What's happened to public schools in America?

[BaronVonBigmeat]

I rest my case.

Funny, I managed to learn without doing homework during the summer (and back then, the summer was actually 3 months, not 2). But when the quality of education is at rock bottom, I guess you have to compensate with quantity.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Funny, I managed to learn without doing homework during the summer (and back then, the summer was actually 3 months, not 2). But when the quality of education is at rock bottom, I guess you have to compensate with quantity.

And I would say that the kids of parents who neglected to teach them the value of reading and learning, are only going to pick up a book if it's assigned.

 

[liberalogic]

Even if she was going back to school in the fall, I still wouldn't let her do homework in the summer. She's never done it. It's a real farce. Every year they give her some stupid reading list, with some "proof" like a journel or book reports she's supposed to do, and she's never done it once.

Here's the thing about teachers: they like to say they do all this work on their own time. That's a crock of shit. Yes, if a teacher is new, or has to teach a different grade, that is a lot of work. But once a teacher has been teaching a grade or a subject for a while, they can do it in their sleep. Most of the homework kids turn in gets checked off and thrown in the waste basket. Trust me, I know. I've seen my sister do just that.

They work 7 hours a day, eight months a year, with every holiday off. The worst aspect of being a teacher these days is the education and standards required. Frigging doctors are not required to have as much on going education as teachers are. And they keep changing the rules. When my sister started out if you got a Masters Degree you were safe. It took her years and thousands of dollars of her own money to get it, not counting the thousands she spent in the interval getting so many credits every two years before she earned her Masters, and then once she got her Masters they changed the rules again.

I wouldn't want to be a teacher. I have respect for the good teachers. But there just are not enough good teachers out there.


I don't know what math she's taking now. I haven't looked at her math since 4th grade. You should see how they teach math these days. It's very bizarre.

Summer work not only keeps their minds active and prepares them for the level of work that they should expect the following year, but it also reminds students that learning is a neverending process. Summer work also fosters the independence needed to succeed in a high school class when teachers aren't as hands-on. Excessive work that dominates the entire summer is pushing it, but a few weeks worth is beneficial.

As for teachers, we should trade in tenure for pay hikes. If they do their jobs effectively and produce results, they get a raise like the rest of us in the working world. If they do a poor job, they get fired or reassigned. Until we get rid of tenure, the schools won't improve.

 

[Mr.Conley]

I don't know what math she's taking now. I haven't looked at her math since 4th grade. You should see how they teach math these days. It's very bizarre.

Could you look into that. Math level determines a lot in high school. She's probably just finishing algebra 1. If you're lucky, geometry. If your school is good, then she should be finishing Precalc.

Also, if your going to homeschool your child, you should look into community service and extracurricular programs she could attend. That way she isn't spending the entire day around the house.

 

[Mr.Conley]

While social skills are extremely important in school, they are for the children to learn on their own. And by singling out your child, they are actually making her feel worse when they're intention was the opposite. If they only spent this much time on teaching, you're kid would probably be in Harvard right now.

But then you have to realize that no one at Harvard has ANY social skills.

 

[insein]

I find the vast gap between the OVER Protectiveness of the suburban public schools and the UNDER protectiveness of the urban public schools absolutely hillarious.

Social Workers for loner kids to try and avoid Columbine's. For starters, teachers get back to teaching and stop with the petty bullshit. Its not teaching kids discipline to be on their ass for not staring you in the eye everyday. Its making them more disobedient.

Then in city schools you have kids beating the piss out of other students in the classroom and the teachers not being able to do anything about it. Teacher's lives are threatened and their possessions are destroyed. The unions response is to make sure that they are getting their pay and getting out at 3:09. No regard to the teachers safety.

So i see a great divide in mindsets and neither are on the right track.

 

[liberalogic]

But then you have to realize that no one at Harvard has ANY social skills.

Is that really true?

 

[Mr.Conley]

Is that really true?

