Zone1 When do you think slavery would have ended in the United States if we had no Civil War.

[2aguy]

Total rubbish. 'Slavery' is just promoted because Yankees know it looks bad that they started a Civil War over their own greed and financial interests.

The first shots fired were by the democrats, not the republicans....Lincoln hadn't even taken the oath of office when the democrats started seceding from the Union......

 

[DudleySmith]

The first shots fired were by the democrats, not the republicans....Lincoln hadn't even taken the oath of office when the democrats started seceding from the Union......

He won the election, and many Congressmen had already taken their seats and pushing the 'Homestead Acts' and the Morill Tariff Acts through committees. In April, Lincoln refused to see the last peace delegation from Virginia, the largest southern state, then blockaded the port at Charleston, and act of war. Your claim is just stupid. The last 4 states then seceded. he knew early what would happen, as Buchanan had already tried that in January, which prompted four or five states to join South Carolina in secession. Lincoln needed the rest to secede too. You don't seem to be making up any dumb claims against the 100 War Democrats in the North who made sure Lincoln's illegal war was well funded. Lincoln could never have started the war without them.

 

[Couchpotato]

Mississippi police ‘goon squad’ plead guilty to torturing Black men in racist attack

Supreme Court rejects Alabama GOP redistricting appeal, clearing way for Dem pickup

A federal court will choose a map that will likely result in an additional Black member of Congress.

www.politico.com

1. This is not slavery

2. Did you not notice that these idiots went to jail? You know because what they did is illegal and not sanctioned by the citizens of Mississippi?

 

[pknopp]

1. This is not slavery

It isn't. It just goes to the mindset to back up what I initially said.

2. Did you not notice that these idiots went to jail? You know because what they did is illegal and not sanctioned by the citizens of Mississippi?

All originally sanctioned by the state goons.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Ten of the Democratic secession conventions of the states stated slavery was a main cause.

 

[DudleySmith]

Ten of the Democratic secession conventions of the states stated slavery was a main cause.

So what? Democrats all claim they want freedom and love for everybody these days, yet they rely almost entirely on racist whitey hate to get elected. And, the South didn't start the war, Lincoln did, so it doesn't matter what they organized around after the fact. We know what started the secessions, and it wasn't slavery; even Lincoln himself said so. It began with the Homestead Bills and the Morill Tariffs. The South had already won all the Supreme Court battles over slavery, and Chief Justice Taney was still on the SC, then many who passed the Dred Scott decision. He didn't die until 1864.


"But what am I to do in the meantime with those men at Montgomery [meaning the Confederate constitutional convention]? Am I to let them go on...[a]nd open Charleston, etc., as ports of entry, with their ten-percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?" ~Lincoln to Colonel John B. Baldwin, deputized by the Virginian Commissioners to determine whether Lincoln would use force, April 4,1861.


"You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail ; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "
Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to Gustavus Fox, May 1, 1861



"We have no doubt, and all the circumstances prove, that it was a cunningly devised scheme, contrived with all due attention to scenic display and intended to arouse, and, if possible, exasperate the northern people against the South.... We venture to say a more gigantic conspiracy against the principles of human liberty and freedom has never been concocted. Who but a fiend could have thought of sacrificing the gallant Major Anderson and his little band in order to carry out a political game? Yet there he was compelled to stand for thirty-six hours amid a torrent of fire and shell, while he fleet sent to assist him, coolly looked at his flag of distress and moved not to his assistance! Why did they not? Perhaps the archives in Washington will yet tell the tale of this strange proceeding.... Pause then, and consider before you endorse these madmen who are now, under pretense of preserving the Union, doing the very thing that must forever divide it." ~The New York Evening Day-Book, April 17, 1861.


"The affair at Fort Sumter, it seems to us, has been planned as a means by which the war feeling at the North should be intensified, and the administration thus receive popular support for its policy.... If the armament which lay outside the harbor, while the fort was being battered to pieces [the US ship The Harriet Lane, and seven other reinforcement ships], had been designed for the relief of Major Anderson, it certainly would have made a show of fulfilling its mission. But it seems plain to us that no such design was had. The administration, virtually, to use a homely illustration, stood at Sumter like a boy with a chip on his shoulder, daring his antagonist to knock it off. The Carolinians have knocked off the chip. War is inaugurated, and the design of the administration accomplished."~ The Buffalo Daily Courier, April 16, 1861.

