What with all this talk of homosexuality

[Bullypulpit]

Was it agent orange that did this to you Bully?

Vietnam was a bit before my time, I was only 8 at the time of the TET offensive.

Like so many others here, you cannot debate the issue in a meaningful manner, so you result to childisn and innane insults. Dismissed.

 

[sitarro]

Vietnam was a bit before my time, I was only 8 at the time of the TET offensive.

Like so many others here, you cannot debate the issue in a meaningful manner, so you result to childisn and innane insults. Dismissed.

So you are just plain nuts then?:teeth:

 

[Bullypulpit]

So you are just plain nuts then?:teeth:

Like so many others here, you cannot debate the issue in a meaningful manner, so you result to childisn and innane insults.

You just proved the point. Dismissed.

 

[mattskramer]

Thanks, I'll try. First of all I'm sure you agree that it is natural for babies to be created by one man and one woman. Thus biological relationships have always been the basis of the natural family unit. Gays have never had "natural" families. The natural family unit has been the basis of marriage. By allowing gay people to marry we would be changing the whole basis of the natural family unit from one of biological family relationships to one of contractual family relationships. This is a huge seismic shift, despite the argument that marriage has been considered a "contract" sanctioned by either religion or government. Marriage has always been centered on the biological family unit despite its contractual elements. If we allowed gay marriage, marriage would essentially change its basis from natural to un-natural or non-natural. Marriage would then not be focussed on the natural biological family but solely on a relationship between two unrelated people. It would be more comparable to a relationship between two companies. A merger is based solely on a contractual relationship, not a biological relationship. Who would be the losers of such a shift in perspective? The children, of course. Society would also lose as it would lose it "roots" in nature.

You are right that there are probably very few gay people who would actually get married and probably even fewer still who would adopt or have babies via sperm donors or birth mothers. All these methods are un-natural in basis. Same thing goes for straight parents but with one great difference. As a man and a woman they have the natural potential to be parents and thus fit the marrige profile. Gays do not have that natural potential. Despite the fact that either couple could adopt, etc., I don't see any great reason to change the entire nature of society for the wants of so few gays.

I'd like to also add that since Man started messing with Mother Nature in the baby department, the proverbial Pandora's Box has been opened and already we are realizing many of the un-natural problems we can create. I was just watching Law & Order last night which had a story where a woman saw a child (after losing her own artificially inseminated child burned to dust in a tanker/car accident) who looked just like hers and she wound up stalking the child and harassing the child's parents and creating general havoc to get "her"? child back. It turned out the child actually WAS hers biologically, an additional child of hers through implantation of one of her eggs into another woman who was the birth mother of the child. This happened because of an unscrupulous doctor at the artificial insemination center who used her good eggs to implant other women without her knowledge. Very confusing, but the bottom line is many people, espeically the child, were hurt as a result of such un-natural procedures. Such scientific procedures should be used for limited reasons and with extreme caution imo. Bottom line: we need to remain grounded in Mother Nature as much as possible or else Mankind will suffer.

ScreamingEagle

Okay. I’m glad that you included the modifier “Such scientific procedures should be used for limited reasons and with extreme caution imo”. For a moment, I thought that you were a complete advocate of “natural law” without exception. I guess that you understand that Mother Nature is amoral. Just because something is natural does not make it good or bad. Some human invention and intervention has resulted some bad consequences. Yet, it has also resulted in over-all good things in different areas. Consider invasive surgery & chemotherapy for cancer, adoption services for families wanting children and for children wanting families. Would you end such things if there is an occasional accident in a hospital or an occasional dispute during an adoption process.

Anyway, having considered the issue of gay marriage from a variety of angles, I still think that, as a whole, the likely good results would, at least to a tiny extent, outweigh the bad.

In conclusion, as a side note: So many postings here are little more than “loud”, fallacious, heated, emotion laden, thoughtless rhetoric and personal attacks. Thanks for the seemingly thought out, reasonably sound, non-insulting reply. Have a good weekend.

 

[roomy]

I had no idea that when I started this thread it would lead to such a bitter and protracted debate on the morals or lack of concerning homosexuals, homophobes, bisexuals, heterosexuals and IhavenoideawhatIamuals.Having followed the ups and down and ins and outs I have to say, I am bemused.Nevertheless, it has never been anything less than entertaining, carry on all.

