What's An Acceptable Number Of Innocent People Being Executed?

[JoeB131]

What do you mean, "We haven't found that person yet"? There have been 17 people EXONERATED by DNA. Many more were AQUITTED at re-trial.

Innocence: List of Those Freed From Death Row | Death Penalty Information Center

As for, "I guess the reason I don't lose a lot of sleep over the issue is that the kinds of people who get "wrongly convicted" usually did a bunch of bad stuff that they were never caught doing." That is just plain wrong no matter how you slice it.

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What you haven't found is a wrongly executed person. You've found people who got death penalties, didn't actually commit the crimes they were convicted of, but committed plenty of others.

You look at your "exonerated" criminals, you get clowns like Rolando Cruz. Been in trouble with the law before, have been in trouble since.

 

[Gadawg73]

What do you mean, "We haven't found that person yet"? There have been 17 people EXONERATED by DNA. Many more were AQUITTED at re-trial.

Innocence: List of Those Freed From Death Row | Death Penalty Information Center

As for, "I guess the reason I don't lose a lot of sleep over the issue is that the kinds of people who get "wrongly convicted" usually did a bunch of bad stuff that they were never caught doing." That is just plain wrong no matter how you slice it.

.

What you haven't found is a wrongly executed person. You've found people who got death penalties, didn't actually commit the crimes they were convicted of, but committed plenty of others.

You look at your "exonerated" criminals, you get clowns like Rolando Cruz. Been in trouble with the law before, have been in trouble since.

How does one find "a wrongly executed person"?
With a shovel or backhoe?
Iran and China do it your way. Shotgun effect. Go ahead and execute folks. They are probably guilty.

 

[Flopper]

Just wondered what an acceptable number would be for "executing innocent people by mistake" before reviewing the death penalty? What brings this up is the proud record of Texas.

From what I've seen there have been 12 people released from Death Row in Texas. There has also been 755 executed. Now ASSUMING that EVERY ONE of the executed were, in fact, guilty as charged (highly unlikely) that would bring the average to about 1.6% faulty conviction rate.

So what say you? Is more than 1 out of 100 "mistakes" an acceptable number? Would that be considered "collateral damage"?
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You guys haven't found that person yet.

I think the problem with the "you might execute an innocent person by mistake" argument is addressing the issues of flaws in the system. I think sending an innocent person away for the rest of his life in a cell block with a bunch of animals is worse than death row. Who'd want to live like that?

I guess the reason I don't lose a lot of sleep over the issue is that the kinds of people who get "wrongly convicted" usually did a bunch of bad stuff that they were never caught doing. Cops are out there busting Marvin Milqutoast. They are busting the local dirtbag with a long criminal record because they figured "he looked good for it."

I do think we need to fund public defenders better, and put more emphasis on finding the truth than running up a conviction rate. Cops who frame suspects and prosecutors who commit misconduct to win should be thrown out of their jobs.

But the thing is, we need a death penalty to send a message that SOME crimes are completely unacceptable to a civil society. Throwing Charles Manson in prison until he's a senior citizen doesn't cut it.

You said - spending your life in prison is worse than death, then said it is better to kill the bad guys than keep them in prison for life, to teach them and others a lesson?
So are you actually being too soft by advocating the death penalty?
"Death is too good for them"

There are 4 reasons to imprison people:
1. To rehabilitate
2. To deter others
3. To seek retribution
4. To separate the person from society so they can't commit more crimes while in prison.

Forget the rehabilitation. We gave up on that long ago. Prisons teach the importance of not getting caught.

Prisons are really not much of a deterrent? 70% of the released prisoners are convicted of a crime in less than two years. It's not much of a deterrent for those considering committing a crime because they don't believe they will ever get caught or the crime is committed in a fit of passion or they're under the influence or just plain nuts.

Retribution does nothing for society and is questionable if it does anything for the injured parties.

Separation from society, either temporary or permanently is always a valid reason. Longer sentences will mean less crime.

I think we often forget, that prison is where we put the failures. Successful criminals don't get caught.

 

[JoeB131]

How does one find "a wrongly executed person"?
With a shovel or backhoe?
Iran and China do it your way. Shotgun effect. Go ahead and execute folks. They are probably guilty.