"They [the South] know that it is their import trade that draws from the people's pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interests....These are the reasons why these people [the North] do not wish the South to secede from the Union." .....New Orleans Daily Crescent 21 January 1861

"In one single blow our foreign commerce must be reduced to less than one-half what it now is. Our coast wise trade would pass into other hands. One-half of our shipping would lie idle at our wharves. We should lose our trade with the South, with all of its immense profits. Our manufactories would be in utter ruins. Let the South adopt the free-trade system, or that of a tariff for revenue, and these results would likely follow." ....Chicago Daily Times December 1860


"At once shut down every Southern port, destroy its commerce and bring utter ruin on the Confederate States."..... NY Times 22 March 1861


"the mask has been thrown off and it is apparent that the people of the principal seceding states are now for commercial independence. They dream that the centres of traffic can be changed from Northern to Southern ports....by a revenue system verging on free trade...."....Boston Transcript 18 March 1861


"Slavery is not the cause of the rebellion ....Slavery is the pretext on which the leaders of the rebellion rely, 'to fire the Southern Heart' and through which the greatest degree of unanimity can be produced....Mr.Calhoun, after finding that the South could not be brought into sufficient unanimity by a clamor about the tariff, selected slavery as the better subject for agitation".....North American Review (Boston October 1862)


"Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this as of many other evils....The quarrel between the North and South is, as it stands, solely a fiscal quarrel"....Charles Dickens in a London periodical in December 1861

Dickens was hardly a slavery sympathizer.


"The contest is really for empire on the side of the North and for independence on that of the South...."...... London Times of 7 Nov 1861


They don't teach this history in schools for obvious reasons; northern academics and south bashers can't let it be known that Lincoln the railroad lawyer and most northern politicians started a civil war and murdered some 600,000-700,000 white southerners and about the same number of 'free' blacks to line the pockets of their railroad tycoons and northern manufacturers and banking interests with a prohibitive tariff and force southerners to pay for it all and receive little or no benefits from the agenda.

 

[Couchpotato]

It isn't. It just goes to the mindset to back up what I initially said.

No it doesn’t. A couple idiots beating up a black guy doesn’t mean the people In that state still want slavery or that they are being forced against their will to not have slavery.

If i post an article of a couple black guys beating up a white guy does that prove black people want to e slaves white people?

All originally sanctioned by the state goons.

And? All kinds of shit used to be legally sanctioned all over the world. What's your point?

 

[pknopp]

No it doesn’t. A couple idiots beating up a black guy doesn’t mean the people In that state still want slavery or that they are being forced against their will to not have slavery.

It's not necessarily about the people.

If i post an article of a couple black guys beating up a white guy does that prove black people want to e slaves white people?




And? All kinds of shit used to be legally sanctioned all over the world. What's your point?

This is recent.

 

[Couchpotato]

It's not necessarily about the people.

? WTF are you talking about? The state is going to pass a law legalizing slavery against the will of people?

This is recent.

What is recent? No state has not recently sanctioned the killing of black people or anyone person for that matter.

 

[pknopp]

? WTF are you talking about? The state is going to pass a law legalizing slavery against the will of people?

Blueberries.

What is recent? No state has not recently sanctioned the killing of black people or anyone person for that matter.

If you say so.

 

[Couchpotato]

Blueberries.




If you say so.

Post a link to a recent state law that allows for the killing of black people. I'll wait.

 

[pknopp]

Post a link to a recent state law that allows for the killing of black people. I'll wait.

Cats can be finicky.

 

[Couchpotato]

Cats can be finicky.

So no link then?

What I thought.

 

[pknopp]

So no link then?

What I thought.

Meh, you didn't provide a link to things you never argued either. Why should I?

 

[Couchpotato]

Meh, you didn't provide a link to things you never argued either. Why should I?

You said states sanctioned the killing of black people recently. Do you need me to quote you?

Not sure how a state would sanction the killing of anyone other than through the legal system.

 

[Robert W]

If the Civil War had been fought and if the Confederacy had won, slavery might still exit. It would be a matter of national pride. Southern whites would think, "We did not win the War of Northern Aggression to let the [derogatory n word] go free."

The south fought a defensive and not offensive war. They were unjustly invaded. Why would you think slavery would last given the machine age was in the process of changing the world?

 

[pknopp]

You said states sanctioned the killing of black people recently. Do you need me to quote you?

Yes.

Not sure how a state would sanction the killing of anyone other than through the legal system.

It's your argument, you figure it out.

 

[Couchpotato]

It isn't. It just goes to the mindset to back up what I initially said.




All originally sanctioned by the state goons.

This is you right?

 

[pknopp]

This is you right?

Yep, and nowhere does it say what you claim.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Cats can be finicky.

Why are you trolling?