 

[Gunny]

I had no idea that when I started this thread it would lead to such a bitter and protracted debate on the morals or lack of concerning homosexuals, homophobes, bisexuals, heterosexuals and IhavenoideawhatIamuals.Having followed the ups and down and ins and outs I have to say, I am bemused.Nevertheless, it has never been anything less than entertaining, carry on all.

Instigator.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Chimpy McPresident (a.k.a. Dubbyuh) will be giving a speech supporting a Constitutional amendment banning same-gender marriage. Bill Frist is speaking in support of an amendment banning the burning of the US flag. While they're at it, why don't they sponsor an amendment requiring couples to get married wrapped in the flag?

A desperate GOP is working to whip the lunatic fringe base into a homophobic, red, white and blue lather with issues which directly impact on...ummmm...nobody. This especially when they're getting killed on issues of national and world import such as the war in Iraq...the burgeoning national debt...stagnant wages...global warming...and the list goes on.

God forbid we should focus on something affecting us all. After all, we can't have these upity homosexuals turning us all into sex-starved homosexyuls and fornicators while they burn the flag, now can we.

Anyone who falls for that tired old GOP bullshit should really look into getting themselves sterilized. They're just dragging the rest of the gene pool down with them

Speaking of gene pools, we know that homosexuality is an aberration.

Is there some reason why conservatives should allow an aberration to be key wedge issue in the taking over of our traditions, our court system, ultimately our whole democratic system? This issue does affect us all. I think you underestimate the forces behind the "gay rights" movement.

Instead you think "global warming" is more important? Put on some sunglasses.

You are correct about the GOP being desperate....but the fact that they have become lefties on other issues does not mean we shouldn't at least support the couple conservative issues left to us.

 

[sitarro]

Like so many others here, you cannot debate the issue in a meaningful manner, so you result to childisn and innane insults.

You just proved the point. Dismissed.

Oh excuse me, I didn't think that calling the President a chimp and parroting the tired crap pasted off of that illiterate DU site was adult debating techniques. You aren't worthy Bullshit, you have nothing...........Your poodle has more skill.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Speaking of gene pools, we know that homosexuality is an aberration.

Is there some reason why conservatives should allow an aberration to be key wedge issue in the taking over of our traditions, our court system, ultimately our whole democratic system? This issue does affect us all. I think you underestimate the forces behind the "gay rights" movement.

Instead you think "global warming" is more important? Put on some sunglasses.

You are correct about the GOP being desperate....but the fact that they have become lefties on other issues does not mean we shouldn't at least support the couple conservative issues left to us.

I see that you made no mention of the war in Iraq...the burgeoning national debt...stagnant wages...etc. And given the preponderance of evidence FOR human activity changing the environment and it potential to impact the globe, that you take it so lightly is amazing, but not surprising.

If y'all think banning same-gender marriages or flag burning will make this nation one whit safer, you go ahead and think that. And when some terrorist whacko, foreign or homegrown, kills a few thousand people on American soil, you won't have anyone to blame but yourselves.

As for abberations, is B&D alright if only straight people do it? Or do we need a Constitutional amendment banning everything but the missionary position?

 

[roomy]

Instigator.

What a proper bastard I am:teeth:

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I see that you made no mention of the war in Iraq...the burgeoning national debt...stagnant wages...etc. And given the preponderance of evidence FOR human activity changing the environment and it potential to impact the globe, that you take it so lightly is amazing, but not surprising.

If y'all think banning same-gender marriages or flag burning will make this nation one whit safer, you go ahead and think that. And when some terrorist whacko, foreign or homegrown, kills a few thousand people on American soil, you won't have anyone to blame but yourselves.

As for abberations, is B&D alright if only straight people do it? Or do we need a Constitutional amendment banning everything but the missionary position?

First, by pointing out the dangers of the "gay rights" movement, that does not mean I think other topics are of any less importance. It is however, one topic our elected leader and the conservative base still agree on. Also I do not believe human activity is the cause of any significant global warming at this time.


Second, I don't really think we have to worry about gays doing much with Black and Decker.

 

[nt250]

I don't like being told I have to put up with other peoples behavior or I'm a hateful, homophobic, bigot.

