opposing the war in IRAQ that's fine. they can believe whatever they want. The principal behind it all was good. It was proper and well thought. the execution sucked. Bush is just no good at what he does. that's all. He wanted the best for the country but didn't know how to make it happen.

If it weren't for all the political bullshit like the geneva convention and what not, we could have gone over there and really kicked ass. This is coming from a former United States Marine whom served a solid year and half in IRAQ; most of it in the middle of full on combat. I was there. I know what we can do, but we're not doing it. I believe in a "you bomb us, we bomb you" policy. I don't care if we kill innocent people. That's not my problem. on 9/11 ALL of our damage was innocent people. who cares about them? they aren't playing by the rules, why should we? we can sit here all we want and say, "well, if they blow us up, we can't just blow them up... we aren't going to take innocent lives like they do". fuck that. we downplay our battleplan to accomodate fairness and all that happens is we get fucked. fairness turned us into the melting pot of america. great work! anyone of any race can do whatever the hell they want in america! no wonder other countries take advantage of us. I say an eye for an eye.


There's a formula to victory. There's a way to complete every mission you launch. There's a way to finish what someone else started and benefit yourself in the end. Bush just has no clue how. What a shame.

 

[cee_em_bee]

People who even identify themselves as either right wing or left wing are wrong from the start.

 

[KarlMarx]

More and more American people believed that President Bush and his administration told untruth about going to War in Iraq. Most everything the far left said about the out come of the Iraq War is coming true today. The Neocons the architects of the Iraq War and the religious right the main voting block supporting the Iraqi War will blame the left when they lose the war in Iraq. The first steps are being taken by the extreme right to separate the War on Terror from the War in Iraq. Today a Civil War is going on in Iraq that the United States and British started with their military invasion. The situation on the ground is getting worst for most of the people in Iraq with the exception in the North in the Kurdish section of Iraq. Today in Iraq the unemployment is still over 40% with over 25 thousand innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed.

Over 18 hundred American soldiers killed in Iraq and over 50 thousand Iraqi fighters killed. The recruitment of new soldiers is down in America and the recruitment of Iraqi fighters is on the increase by most accounts. Before the Iraq War began the Central Intelligence Agencies and the Joint Chief of Staff were advising against militarily taking over Iraq because of the very problems in Iraq today. It is all part of the public record in their testimony before Congress leading up to the invasion of Iraq. The lies and political miss calculations the Bush Administration made in going to war in Iraq, will go down in history as one of America greatest blunders.

What is so upsetting to so many people on the left that were against the Iraq War before it began. Is the rhetoric of many of the religious self-righteous extremists in America. United against a women’s Right to Choose while supporting every war America has fought in the name of God. Who gave the American religious right the divine power to pass judgment over the people of the world and their neighbors to live up to their standards, religious and political beliefs.

Yes there are many people in America who believe that their nation is on the wrong track going the wrong way. Whether it is the 2 trillion dollars the Bush Administration has added to the National Debt in less than five years with a Congress and Senate controlled by the Republicans or the lies told about going to War in Iraq. As many innocent Muslims have paid a high price for America’s reaction to 9-11 so too will many innocent American pay a high price for America’s War in Iraq. Where the American people are divided on the War of Iraq most of the people in the Muslim world are opposes to the War in Iraq.

Boy.... you guys on the Left know how to perseverate..... perhaps you ought to check into treatment options for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder....

Like you could actually care about the troops in Iraq and the National Debt, that's a joke. The only thing lefties like you care about is making your holier-than-thou pronouncements and posturing to make yourselves look good.

For the National Debt.... yes, the Bush Administration added a lot to the debt, most of it went for programs endorsed by Ted Kennedy and the Democrats in Congress, not for the defense of the United States or for the war in Iraq.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about the Muslim World's opinion of us. They hate us, regardless of what we do for them. As far as I'm concerned, they can go to hell and take their whore mothers with them. And here's a good example.... last year, a tsunami ripped through mostly Muslim countries e.g. Sumatra and the people of the United States poured their hearts out and gave record amounts of money to help these people. Now, one of the worst hurricanes in recorded history flattens an American city and who is there to help us? No one, at least no one Muslim. All the Muslims do is make statements like "Allah is punishing America". It was American technology, American companies and Americans going to the Middle East that allowed those countries to harvest the oil trapped under its barren sands. And what have those countries done with the hundreds of billions that they got with those oil dollars? Instead of building highways and roads, their kings have built palaces for themselves, instead of improving the lot of their people, they've squandered their money on a playboy jet set life style. Instead of educating their people those towel headed boobs sent billions to Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad so that innocent people could be killed and maimed.

More innocent Muslims have died at the hands of their fellow Muslims than all at the hands of our troops (and I don't consider Saddam's Republican Guard, "insurgents" trying to kill our troops to be innocent).

The Muslim world, which gave us Algebra, celestial navigation, and literature has produced nothing of any value for the past several hundred years. Instead the Muslim world is stuck in the Dark Ages and is trying its damnedest to ensure that the rest of the world joins them. The only thing that the Muslim world has invented in the past 500 years has been the bomb belt.