**Wow, what was supposed to be a quick reply turned into a monster. Read if you dare**


Yes and no. There are a good number of people here who are very open, friendly, and fun to be around, but a larger percentage of the student body got here by studying hard all through high school and focusing on 1 to 3 big things after school. Between all those AP tests and sat prep courses, many people never developed "normal" skills like small talk. I know a surprising number of people here who can't whistle. They never had time to learn. It sounds bad, but it really isn't a huge problem. It's just that a lot of people figured out really early on- 7th, 8th, even 5th grade- that they wanted to go to Harvard and they did whatever it took to get here. They made their choice, and they got their reward. I have to admit that I am a member of this group. I decided in either 7th or 8th grade that I wanted to go to an ivy. I planned my activities, took something like 16 or 17 APs, did a lot of community service, plus founded my own business. In the end, my efforts paid off, and I'm extremely happy with the way things turned out. Fortunately I balanced it more than others. I still go out on weekends and enjoy myself, but I know people who are either in class or preparing for their next class. People who start studying for finals before the first day of class. They do better than me, but outside of academics they don't really have a personality. Then their is the second group. These are the people who just have a natural genius. They kicked butt in high school without even trying, came here, and continue to do reasonably well without freaking out like some people here. This is a smaller group, but a fair percentage of them are really neat people. I know a guy who founded a multimillion dollar business at 14, another girl whose played at Carniege Hall since the 7th grade, one of my friends speaks 10 languages (English, Spanish, French, Latin, Japanese, Chinese. Korean, Russian, Hebrew, and Arabic) almost all fluently. You'll meet a lot of incredibly people at Harvard. Some who have always dreamed of being there; some who can't believe they're at Harvard; others came because they got an acceptance letter. All these people bring something to the table, and a lot of them are really amazing. There are people who overdo the academic thing, and they are still great people, even if you wouldn't want to have a drink with them.

 

[nt250]

My daughter's school gives the kids reading and a math packet to do over the summer. There are two stated reasons: First, to help evaluate which level class the kids would best fit into in the fall, and second, to keep them from sliding back from the level they were at academically when the prior school year ended.

I can see the rationale for both, and neither my duaghter nor my husband an I mind it at all. It's more work for the teachers as well, and I commend them to doing it.

I totally disagree. The only reason schools, specifically elementary and middle schools, assign homework in the summer is to push the job of being the teacher off on the parents. It's a way to force parents to do what teachers do. Fuck that shit. I'm not a teacher and I will not do their job for them. I don't help with homework. I will buy supplies for projects and supply my daughter with all the materials she needs to do a project, but any work they get from her is hers and hers alone.

When Kayleigh was in fourth grade she had to do a science project. The kids were given a choice of about 5 different subjects to do it on, and my kid chose to do it on rocks. The different types of rocks. Sediments. Basic geology. She did a pretty good job on it. It wasn't fancy, but it was all her own work. All I did was print a bunch of pictures from the internet that she had sent me links to because my print prints better color and is faster that hers. I would have given it a C.

The day all the projects were due, I drove into the school yard and stopped the car to let her out. She put her hand on the handle to get out of the car and stopped with the door ajar. I looked in the direction she was looking. All around us were parents carrying these big, elaborate, projects into the school. We just sat there for about 20 or 30 seconds, watching. Then I said to her "But you did yours all by yourself." She sighed, opened the door, and said "they won't care". And she got out and walked into school.

And she was right. They didn't care. When all the projects were put on display, hers was nowhere to be found. I had stopped having anything to do with the school by then. But she looked, and it was nowhere.

I told my sister about it and she poo poo'd me. "Oh, they probably put it in her file" she said. Beats me. As far as know it was never graded. She never got it back. Just before we moved I made an appointment to see her file. It wasn't there.

She passed science that year. But she hasn't put any real effort into anything since. Why should she when the teacher will probably just throw it away?

Teachers don't grade most of the work they get back. Homework, if it's recorded at all, just gets a check mark that it was turned in.

My daughter has never done homework in the summer. No reading lists. No book reports. She's never suffered for it.

Oh, and one more thing: My daughter is to never, ever, keep a journal of any kind that a teacher reads. Absolutely under no circumstances will I allow that.

 

[Mr. P]

I totally disagree. The only reason schools, specifically elementary and middle schools, assign homework in the summer is to push the job of being the teacher off on the parents. It's a way to force parents to do what teachers do. Fuck that shit. I'm not a teacher and I will not do their job for them. I don't help with homework. I will buy supplies for projects and supply my daughter with all the materials she needs to do a project, but any work they get from her is hers and hers alone.

When Kayleigh was in fourth grade she had to do a science project. The kids were given a choice of about 5 different subjects to do it on, and my kid chose to do it on rocks. The different types of rocks. Sediments. Basic geology. She did a pretty good job on it. It wasn't fancy, but it was all her own work. All I did was print a bunch of pictures from the internet that she had sent me links to because my print prints better color and is faster that hers. I would have given it a C.

