What the Palestinian Authority Thinks Concerning a Palestinians State in the WB

toastman

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"The Palestinian Authority on Thursday rejected any Israeli plans to retain territory or even maintain a security presence on any portion of the West Bank or east Jerusalem after the establishment of an independent Palestinian state."


:lol: :lol:

Ya, ok Abbas, because YOU are going to decide weather Israel decides to have presence in E. Jerusalem and the Jordan Valley.

This guy is beyond delusional
 
docmauser1, P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

These are mutually exclusive issues:

  • The Right of Return
  • Security Presence

They have little to do with each other.

Of course it does in view that palistanians don't want a state that precludes the "return" of their bogus refugees! hehehehehe
(COMMENT)

Both Armistice and Peace Treaty talks presuppose that there is a happy medium in which reasonable parties can reach and agree upon.

The Security Presence issue has two general aspects to it.

  • The first is that the Arab League has demonstrated in the past that it will attack without warning. So the presence creates both a buffer region and a barrier for security in depth.

  • The is is that both Palestinian Jihadist and Fedayeen, left to their own devices, will abuse the freedom that a withdrawal of security forces would give them, and use that freedom to reconstitute insurgency and terrorism platforms.

On the other hand, the Right of Return, is also a two fold issue.

  • The first being the implication of admitting an enemy population (Palestinian Jihadist and Fedayeen and supporters) into the sovereign regions of Israel that create an unacceptable security threat.

  • The second being the economic impact of allowing an mass horde of unemployed and parasitic Palestinians for which there is no reasonable expectation that they can make a positive contribution to the society which they demand access.

Some "Right of Return" Advocates estimate that there are some 7.2 million Palestinian refugees worldwide. They include:

Registered
  • 4.3 million Palestinian refugees and their descendants displaced in 1948
Unregistered
  • 1.7 million Palestinian refugees and their descendants, also displaced in 1948,
Other Palestinians
  • 355,000 Palestinians and their descendants are internally displaced
  • 1967 refugees and their descendants today number about 834,000 persons.

Until such time that some reasonableness is injected into the equation, it is unlikely that the settlement negations will have widespread support among the Palestinians. And that will lead to a continued security threat.

The Palestinians are not considered, by any measure we can see, by any regional neighbor, a positive influence which they would want to accept. Thus, there has been no real dissipation and integration of the Palestinians.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
pbel, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine. Left unsupervised, there is no reasonable expectation that it will not explode into a regional influence that supports wide scale insurgency and terrorist activity.

That makes perfect sense.

According to Palestinians it does. But it's not going to happen. Sorry

If Israel wants a permanent peace then the occupation must end...
(COMMENT)

What happens if the Occupation ends? There are consequences to ending the Occupation.

Currently, the Palestinians is not capable, either politically or practically, of subduing the Jihadist and Fedayeen, or suppressing terrorist and criminal behaviors. The Palestinian is not capable of supporting its own wait. Even the Palestinians want to get rid of their ow Palestinian Refugees, because they are not productive.

Most Respectfully,
R
 

It’s more than laughably pathetic to believe a “Palestanian” state would be any different than the Islamic terrorist stronghold it is currently.

The Qassam rockets with which the “Palestinians” have peppered Israel have had relatively little effect, as one would expect from lightweight homemade projectiles of their sort. Their suicide bombers have slaughtered many innocents, and are justly regarded by all but islamist terrorists as unspeakably vile, but like all cases of intended suicide in the name of islam: the perpetrator dies in the attack. That leaves his connection to any larger organization or movement a wee bit of a problem for the “cause” he is committing murder on behalf of.

In a very real sense, Israel would be at a real advantage with an adjoining islamist terrorist state of “Palestine”. The very first time a barrage of rockets was launched at the Israeli homeland, there would be nothing to prevent Israel from responding with overwhelming force in retaliation as any nation might do to protect its citizens from an act of war.
 
That makes perfect sense.

According to Palestinians it does. But it's not going to happen. Sorry

It’s more than laughably pathetic to believe a “Palestanian” state would be any different than the Islamic terrorist stronghold it is currently.