You re-examine the evidence and ABSOLUTELY prove executed guy #456 didn't do the crime.

The libs have been looking for this guy for decades. they haven't found him yet.

They've gotten a few obviously guilty guys off on technicalities, so I guess that's something to be proud of.

 

[driveby]

Ok. I give up on you. You've shown that....

1) You're incapable of honest debate, and

2) Showing you total idiocy.

The only real point you made is that you would rather be Bubba's Butt Boy for 30 years rather than die and get it over with. As the prisoner said in an earlier post......



Bottom line? I don't think you have a clue about the prison system or execution. All you're doing is running off at the mouth and spewing shit. When you grow up and form an educated opinion let me know.

Since I just got home from a 12 hour graveyard shift I'm heading for bed. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when I get up and see some sort of coherent response from you. But I doubt it. It's beyond your capabilities.

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Excuse me if i don't take the word of some liberal asshat who watches prison movies and thinks he knows how it is. You think all murderers are bubba's butt boy? How many of these murderers are actually the bubba who is making some bank robber their butt boy?

You, with all your sooper dooper education should know better than to take one prisoners opinion as gospel, maybe you'll wake up with some new found common sense, but i doubt it.....

Translated: "I really don't have any good answers so I'll just be insulting and pretend I actually have a defendable argument".

Actually dumbass I have a 50 year old brother and a good childhood friend who have spent most of their adult lives behind bars. If given a choice between death and life imprisonment just kill me now.

But since you've been unable to form a coherent thought or argument in the entire thread I have to wonder why you participated in the first place. Heck, you lost before you ever really started.

.

Oh i've clearly and coherently pointed out that you're full of shit, you just lack the comprehension or your fragile little liberal ego can't admit it. You have ONE (1) documented murderer that thinks prison is worse than death. Oh and your baby momma's cousin's uncle's brother who has been in prison so long and would rather be dead, which you may or may not be lying about, that's a pretty strong case you've made!

No death row inmates inmates ever try whatever they can to get their sentence changed to life in prison either, do they? Because prison is just so much worse!

Anyway, this is America, so feel free to continue your dishonesty and deflections, please.....

 

[Gadawg73]

Just wondered what an acceptable number would be for "executing innocent people by mistake" before reviewing the death penalty? What brings this up is the proud record of Texas.

From what I've seen there have been 12 people released from Death Row in Texas. There has also been 755 executed. Now ASSUMING that EVERY ONE of the executed were, in fact, guilty as charged (highly unlikely) that would bring the average to about 1.6% faulty conviction rate.

So what say you? Is more than 1 out of 100 "mistakes" an acceptable number? Would that be considered "collateral damage"?
.

You guys haven't found that person yet.

I think the problem with the "you might execute an innocent person by mistake" argument is addressing the issues of flaws in the system. I think sending an innocent person away for the rest of his life in a cell block with a bunch of animals is worse than death row. Who'd want to live like that?

I guess the reason I don't lose a lot of sleep over the issue is that the kinds of people who get "wrongly convicted" usually did a bunch of bad stuff that they were never caught doing. Cops are out there busting Marvin Milqutoast. They are busting the local dirtbag with a long criminal record because they figured "he looked good for it."

I do think we need to fund public defenders better, and put more emphasis on finding the truth than running up a conviction rate. Cops who frame suspects and prosecutors who commit misconduct to win should be thrown out of their jobs.

But the thing is, we need a death penalty to send a message that SOME crimes are completely unacceptable to a civil society. Throwing Charles Manson in prison until he's a senior citizen doesn't cut it.

How does one locate someone "wrongly executed"?

 

[JoeB131]

There are 4 reasons to imprison people:
1. To rehabilitate
2. To deter others
3. To seek retribution
4. To separate the person from society so they can't commit more crimes while in prison.

Forget the rehabilitation. We gave up on that long ago. Prisons teach the importance of not getting caught.

Prisons are really not much of a deterrent? 70% of the released prisoners are convicted of a crime in less than two years. It's not much of a deterrent for those considering committing a crime because they don't believe they will ever get caught or the crime is committed in a fit of passion or they're under the influence or just plain nuts.

Retribution does nothing for society and is questionable if it does anything for the injured parties.

Separation from society, either temporary or permanently is always a valid reason. Longer sentences will mean less crime.