The day all the projects were due, I drove into the school yard and stopped the car to let her out. She put her hand on the handle to get out of the car and stopped with the door ajar. I looked in the direction she was looking. All around us were parents carrying these big, elaborate, projects into the school. We just sat there for about 20 or 30 seconds, watching. Then I said to her "But you did yours all by yourself." She sighed, opened the door, and said "they won't care". And she got out and walked into school.

And she was right. They didn't care. When all the projects were put on display, hers was nowhere to be found. I had stopped having anything to do with the school by then. But she looked, and it was nowhere.

I told my sister about it and she poo poo'd me. "Oh, they probably put it in her file" she said. Beats me. As far as know it was never graded. She never got it back. Just before we moved I made an appointment to see her file. It wasn't there.

She passed science that year. But she hasn't put any real effort into anything since. Why should she when the teacher will probably just throw it away?

Teachers don't grade most of the work they get back. Homework, if it's recorded at all, just gets a check mark that it was turned in.

My daughter has never done homework in the summer. No reading lists. No book reports. She's never suffered for it.

Oh, and one more thing: My daughter is to never, ever, keep a journal of any kind that a teacher reads. Absolutely under no circumstances will I allow that.

This whole thread is really a joke, isn't it. No parent can be so fucked-up, well maybe. Tell us please, is this a joke or are you really a piss poor parent?

 

[nt250]

This whole thread is really a joke, isn't it. No parent can be so fucked-up, well maybe. Tell us please, is this a joke or are you really a piss poor parent?

I'm a pissed off parent. They've beaten me.

I just don't understand teachers anymore.

I had one teacher say to me "In my 25 years of teaching my main priority has always been to make sure my students are happy". I laughed in her face. I've had teachers say some pretty stupid things to me over the years, but that is by far the stupidest thing any teacher has ever said.

That same teacher complained that my kid wasn't working up to her potential. I said "So grade her accordingly". She looked at me like I had three heads.


I also don't understand parents today. I have one co-worker who braggs that she used to spend 2-4 hours every night helping her son with his homework. Why, on Earth, would a parent do such a thing? How is a teacher supposed to know if the kid didn't understand a lesson if the parent has to spend 2 hours a night re-teaching it to them? My philosophy on homework is that if a kid can't do it by themselves then the teacher needs to know they did a poor job explaining the lesson.

But homework in the summer? Never. When she gets to high school and her grades become more important, and she wants to do it, and she's still in the public schools, then fine. But parents who let their elementary school kids do homework in the summer are out of their minds. School is not the be all and end all of a kids existense. They should know what it's like to have a summer off. To be free.

I feel sorry for kids today. They'll never know the freedom we had when I was a kid. We were kicked out of the house after breakfast and told to go find something to do. We had lunch at whatever kids house we were closest to. The only rule was we had to be home by supper. Back then, parents would walk outside and call for their kids. After supper we'd all go outside and play in the street. The parents would all come outside and sit on their front stoops and watch us and shoot the shit with each other.

That's what my summers were like. Kids today can't even walk down the street by themselves. It's a shame.

 

[Said1]

I make my daughter do homework like activities all year round. Actually, I think "make" isn't an accurated description, since she does it willingly. What's wrong with *gasp* learning stuff on their summer holidays or spare time? Especially when she enjoys learning.

 

[Annie]

I make my daughter do homework like activities all year round. Actually, I think "make" isn't an accurated description, since she does it willingly. What's wrong with *gasp* learning stuff on their summer holidays or spare time? Especially when she enjoys learning.

Years before I ever thought of teaching, I was my kids' first teacher. Started from the time they were born. While everyone I know felt the same, I guess some don't?

I agree with the woman saying she won't do her child's homework, parents shouldn't. Homework should be for reinforcement or enrichment only. If it's 'new' material, something is wrong.

When I was a kid, there wasn't 'assigned reading', but the library had a summer reading program and that's where all my friends met up-we're talking through 8th grade. We didn't do 'book reports' but did complete projects. There were book discussion groups, including the Great Books, that were also in my school.

I'm uncertain what a 13 or 14 year old with few, if any friends does all summer, with 'no work', while Mom is at work saying the daughter should 'be out from morning' until dinner.

 

[Said1]

When I was 12-15 my mother was the director of a emergency food and clothing centre, downtown. If I hadn't found a job or summer program to join, guess where I had to go?

 

[Annie]

When I was 12-15 my mother was the director of a emergency food and clothing centre, downtown. If I hadn't found a job or summer program to join, guess where I had to go?

I started working the summer after 8th grade, waitressing. Good money in the summer, beat being home.