The Qassam rockets with which the “Palestinians” have peppered Israel have had relatively little effect, as one would expect from lightweight homemade projectiles of their sort. Their suicide bombers have slaughtered many innocents, and are justly regarded by all but islamist terrorists as unspeakably vile, but like all cases of intended suicide in the name of islam: the perpetrator dies in the attack. That leaves his connection to any larger organization or movement a wee bit of a problem for the “cause” he is committing murder on behalf of.

In a very real sense, Israel would be at a real advantage with an adjoining islamist terrorist state of “Palestine”. The very first time a barrage of rockets was launched at the Israeli homeland, there would be nothing to prevent Israel from responding with overwhelming force in retaliation as any nation might do to protect its citizens from an act of war.

Very good assessment. If a Palestinian State officially acts in a hostile manner the IDF would be right to secure any danger...But Israel needs to at least arm a Palestinian Police Force capable to enforce its will in the new State to maintain order. There will be however individual acts of terrorism on both sides. Only peace and time will dis-arm extremists.
 
According to Palestinians it does. But it's not going to happen. Sorry

It’s more than laughably pathetic to believe a “Palestanian” state would be any different than the Islamic terrorist stronghold it is currently.

The Qassam rockets with which the “Palestinians” have peppered Israel have had relatively little effect, as one would expect from lightweight homemade projectiles of their sort. Their suicide bombers have slaughtered many innocents, and are justly regarded by all but islamist terrorists as unspeakably vile, but like all cases of intended suicide in the name of islam: the perpetrator dies in the attack. That leaves his connection to any larger organization or movement a wee bit of a problem for the “cause” he is committing murder on behalf of.

In a very real sense, Israel would be at a real advantage with an adjoining islamist terrorist state of “Palestine”. The very first time a barrage of rockets was launched at the Israeli homeland, there would be nothing to prevent Israel from responding with overwhelming force in retaliation as any nation might do to protect its citizens from an act of war.

Very good assessment. If a Palestinian State officially acts in a hostile manner the IDF would be right to secure any danger...But Israel needs to at least arm a Palestinian Police Force capable to enforce its will in the new State to maintain order. There will be however individual acts of terrorism on both sides. Only peace and time will dis-arm extremists.

Why would Israel be responsible for arming a “Palestinian” police force?

If the “palestinians” are going to be tasked with managing their own government, that government must be able to address the issues of safety and security for its citizens.

Secondly, Israel arming a “Palestinian” police force won’t sit at all with Hamas which I suspect is going to be the spoiler in any attempt at “Palestinian” statehood. HAMAS is clearly bent on an all-out war against Israel, whether or not it's openly declared. That's the only course consistent with its Islamist foundation.

I’ll accept a side-step for a moment here but, clearly, the “Palestinians” in Gaza and the West Bank are most significant regionally as a flail with which the Middle Eastern Moslem satrapies flog Israel. Those states are not interested in a "solution" to the "Palestinian problem;" they seek the destruction of Israel, and will be satisfied with nothing less.

Given the Islamist attitude toward "the Zionist entity," one could expect nothing else from this cancer on the Middle East.

That won't alter the consequences of such lunacy, of course.
 
It’s more than laughably pathetic to believe a “Palestanian” state would be any different than the Islamic terrorist stronghold it is currently.

The Qassam rockets with which the “Palestinians” have peppered Israel have had relatively little effect, as one would expect from lightweight homemade projectiles of their sort. Their suicide bombers have slaughtered many innocents, and are justly regarded by all but islamist terrorists as unspeakably vile, but like all cases of intended suicide in the name of islam: the perpetrator dies in the attack. That leaves his connection to any larger organization or movement a wee bit of a problem for the “cause” he is committing murder on behalf of.

In a very real sense, Israel would be at a real advantage with an adjoining islamist terrorist state of “Palestine”. The very first time a barrage of rockets was launched at the Israeli homeland, there would be nothing to prevent Israel from responding with overwhelming force in retaliation as any nation might do to protect its citizens from an act of war.

Very good assessment. If a Palestinian State officially acts in a hostile manner the IDF would be right to secure any danger...But Israel needs to at least arm a Palestinian Police Force capable to enforce its will in the new State to maintain order. There will be however individual acts of terrorism on both sides. Only peace and time will dis-arm extremists.