Homosexuals are the only class of people in the history of the world who have managed to get laws passed that tell other people how they're supposed to react, or not react, to their behavior. Sexual behavoir at that.

All "gay rights" laws do is legislate the reaction to a personal habit. A personal habit that some people find disgusting.

I mean, for cyring out loud, what's next? The Nose Pickers Who Eat It Alliance?

 

[dilloduck]

I don't like being told I have to put up with other peoples behavior or I'm a hateful, homophobic, bigot.

Homosexuals are the only class of people in the history of the world who have managed to get laws passed that tell other people how they're supposed to react, or not react, to their behavior. Sexual behavoir at that.

All "gay rights" laws do is legislate the reaction to a personal habit. A personal habit that some people find disgusting.

I mean, for cyring out loud, what's next? The Nose Pickers Who Eat It Alliance?

How do you feel about "Yield" signs?:teeth:

 

[nt250]

How do you feel about "Yield" signs?:teeth:

OK, I admit it. I don't get it.

Yield signs?

 

[Dr Grump]

I don't like being told I have to put up with other peoples behavior or I'm a hateful, homophobic, bigot.

Homosexuals are the only class of people in the history of the world who have managed to get laws passed that tell other people how they're supposed to react, or not react, to their behavior. Sexual behavoir at that.

All "gay rights" laws do is legislate the reaction to a personal habit. A personal habit that some people find disgusting.

I mean, for cyring out loud, what's next? The Nose Pickers Who Eat It Alliance?

As long as you legislate against a behaviour that has no affect on you, and you do so only based on YOUR opinions/thoughts etc, then sorry, it's bigotted and homophobic...You many not like being called that, but a certain behaviour is a certain behaviour. It's like calling homosexuality birdwatching. You don't like being called homophobic or bigotted? Change your behaviour. Simple...

 

[Bullypulpit]

First, by pointing out the dangers of the "gay rights" movement, that does not mean I think other topics are of any less importance. It is however, one topic our elected leader and the conservative base still agree on. Also I do not believe human activity is the cause of any significant global warming at this time.


Second, I don't really think we have to worry about gays doing much with Black and Decker.

Chimpy's little speech isn't about actually doing anything, which is what he should be doing on the issue anyways...NOTHING. It is, however about sagging poll numbers and the alienation of the lunatic fringe, read as 'the base', of the GOP by recent faux pas like the Dubai Ports deal and the immigration issue, among others. James Dobson says "Jump!", and given the GOP poll numbers, it's for Dubbyuh and the GOP leadership to ask "How high?".

This whole issue is a fabrication used by the "Uniter" to divide the country against itself when it needs to pull together the most. That particular brand of treachery has been a hallmark of the Bush Administration since it came to power.

As for the "dangers" of the gay rights movement, I have yet to see any manifested. But then, I don't have any nagging doubts about my sexual orientation to overcompensate for.

 

[mattskramer]

I don't like being told I have to put up with other peoples behavior...

The same applies to me. I don’t like being told that I have to up with smokers and drinkers and left-handed people. I don’t like being told that I have to put up with people who wear makeup. Eye shadow and lipstick is so unnatural. Also, I don't like paying taxes.

Homosexuals are the only class of people in the history of the world who have managed to get laws passed that tell other people how they're supposed to react, or not react, to their behavior. Sexual behavoir at that.

All "gay rights" laws do is legislate the reaction to a personal habit. A personal habit that some people find disgusting.

Oh! Sorry, but I just had to respond to this one. It was so easy. Think, people. Think. Two words should be sufficient: “School prayer”. No? Okay. I’ll expand on it and help you make the connection. People who choose to pray in public school tell those who don’t pray in school how to react. I’m sorry but I just didn’t like those times in school when I was seeing people bowing their heads and praying (even when they were doing it silently) while I was proceeding to eat. Don’t tell me that I’m Christ-phobic. Smoking is another example. Non-smokers tell smokers where they may not smoke. There are probably other examples but this should be enough to knock that argument out of the water.

 

[Gunny]

Chimpy's little speech isn't about actually doing anything, which is what he should be doing on the issue anyways...NOTHING. It is, however about sagging poll numbers and the alienation of the lunatic fringe, read as 'the base', of the GOP by recent faux pas like the Dubai Ports deal and the immigration issue, among others. James Dobson says "Jump!", and given the GOP poll numbers, it's for Dubbyuh and the GOP leadership to ask "How high?".