I think we often forget, that prison is where we put the failures. Successful criminals don't get caught.

Actually, I think we lock up people we shouldn't lock up. The war on drugs is a horrible idea. And locking up car theives with rapists just means you get a meaner car theif when he gets out.

That said, we should have an ultimate penalty for no other reason than this.

When Gov. Ryan commuted the sentences of 168 dirtbags on IL's death row, 7 of them were convicted of killing people IN PRISON! Without the threat of death, there's really nothing keeping a "lifer" from killing his fellow inmates or even a prison employee.

 

[Gadawg73]

How does one find "a wrongly executed person"?
With a shovel or backhoe?
Iran and China do it your way. Shotgun effect. Go ahead and execute folks. They are probably guilty.

You re-examine the evidence and ABSOLUTELY prove executed guy #456 didn't do the crime.

The libs have been looking for this guy for decades. they haven't found him yet.

They've gotten a few obviously guilty guys off on technicalities, so I guess that's something to be proud of.

"re-examine the evidence"
That will do a lot of good for someone that has been executed.
I have investigated over 3000 criminal cases and over 80 murder cases in the last 30 years.
Respectfully, you have no clue about what you are posting and talking about.
Give it up.

 

[JoeB131]

How does one locate someone "wrongly executed"?

Did I use big complicated words you didn't understand?

Because I'm not going to waste time on you if you are going to waste my time.

 

[Charles_Main]

As many as possible who commit intentional premeditated murder. I still prefer the bringing back of public hangings. I think it would send a psychological warning to blacks who are thinking about murdering whites since lately we are seeing massive black on white crimes.

Ok Liberals I give you permission on this one, he passes the test.

Clearly a Classic Racist asshole.

 

[driveby]

There are 4 reasons to imprison people:
1. To rehabilitate
2. To deter others
3. To seek retribution
4. To separate the person from society so they can't commit more crimes while in prison.

Forget the rehabilitation. We gave up on that long ago. Prisons teach the importance of not getting caught.

Prisons are really not much of a deterrent? 70% of the released prisoners are convicted of a crime in less than two years. It's not much of a deterrent for those considering committing a crime because they don't believe they will ever get caught or the crime is committed in a fit of passion or they're under the influence or just plain nuts.

Retribution does nothing for society and is questionable if it does anything for the injured parties.

Separation from society, either temporary or permanently is always a valid reason. Longer sentences will mean less crime.

I think we often forget, that prison is where we put the failures. Successful criminals don't get caught.

When Gov. Ryan commuted the sentences of 168 dirtbags on IL's death row, 7 of them were convicted of killing people IN PRISON! Without the threat of death, there's really nothing keeping a "lifer" from killing his fellow inmates or even a prison employee.

Wrong, DaGoofe told me all murderers would rather die than have to serve a long prison sentence.....

 

[Moonglow]

the death penalty is no deterrent to murder

 

[JoeB131]

"re-examine the evidence"
That will do a lot of good for someone that has been executed.
I have investigated over 3000 criminal cases and over 80 murder cases in the last 30 years.
Respectfully, you have no clue about what you are posting and talking about.
Give it up.

Being part of our abortion of a criminal justice system isn't something you need to go around bragging about.

Seriously, you want to be patted on the back for being part of a FAILED system?

My point was- If a guy WHO DIDN'T DO WHAT HE WAS ACCUSED OF can be PROVEN to have NOT DONE WHAT HE WAS ACCUSED OF, and was EXECUTED ANYWAY, then present the case and make your point.

It seems to me that the system is working as well as anything involving human beings can work. Those who were guilty were executed, those who weren't were proven innocent before they were executed.

My opinion, we should be executing MORE of them, not less. For every Rolando Cruz (dirtbag who may not have done what he was accused of) you have a Richard Spec (Guilty as a cat in a canary cage, allowed to live by idiot judges.)

 

[Charles_Main]

So, How many people have been Executed that were later found to be Innocent? Got some numbers? Documentation?

Before DNA, yes there were several people on Death Row who were found to be Innocent, but guess what so far there is no proof we killed anyone who was innocent, and even if we did that was back before DNA.

Today Juries only give out the Death penalty in cases where not only was the crime Terrible, but there is hard evidence, Usually DNA evidence against the accused. And even then they spend over 2 Decades on Death Row making multiple Appeals.