Why would Israel be responsible for arming a “Palestinian” police force?

If the “palestinians” are going to be tasked with managing their own government, that government must be able to address the issues of safety and security for its citizens.

Secondly, Israel arming a “Palestinian” police force won’t sit at all with Hamas which I suspect is going to be the spoiler in any attempt at “Palestinian” statehood. HAMAS is clearly bent on an all-out war against Israel, whether or not it's openly declared. That's the only course consistent with its Islamist foundation.

I’ll accept a side-step for a moment here but, clearly, the “Palestinians” in Gaza and the West Bank are most significant regionally as a flail with which the Middle Eastern Moslem satrapies flog Israel. Those states are not interested in a "solution" to the "Palestinian problem;" they seek the destruction of Israel, and will be satisfied with nothing less.

Given the Islamist attitude toward "the Zionist entity," one could expect nothing else from this cancer on the Middle East.

That won't alter the consequences of such lunacy, of course.

I think you are reaching for old attitudes...It is in Israel's interest to have a Palestinian government that can deliver on its promises...To not ensure a capable force that is in no danger to Israel is only asking Hamas for further terrorism.

Without a strong police force, there is no point to signing a peace deal.
 
pbel, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine. Left unsupervised, there is no reasonable expectation that it will not explode into a regional influence that supports wide scale insurgency and terrorist activity.

According to Palestinians it does. But it's not going to happen. Sorry

If Israel wants a permanent peace then the occupation must end...
(COMMENT)

What happens if the Occupation ends? There are consequences to ending the Occupation.

Currently, the Palestinians is not capable, either politically or practically, of subduing the Jihadist and Fedayeen, or suppressing terrorist and criminal behaviors. The Palestinian is not capable of supporting its own wait. Even the Palestinians want to get rid of their ow Palestinian Refugees, because they are not productive.

Most Respectfully,
R

And this is another main reason as to why Israel needs to control the Jordan Valley, because of the Palestinians do ever get the West Bank as their state, how can we trust them to not allow Jihadists entering from the East ?
 
pbel, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine. Left unsupervised, there is no reasonable expectation that it will not explode into a regional influence that supports wide scale insurgency and terrorist activity.

If Israel wants a permanent peace then the occupation must end...
(COMMENT)

What happens if the Occupation ends? There are consequences to ending the Occupation.

Currently, the Palestinians is not capable, either politically or practically, of subduing the Jihadist and Fedayeen, or suppressing terrorist and criminal behaviors. The Palestinian is not capable of supporting its own wait. Even the Palestinians want to get rid of their ow Palestinian Refugees, because they are not productive.

Most Respectfully,
R

And this is another main reason as to why Israel needs to control the Jordan Valley, because of the Palestinians do ever get the West Bank as their state, how can we trust them to not allow Jihadists entering from the East ?
Just keep strong forces and intelligence on the border surrounding the valley...
 
pbel, toastman, P F Tinmore, et al,

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine. Left unsupervised, there is no reasonable expectation that it will not explode into a regional influence that supports wide scale insurgency and terrorist activity.


(COMMENT)

What happens if the Occupation ends? There are consequences to ending the Occupation.

Currently, the Palestinians is not capable, either politically or practically, of subduing the Jihadist and Fedayeen, or suppressing terrorist and criminal behaviors. The Palestinian is not capable of supporting its own wait. Even the Palestinians want to get rid of their ow Palestinian Refugees, because they are not productive.

Most Respectfully,
R

And this is another main reason as to why Israel needs to control the Jordan Valley, because of the Palestinians do ever get the West Bank as their state, how can we trust them to not allow Jihadists entering from the East ?
Just keep strong forces and intelligence on the border surrounding the valley...
yes, that is an option as well.
However, the problem with that is...Abbas won't allow it..
 
And this is another main reason as to why Israel needs to control the Jordan Valley, because of the Palestinians do ever get the West Bank as their state, how can we trust them to not allow Jihadists entering from the East ?
Just keep strong forces and intelligence on the border surrounding the valley...
yes, that is an option as well.
However, the problem with that is...Abbas won't allow it..

certainly cameras and listening posts and UN peacekeepers for a reasonable time like 5-7 years should be allowed.
 