Frankly all the Left cares about is to be freed of its duties as citizens but at the same time enjoy the blessings of liberty. They don't want to be bothered with championing democracy or defending our country. The Left is more concerned with scoring dope, engaging in sexual perversion (and making damned sure that it's made a right), lying to the rest of us to advance their agenda (and by doing so, ensure that they will remain in power and taxpayer money will finance their socialist lunacy and ensure that they have jobs to pay for their partying) and basically leading a life that is centered around them and nobody else but them.

The only time that the Left cares about people is when they get a chance to beat their chests in public and make sanctimonious pronouncements. I'm sure that if New Orleans were inhabited only by Christian Fundamentalists when Hurricane Katrina struck, the Left wouldn't be lifting a finger to help and, in fact, they would be making statements like "God is punishing New Orleans for being homophobic and opposing a woman's right to choose".

 

[sitarro]

Well put Karl,
I would have given that asswipe Davy2004 some negative reps but that is probably what he wants. What amazes me is how a dick like that would be happy to have a mass murderer like Hussein back in power killing and torturing more people. He ignores the worst manmade ecological disaster of all time that his buddy Saddam caused when he set over 700 oil fields on fire . Some burned for 9 MONTHS! Millions of gallons of crude oil polluted the surrounding areas and the black cloud changed the climate for thousands of miles. This wonderful guy Saddam also drained the marshlands of Southern Iraq to punish the marsh Arabs who have depended on these waters for centuries, the coalition has brought that life sustaining water back to that historic area.
Clowns like Davy have no idea what hypocritical fools they are and may never grow up to find out that their simpleton ideas are just that, childlike thoughts that are worthless in a very dangerous world of very evil men.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I don't care if we kill innocent people. That's not my problem. on 9/11 ALL of our damage was innocent people. who cares about them? they aren't playing by the rules, why should we?

I agree. Let's repeal all of our laws too. If murderers and rapists aren't going to abide by them, why should we? Everyone for themselves.

Is the higher road no longer viewed as a viable option?

fairness turned us into the melting pot of america. great work! anyone of any race can do whatever the hell they want in america!

What exactly are you implying with this statement?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

More and more American people believed that President Bush and his administration told untruth about going to War in Iraq. Most everything the far left said about the out come of the Iraq War is coming true today. The Neocons the architects of the Iraq War and the religious right the main voting block supporting the Iraqi War will blame the left when they lose the war in Iraq. The first steps are being taken by the extreme right to separate the War on Terror from the War in Iraq. Today a Civil War is going on in Iraq that the United States and British started with their military invasion. The situation on the ground is getting worst for most of the people in Iraq with the exception in the North in the Kurdish section of Iraq. Today in Iraq the unemployment is still over 40% with over 25 thousand innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed.

Over 18 hundred American soldiers killed in Iraq and over 50 thousand Iraqi fighters killed. The recruitment of new soldiers is down in America and the recruitment of Iraqi fighters is on the increase by most accounts. Before the Iraq War began the Central Intelligence Agencies and the Joint Chief of Staff were advising against militarily taking over Iraq because of the very problems in Iraq today. It is all part of the public record in their testimony before Congress leading up to the invasion of Iraq. The lies and political miss calculations the Bush Administration made in going to war in Iraq, will go down in history as one of America greatest blunders.

What is so upsetting to so many people on the left that were against the Iraq War before it began. Is the rhetoric of many of the religious self-righteous extremists in America. United against a women’s Right to Choose while supporting every war America has fought in the name of God. Who gave the American religious right the divine power to pass judgment over the people of the world and their neighbors to live up to their standards, religious and political beliefs.

Yes there are many people in America who believe that their nation is on the wrong track going the wrong way. Whether it is the 2 trillion dollars the Bush Administration has added to the National Debt in less than five years with a Congress and Senate controlled by the Republicans or the lies told about going to War in Iraq. As many innocent Muslims have paid a high price for America’s reaction to 9-11 so too will many innocent American pay a high price for America’s War in Iraq. Where the American people are divided on the War of Iraq most of the people in the Muslim world are opposes to the War in Iraq.

You do more damage than you do good.

Mainly because this did no good.

Perhaps if you used a few more Michael Moore buzzwords...

 

[The ClayTaurus]

And here's a good example.... last year, a tsunami ripped through mostly Muslim countries e.g. Sumatra and the people of the United States poured their hearts out and gave record amounts of money to help these people. Now, one of the worst hurricanes in recorded history flattens an American city and who is there to help us? No one, at least no one Muslim. All the Muslims do is make statements like "Allah is punishing America".

This isn't really true. Muslim nations have pledged support in the wake of hurricane Katrina. And just like the hardline Muslims yell that it's all our fault, the hard line Christians were saying the tsunami was all their fault.

I'm not sympathizing with the thread starter, but these vicious rebuttals don't seem that different whether from the left or the right: intense hatred for the other side.