 

[Mr. P]

I'm a pissed off parent. They've beaten me.

Beaten you how?

I just don't understand teachers anymore.

This is very apparent.

I had one teacher say to me "In my 25 years of teaching my main priority has always been to make sure my students are happy". I laughed in her face. I've had teachers say some pretty stupid things to me over the years, but that is by far the stupidest thing any teacher has ever said.

I don’t think it’s stupid at all, if a child is not happy they most likely won’t learn. So, IMO this teacher was on the ball. There’s much more to teaching than standing up and giving a class. Teachers are a students’ mommy, daddy, psychologist, doctor, and in some cases protector. It has to be that way by nature. They spend more time with your kid than you do Monday-Friday. There are also parents who don’t raise their kids, they grow kids. Seems you fall into that group IMO.

That same teacher complained that my kid wasn't working up to her potential. I said "So grade her accordingly". She looked at me like I had three heads.

She probable was grading her on her performance. Telling you she had more potential should have given you a clue that something needed addressed. I’d say the teacher may have been requesting YOUR participation in your own daughters’ education process.
That doesn’t mean you must do their job. As a PARENT you are an asset in the formal education process. You and only you can address things the teacher can’t. Due to time limits in the classroom, or issues outside of the classroom. It sounds to me like this is a caring involved teacher. She looked at you like you had three heads? No, my guess is it was a look of, this idiot doesn’t get it!

I also don't understand parents today. I have one co-worker who braggs that she used to spend 2-4 hours every night helping her son with his homework. Why, on Earth, would a parent do such a thing? How is a teacher supposed to know if the kid didn't understand a lesson if the parent has to spend 2 hours a night re-teaching it to them? My philosophy on homework is that if a kid can't do it by themselves then the teacher needs to know they did a poor job explaining the lesson.

I don’t understand Parents that want to place the burden of education entirely on a young child an teachers, then stand back and let the chips fall where the may (see growing a child).

But homework in the summer? Never. When she gets to high school and her grades become more important, and she wants to do it, and she's still in the public schools, then fine. But parents who let their elementary school kids do homework in the summer are out of their minds. School is not the be all and end all of a kids existense. They should know what it's like to have a summer off. To be free.

A reading list or math review over the summer are valuable. My daughter always had a summer reading list. The purpose was to less time wasted when school starts. A class can dive right into analysis, review and discussion of a book. As far as math, it cuts the time lost in review. True school is not the be all and end all of a kids existence. But education is the be all and end all of their future, and that’s what schools are for. Parents must insure their child is educated to their POTENTIAL. Get it? Continue on your current track, just be sure your daughter can say “Would you like fries with that”.

I feel sorry for kids today. They'll never know the freedom we had when I was a kid. We were kicked out of the house after breakfast and told to go find something to do. We had lunch at whatever kids house we were closest to. The only rule was we had to be home by supper. Back then, parents would walk outside and call for their kids. After supper we'd all go outside and play in the street. The parents would all come outside and sit on their front stoops and watch us and shoot the shit with each other.
That's what my summers were like. Kids today can't even walk down the street by themselves. It's a shame.

I feel sorry for your daughter, she needs a parent to raise her, and you need a shrink.

 

[nt250]

There’s much more to teaching than standing up and giving a class. Teachers are a students’ mommy, daddy, psychologist, doctor, and in some cases protector. It has to be that way by nature. They spend more time with your kid than you do Monday-Friday. There are also parents who don’t raise their kids, they grow kids. Seems you fall into that group IMO.

That's the problem with public education today.

People like you who think the school has the right to parent a child.

The best teachers are those that teach. They don't let their personal dislike of a student affect how they treat them when it comes to school work. They don't let what the other teachers say about a kid in the teachers room affect how they handle any particular kid, or a kids siblings. They don't take their dislike of the parent out on the child. They are professionals. They don't take it personally.

And there are very, very few left. Why? Because most of them have the same attitude you do.

God save me from teachers who "care". They are the absolute worst teachers I have ever had the misfortunate to have to sit at a table with and listen to them spew their "concern". Why? Because they take it personally.

 

[nt250]

Years before I ever thought of teaching...:

Are you a teacher?

If you are, how would you handle this situation:

You have a kid in your class that you think needs help. She always has a sour look on her face. She has no friends. He mother is the biggest psycho the school has ever seen.

One day, another kid in your class makes a snarky comment to you during a lesson. This other kid, the one who lacks socialization skills, chuckles and give the snarker the thumbs up sign.