Very good assessment. If a Palestinian State officially acts in a hostile manner the IDF would be right to secure any danger...But Israel needs to at least arm a Palestinian Police Force capable to enforce its will in the new State to maintain order. There will be however individual acts of terrorism on both sides. Only peace and time will dis-arm extremists.

Why would Israel be responsible for arming a “Palestinian” police force?

If the “palestinians” are going to be tasked with managing their own government, that government must be able to address the issues of safety and security for its citizens.

Secondly, Israel arming a “Palestinian” police force won’t sit at all with Hamas which I suspect is going to be the spoiler in any attempt at “Palestinian” statehood. HAMAS is clearly bent on an all-out war against Israel, whether or not it's openly declared. That's the only course consistent with its Islamist foundation.

I’ll accept a side-step for a moment here but, clearly, the “Palestinians” in Gaza and the West Bank are most significant regionally as a flail with which the Middle Eastern Moslem satrapies flog Israel. Those states are not interested in a "solution" to the "Palestinian problem;" they seek the destruction of Israel, and will be satisfied with nothing less.

Given the Islamist attitude toward "the Zionist entity," one could expect nothing else from this cancer on the Middle East.

That won't alter the consequences of such lunacy, of course.

I think you are reaching for old attitudes...It is in Israel's interest to have a Palestinian government that can deliver on its promises...To not ensure a capable force that is in no danger to Israel is only asking Hamas for further terrorism.

Without a strong police force, there is no point to signing a peace deal.

Reaching for old attitudes? I would have to agree but it’s done with acknowledgement of an objective reality in connection with the various islamist groups in “Palestinian” controlled areas.
We’re all aware that "Palestinian" "President" Mahmoud Abbas has previously applied to the United Nations for full recognition as a sovereign state. But have you asked yourself what, in the unlikely event that the United States does not veto the suggestion in the Security Council, it would actually mean?

Hey, wait a minute... Didn't Mahmoud Abbas write a Holocaust denial book as his doctoral thesis?

History News Network | Was Abu Mazen a Holocaust Denier?

Hey! Well, I guess it doesn't matter anyway, because this is all just duplicitous chicanery. It's just window dressing on the dirty, cracked, and broken window that is Palestinian Arab society. Abbas just wants to maintain that patina of moderation that the MSM believe in.

Historically, sovereignty is a condition that's conceded by one's neighbors: principally by not invading and dismembering one's country; secondarily by conducting diplomatic relations. It's never been a status awarded by some supra-national certification agency. The notion strikes me as an exercise in foolishness disguised as a political ploy. Were Israel to ignore a UN grant of full membership to "Palestine," continue to forbid arms shipments into those zones, and blockade the Gaza ports, the practical aspects of things would remain as they are. So what's the point?

The point, of course, is to provide an enhanced pretext for cynical moral outrage at the Israelis.

Abbas's speech before the General Assembly was rife with overwrought statements about the "Zionist occupier" and how “Palestinians” should be allowed at last to "lead normal lives." (Yes, yes, they demand East Jerusalem back too, but that's old news). They really want to drive the Jews into the sea, and they say so in any number of pronouncements spoken and written, so the East Jerusalem claim is just noxious icing on an already foul cake. In point of fact, the only abnormalities "Palestinians" endure today, under the internal autonomy Israel has granted them within their zones, are fruits of "Palestinian" violence: specifically, violence directed at Israel, Israelis, and Jews generally. Nor is the world at large unaware of that.

Under the pretext of statehood, "Palestine" would have a cosmetic "right" to armed forces and control of its own borders and ports: a "right" which, if respected, would allow the importation of military hardware that could then be used to amplify the "Palestinians'" campaign to destroy Israel. Inasmuch as the Israelis are fully aware of this, should the UN "grant recognition of sovereignty" to "Palestine," Israeli control of ingress to the autonomous zones would continue. However, should other Arab/Muslim states then league with "Palestine" in the effort to "liberate" its borders and ports, we wouldn't have a publicity stunt; we'd have a war.
 