This whole issue is a fabrication used by the "Uniter" to divide the country against itself when it needs to pull together the most. That particular brand of treachery has been a hallmark of the Bush Administration since it came to power.

As for the "dangers" of the gay rights movement, I have yet to see any manifested. But then, I don't have any nagging doubts about my sexual orientation to overcompensate for.

Hate to break your rotten, fascist heart, but the facts are these: Bush could never have been Governor of Texas without being a "uniter." The liberals hold WAY too much power in this state. He tried the same approach when he went to DC.

It's your precious little Dem-o-crap party refusing to compromise on any-and-everything that has divided this Nation if any.

And this issue of trying to shove the abnormal sexual deviance of 10% or less of the population down the other 90+%'s throats is a prime example of THAT.

 

[nt250]

The same applies to me. I don’t like being told that I have to up with smokers and drinkers and left-handed people. I don’t like being told that I have to put up with people who wear makeup. Eye shadow and lipstick is so unnatural. Also, I don't like paying taxes.



Oh! Sorry, but I just had to respond to this one. It was so easy. Think, people. Think. Two words should be sufficient: “School prayer”. No? Okay. I’ll expand on it and help you make the connection. People who choose to pray in public school tell those who don’t pray in school how to react. I’m sorry but I just didn’t like those times in school when I was seeing people bowing their heads and praying (even when they were doing it silently) while I was proceeding to eat. Don’t tell me that I’m Christ-phobic. Smoking is another example. Non-smokers tell smokers where they may not smoke. There are probably other examples but this should be enough to knock that argument out of the water.

Are you a moron or do you just play one on the internet?

Your two examples, school prayer and smoking, actually undermine your argument.

Let's take school prayer first. How many Christian groups have managed to get laws passed that demand that their children be allowed to pray in a public school? None that I know of. It's up to each school district and each principal what they'll put up with. I worked with a devout Christian and even after the Supreme Court ruled that student led prayer should be allowed, I heard him on the phone many times with the school complaining about his daughter being bullied for carrying a bible. By the fucking teachers! Maybe in the South they're more tolerant of religion in schools, but they sure as hell aren't here in Massachusetts.

Smoking. Now you hit me where I live. I, too, perform a behavior that many people find disgusting. I smoke. I think it's absolutely hilarious whenever a gay rights advocate uses the smoking agrument. Heads up: they've passed laws that STOP me from performing my behavior that so disgusts others. The gay rights movement has passed laws that pevent people from showing disgust. Get it?

It's the tactics of the gay rights movement that I find so horrendous. I don't give a rats ass what two people do in the privacy of their own homes, or out behind the rest area on 95, but keep it the hell away from my kid and my kids school. You want your 6 year old to read Heather Has Two Mommies? Fine, read it to them, but keep it out of my kids school.

I should have the right to be offended by the behavior of others. And I should have the right to judge people based on the behavior they display. If you pick your nose and eat it, it's not enough that I never see you do it. I don't want to know that you have ever done it, because as much as you may enjoy it, I find it a disgusting personal habit.

 

[sitarro]

Hate to break your rotten, fascist heart, but the facts are these: Bush could never have been Governor of Texas without being a "uniter." The liberals hold WAY too much power in this state. He tried the same approach when he went to DC.

It's your precious little Dem-o-crap party refusing to compromise on any-and-everything that has divided this Nation if any.

And this issue of trying to shove the abnormal sexual deviance of 10% or less of the population down the other 90+%'s throats is a prime example of THAT.

That is so damn correct Gunny. Bully is one of the many that ignore reality and filled with hate because his party got their ass kicked, will twist facts and out right lie and in doing so undermines the country he supposedly loves. All of those assholes in Congress on the left do the same, they are helping the enemy in a pathetic attempt to regain power for what, to continue to do whatever will get them elected again. If John Kennedy was alive he would kick that fat assed, drunk brother of his for being a traitor to his country.

If you have ever known a homosexual, you know that marriage and monogamy in general is completely against the whole lifestyle. This whole issue is bullshit and a waste of time.