What would you do?

A) Ignore both the snarky comment and the editorial from the peanut gallery.
B) Make a joke about the snarky comment and the editorial from the peanut gallery.
C) Take the kid who made the editorial from the peanut gallery and personally walk them down to the principals office.

If you chose C you guessed correctly. My daughter's 7th grade science teacher, who was also her homeroom teacher whose biggest complaint was that she wouldn't say Good Morning to him, walked my daughter, himself, to the principal's office because she gave a thumbs up sign to another kid who had made a sarcastic comment in class.

Gee, I call that being social, don't you?

Yeah, everywhere but Stepford.

 

[Annie]

Are you a teacher?

If you are, how would you handle this situation:

You have a kid in your class that you think needs help. She always has a sour look on her face. She has no friends. He mother is the biggest psycho the school has ever seen.

One day, another kid in your class makes a snarky comment to you during a lesson. This other kid, the one who lacks socialization skills, chuckles and give the snarker the thumbs up sign.

What would you do?

A) Ignore both the snarky comment and the editorial from the peanut gallery.
B) Make a joke about the snarky comment and the editorial from the peanut gallery.
C) Take the kid who made the editorial from the peanut gallery and personally walk them down to the principals office.

If you chose C you guessed correctly. My daughter's 7th grade science teacher, who was also her homeroom teacher whose biggest complaint was that she wouldn't say Good Morning to him, walked my daughter, himself, to the principal's office because she gave a thumbs up sign to another kid who had made a sarcastic comment in class.

Gee, I call that being social, don't you?

Yeah, everywhere but Stepford.

Since you asked what I would do:

1. pink slip the kid that mouthed off.
2. warned your daughter about appropriateness, if she hadn't done the like before.
3. resume teaching.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I totally disagree. The only reason schools, specifically elementary and middle schools, assign homework in the summer is to push the job of being the teacher off on the parents. It's a way to force parents to do what teachers do. Fuck that shit. I'm not a teacher and I will not do their job for them. I don't help with homework. I will buy supplies for projects and supply my daughter with all the materials she needs to do a project, but any work they get from her is hers and hers alone.

When Kayleigh was in fourth grade she had to do a science project. The kids were given a choice of about 5 different subjects to do it on, and my kid chose to do it on rocks. The different types of rocks. Sediments. Basic geology. She did a pretty good job on it. It wasn't fancy, but it was all her own work. All I did was print a bunch of pictures from the internet that she had sent me links to because my print prints better color and is faster that hers. I would have given it a C.

The day all the projects were due, I drove into the school yard and stopped the car to let her out. She put her hand on the handle to get out of the car and stopped with the door ajar. I looked in the direction she was looking. All around us were parents carrying these big, elaborate, projects into the school. We just sat there for about 20 or 30 seconds, watching. Then I said to her "But you did yours all by yourself." She sighed, opened the door, and said "they won't care". And she got out and walked into school.

And she was right. They didn't care. When all the projects were put on display, hers was nowhere to be found. I had stopped having anything to do with the school by then. But she looked, and it was nowhere.

I told my sister about it and she poo poo'd me. "Oh, they probably put it in her file" she said. Beats me. As far as know it was never graded. She never got it back. Just before we moved I made an appointment to see her file. It wasn't there.

She passed science that year. But she hasn't put any real effort into anything since. Why should she when the teacher will probably just throw it away?

Teachers don't grade most of the work they get back. Homework, if it's recorded at all, just gets a check mark that it was turned in.

My daughter has never done homework in the summer. No reading lists. No book reports. She's never suffered for it.

Oh, and one more thing: My daughter is to never, ever, keep a journal of any kind that a teacher reads. Absolutely under no circumstances will I allow that.

You must misunderstand me. My daughter does her summer reading all on her own. All we do is buy her the books, and she takes it from there. In fact, she has chosen the option of taking a test on the material as soon as she is back in school, rather than write a paper, so we couldn't help her even if we wanted to. The first book is The Old Man and the Sea. I'm thrilled. With the math packet, if there is something she truly just doesn't get, my husband will guide her. But she still does the work herself. And guess who gets to spend their time grading all of those test and papers? Those "lazy" teachers.

Others can chime in here, but I don't think any of this is weird or obnoxious on either the school's part or on ours. Think of it as doing light workouts when you are out of shape, to judge just how out of shape you are, and to work yourself up to serious workouts.

Frankly, you seem too angry at her school for your daughter to get anything positive out of it anyway, so perhaps it is best that she withdraw.