Seems to me from here on out, we can be 99.9999% sure of ones guilt before we kill them.

 

[Charles_Main]

There are 4 reasons to imprison people:
1. To rehabilitate
2. To deter others
3. To seek retribution
4. To separate the person from society so they can't commit more crimes while in prison.

Forget the rehabilitation. We gave up on that long ago. Prisons teach the importance of not getting caught.

Prisons are really not much of a deterrent? 70% of the released prisoners are convicted of a crime in less than two years. It's not much of a deterrent for those considering committing a crime because they don't believe they will ever get caught or the crime is committed in a fit of passion or they're under the influence or just plain nuts.

Retribution does nothing for society and is questionable if it does anything for the injured parties.

Separation from society, either temporary or permanently is always a valid reason. Longer sentences will mean less crime.

I think we often forget, that prison is where we put the failures. Successful criminals don't get caught.

When Gov. Ryan commuted the sentences of 168 dirtbags on IL's death row, 7 of them were convicted of killing people IN PRISON! Without the threat of death, there's really nothing keeping a "lifer" from killing his fellow inmates or even a prison employee.

Wrong, DaGoofe told me all murderers would rather die than have to serve a long prison sentence.....

is that a joke, Or are you just an idiot.

Prison is paradise for a Sadistic, Controlling Murderer.

 

[candycorn]

What's an acceptable number of innocent unborn babies being executed?......

You can frame abortion however you want but as far as a numerical limit to how many abortions are acceptable? There is no limit. If a woman wants to have an abortion, she can have it. Of course, this excludes illegal abortions.

Now, care to actually answer the question in the OP instead of dodging/deflecting?

Speaking of "framed", the OP's question is framed and not intended for honest debate, so the OP was nothing but a ****** ass deflection in itself, along with the "personal choice" bullshit answer to my question. To answer the OP's troll question, my opinion, along with any other fair minded person is we would not want to see any innocent person executed. On that note, how many sociopathic, no good, ass murdering pieces of shit such as the one in the OP's article deserve to breathe the same air as you and i do?

Now let the real deflections begin!

My opinion is that society has a right to defend itself;

It does not have the right to be vengeful. In my opinion, the death penalty is nothing but vengeance since by the statistical fact that year after year, Texas leads the nation in executions. If it were a deterrent, it would not lead the nation year after year; murders would be on the vast decline in the state and therefore the numbers on death row would be lower and lower.

Now, while I do not support the death penalty, (this may be off the topic) I do favor uniform sentencing. I cannot understand why if you kill a cop, you get the needle and if you happen to kill a non-cop, you may 'only' get life in prison or even a lesser sentence.

I would say this though...that if society is going to kill the most vile criminials; why is murder the threshold? Bernard Madoff probably did more harm to more people than a great many people on death row. Some of the espionage cases that jeopardize national security....it would seem as though they did more damage to the nation than a guy whose emotions got the better of him and killed someone.

I'm against the death penalty, make no mistake. But if you're going to break out the heavy lumber on a criminal, there are several crimes beyond murder that, I feel would warrant the use of it.

 

[Gadawg73]

"re-examine the evidence"
That will do a lot of good for someone that has been executed.
I have investigated over 3000 criminal cases and over 80 murder cases in the last 30 years.
Respectfully, you have no clue about what you are posting and talking about.
Give it up.

Being part of our abortion of a criminal justice system isn't something you need to go around bragging about.

Seriously, you want to be patted on the back for being part of a FAILED system?

My point was- If a guy WHO DIDN'T DO WHAT HE WAS ACCUSED OF can be PROVEN to have NOT DONE WHAT HE WAS ACCUSED OF, and was EXECUTED ANYWAY, then present the case and make your point.

It seems to me that the system is working as well as anything involving human beings can work. Those who were guilty were executed, those who weren't were proven innocent before they were executed.

My opinion, we should be executing MORE of them, not less. For every Rolando Cruz (dirtbag who may not have done what he was accused of) you have a Richard Spec (Guilty as a cat in a canary cage, allowed to live by idiot judges.)

I am a licensed private detective, not part of the criminal justice system.
You really are stupid. Keep it up.
I changed my mind. Do not give it up. You are very funny.