 

[theHawk]

Well put Karl,
I would have given that asswipe Davy2004 some negative reps but that is probably what he wants. What amazes me is how a dick like that would be happy to have a mass murderer like Hussein back in power killing and torturing more people. He ignores the worst manmade ecological disaster of all time that his buddy Saddam caused when he set over 700 oil fields on fire . Some burned for 9 MONTHS! Millions of gallons of crude oil polluted the surrounding areas and the black cloud changed the climate for thousands of miles. This wonderful guy Saddam also drained the marshlands of Southern Iraq to punish the marsh Arabs who have depended on these waters for centuries, the coalition has brought that life sustaining water back to that historic area.
Clowns like Davy have no idea what hypocritical fools they are and may never grow up to find out that their simpleton ideas are just that, childlike thoughts that are worthless in a very dangerous world of very evil men.

Exactly, all these liberals do is critisize and never offer any alternative action for dealing with Saddam. They'll bitch about how many 'innocent' Iraqis have died since the war but don't say a peep about all the people that died while he was in power. I didn't like the idea of invading and going to war any more than you liberals, but if you had a better idea at the time why didn't we hear it?

 

[007]

I agree. Let's repeal all of our laws too. If murderers and rapists aren't going to abide by them, why should we? Everyone for themselves.

Maybe that's what we should do for our military. Turn them loose to do whatever the hell they want. Maybe then we'd get some respect. Since "rules of engagement" seem to only apply to our troops. I mean the rotten dogs that call themselves terrorists can do whatever the hell they want. Why shouldn't we?

Now if you're going to give me the pat, "that would make us no better than them" answer, just say no. I'll understand. But if you have a more interesting response, lets hear it.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Maybe that's what we should do for our military. Turn them loose to do whatever the hell they want. Maybe then we'd get some respect. Since "rules of engagement" seem to only apply to our troops. I mean the rotten dogs that call themselves terrorists can do whatever the hell they want. Why shouldn't we?

Now if you're going to give me the pat, "that would make us no better than them" answer, just say no. I'll understand. But if you have a more interesting response, lets hear it.

Well, there's that, but there's also the fact that you can't teach a mentally challenged child that stealing is wrong by constantly stealing from him. Was that interesting enough?

 

[dilloduck]

Well, there's that, but there's also the fact that you can't teach a mentally challenged child that stealing is wrong by constantly stealing from him. Was that interesting enough?

Interesting but its a bit of a silly comparison. You can't do any teaching until the students are done trying to kill the teacher.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Interesting but its a bit of a silly comparison. You can't do any teaching until the students are done trying to kill the teacher.

Ok, so, what rules would you like us to be able to break that the terrorists are breaking. I'd like to get into something specific.

 

[no1tovote4]

Interesting but its a bit of a silly comparison. You can't do any teaching until the students are done trying to kill the teacher.

Have you ever respected and followed anybody willingly that didn't lead by example? Have lessons forced on you by those that say, "Do as I say, not as I do!" ever stuck with you for longer than you were in the presence of such people?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Have you ever respected and followed anybody willingly that didn't lead by example? Have lessons forced on you by those that say, "Do as I say, not as I do!" ever stuck with you for longer than you were in the presence of such people?

Good point.

Furthermore, when this whole thing subsides, it's a question if we want to be remembered as winning by using their own tactics, or by using ours. I'd hate to somehow have a terrorist think that the only reason we won is because we had to resort to fighting like they do. I want complete victory for our side; they don't even deserve a moral victory. I want them to know we beat them on our terms, not theirs.

 

[dilloduck]

Have you ever respected and followed anybody willingly that didn't lead by example? Have lessons forced on you by those that say, "Do as I say, not as I do!" ever stuck with you for longer than you were in the presence of such people?

No one ever taught me a damn thing until they could get me to pay attention.
How do you get someones' attention who is busy shooting at you?

 

[no1tovote4]

No one ever taught me a damn thing until they could get me to pay attention.
How do you get someones' attention who is busy shooting at you?

There is nothing wrong with shooting back when you are being shot at. However once they are captured how does it help if we abandon our beliefs and fall into a "If they do it so should we!" position? One can get their attention without taking to tactics that are not within our principles. We are so much more powerful militarily than they we could get their attention without too much trouble and without giving up on principle.

 

[Hobbit]

It's kinda like winning a game of Starcraft when the other guy is hacking. It's just that much sweeter a victory.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

It's kinda like winning a game of Starcraft when the other guy is hacking. It's just that much sweeter a victory.

Precisely

 

[dilloduck]

Ok, so, what rules would you like us to be able to break that the terrorists are breaking. I'd like to get into something specific.

None of them---just don't try to tell me we can teach them anything until we have killed all the ones who dont want to learn. We are trying to teach them military and police tactics right now and what do the terrorists do? Kill the students. Our goal is not to teach them how to be killers yet our troops WILL have to kill to make education of the rest possible.

And lets make one thing clear here----all and I mean ALL the killing could stop the very second that the terrorists are willing to join civilization, learn diplomacy and tolerate other ideologies.