 

[JoeB131]

I am a licensed private detective, not part of the criminal justice system.
You really are stupid. Keep it up.
I changed my mind. Do not give it up. You are very funny.

Oh, I see. Professional Cockroach. Got it.

Dealt with one of you guys once. Tried to prove employees were stealing from a company I worked for. Made whole bunches of baseless accusations, never made a case stick in court, a few complaitants even filed lawsuits and the company eventually went out of business, almost restoring my faith in a just God.

Real law enforcement people consider you scum, for good reason. Wannabees. Mall cops get more respect. (And deserve it.)

 

[Flopper]

What do you mean, "We haven't found that person yet"? There have been 17 people EXONERATED by DNA. Many more were AQUITTED at re-trial.

Innocence: List of Those Freed From Death Row | Death Penalty Information Center

As for, "I guess the reason I don't lose a lot of sleep over the issue is that the kinds of people who get "wrongly convicted" usually did a bunch of bad stuff that they were never caught doing." That is just plain wrong no matter how you slice it.

.

What you haven't found is a wrongly executed person. You've found people who got death penalties, didn't actually commit the crimes they were convicted of, but committed plenty of others.

You look at your "exonerated" criminals, you get clowns like Rolando Cruz. Been in trouble with the law before, have been in trouble since.

How does one find "a wrongly executed person"?
With a shovel or backhoe?
Iran and China do it your way. Shotgun effect. Go ahead and execute folks. They are probably guilty.

You don't. For obvious reason the state has no interest in opening such a case. The guilty is not going to pursue it. As time passes, evidence and witnesses disappears and often there is no one who really cares.

I think one of the strongest arguments against the death penalty is the cost. The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. For example: California could save $1 billion over five years by replacing the death penalty with permanent imprisonment. In New Jersey, which halted executions in 2007, a commission found that switching a single condemned inmate’s sentence to life without parole would save the state $1.3 million in incarceration costs alone, because death-row inmates receive special housing and security.

Death Penalty : The High Cost of the Death Penalty
Debating the Cost of Capital Punishment | Parade.com

 

[Gadawg73]

You can frame abortion however you want but as far as a numerical limit to how many abortions are acceptable? There is no limit. If a woman wants to have an abortion, she can have it. Of course, this excludes illegal abortions.

Now, care to actually answer the question in the OP instead of dodging/deflecting?

Speaking of "framed", the OP's question is framed and not intended for honest debate, so the OP was nothing but a ****** ass deflection in itself, along with the "personal choice" bullshit answer to my question. To answer the OP's troll question, my opinion, along with any other fair minded person is we would not want to see any innocent person executed. On that note, how many sociopathic, no good, ass murdering pieces of shit such as the one in the OP's article deserve to breathe the same air as you and i do?

Now let the real deflections begin!

My opinion is that society has a right to defend itself;

It does not have the right to be vengeful. In my opinion, the death penalty is nothing but vengeance since by the statistical fact that year after year, Texas leads the nation in executions. If it were a deterrent, it would not lead the nation year after year; murders would be on the vast decline in the state and therefore the numbers on death row would be lower and lower.

Now, while I do not support the death penalty, (this may be off the topic) I do favor uniform sentencing. I cannot understand why if you kill a cop, you get the needle and if you happen to kill a non-cop, you may 'only' get life in prison or even a lesser sentence.

I would say this though...that if society is going to kill the most vile criminials; why is murder the threshold? Bernard Madoff probably did more harm to more people than a great many people on death row. Some of the espionage cases that jeopardize national security....it would seem as though they did more damage to the nation than a guy whose emotions got the better of him and killed someone.

I'm against the death penalty, make no mistake. But if you're going to break out the heavy lumber on a criminal, there are several crimes beyond murder that, I feel would warrant the use of it.

The death penalty deters the person that did murder from ever doing it again.
However, the death peanalty does not deter crime of any kind. Additionally, it will never be uniformly applied. I have seen multiple murders where the prosecutor never asked for the death penalty.
You folks need to understand the United States Constitution. ALL defendants are presumed innocent. The burden is on the prosecution to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The FACTS of the case differ in every case and the ability of the prosecution to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt based on all of the facts varies FROM CASE TO CASE.
That in itself should rule out the death penalty as there is NO way to ever uniformly apply it.