Why would Israel be responsible for arming a “Palestinian” police force?

If the “palestinians” are going to be tasked with managing their own government, that government must be able to address the issues of safety and security for its citizens.

Secondly, Israel arming a “Palestinian” police force won’t sit at all with Hamas which I suspect is going to be the spoiler in any attempt at “Palestinian” statehood. HAMAS is clearly bent on an all-out war against Israel, whether or not it's openly declared. That's the only course consistent with its Islamist foundation.

I’ll accept a side-step for a moment here but, clearly, the “Palestinians” in Gaza and the West Bank are most significant regionally as a flail with which the Middle Eastern Moslem satrapies flog Israel. Those states are not interested in a "solution" to the "Palestinian problem;" they seek the destruction of Israel, and will be satisfied with nothing less.

Given the Islamist attitude toward "the Zionist entity," one could expect nothing else from this cancer on the Middle East.

That won't alter the consequences of such lunacy, of course.

I think you are reaching for old attitudes...It is in Israel's interest to have a Palestinian government that can deliver on its promises...To not ensure a capable force that is in no danger to Israel is only asking Hamas for further terrorism.

Without a strong police force, there is no point to signing a peace deal.

Reaching for old attitudes? I would have to agree but it’s done with acknowledgement of an objective reality in connection with the various islamist groups in “Palestinian” controlled areas.
We’re all aware that "Palestinian" "President" Mahmoud Abbas has previously applied to the United Nations for full recognition as a sovereign state. But have you asked yourself what, in the unlikely event that the United States does not veto the suggestion in the Security Council, it would actually mean?

Hey, wait a minute... Didn't Mahmoud Abbas write a Holocaust denial book as his doctoral thesis?

History News Network | Was Abu Mazen a Holocaust Denier?

Hey! Well, I guess it doesn't matter anyway, because this is all just duplicitous chicanery. It's just window dressing on the dirty, cracked, and broken window that is Palestinian Arab society. Abbas just wants to maintain that patina of moderation that the MSM believe in.

Historically, sovereignty is a condition that's conceded by one's neighbors: principally by not invading and dismembering one's country; secondarily by conducting diplomatic relations. It's never been a status awarded by some supra-national certification agency. The notion strikes me as an exercise in foolishness disguised as a political ploy. Were Israel to ignore a UN grant of full membership to "Palestine," continue to forbid arms shipments into those zones, and blockade the Gaza ports, the practical aspects of things would remain as they are. So what's the point?

The point, of course, is to provide an enhanced pretext for cynical moral outrage at the Israelis.

Abbas's speech before the General Assembly was rife with overwrought statements about the "Zionist occupier" and how “Palestinians” should be allowed at last to "lead normal lives." (Yes, yes, they demand East Jerusalem back too, but that's old news). They really want to drive the Jews into the sea, and they say so in any number of pronouncements spoken and written, so the East Jerusalem claim is just noxious icing on an already foul cake. In point of fact, the only abnormalities "Palestinians" endure today, under the internal autonomy Israel has granted them within their zones, are fruits of "Palestinian" violence: specifically, violence directed at Israel, Israelis, and Jews generally. Nor is the world at large unaware of that.

Under the pretext of statehood, "Palestine" would have a cosmetic "right" to armed forces and control of its own borders and ports: a "right" which, if respected, would allow the importation of military hardware that could then be used to amplify the "Palestinians'" campaign to destroy Israel. Inasmuch as the Israelis are fully aware of this, should the UN "grant recognition of sovereignty" to "Palestine," Israeli control of ingress to the autonomous zones would continue. However, should other Arab/Muslim states then league with "Palestine" in the effort to "liberate" its borders and ports, we wouldn't have a publicity stunt; we'd have a war.

One hundred fifty nukes, an array of field nukes, a superpower in the ME by all standards and you fear the stick and stone forces of Palestine?

Also the USA's imports from the ME of less than 13% and soon to be 0 as fracking makes us a net exporter, Israel's strategic importance to us is greatly diminished. Americans are tired of wars, its only a matter of time that Islam's countries will have armament parity. Even today, Pakistan has roughly a 120 nukes, and polls say the right and left hate Israel more than India.

It's Israel's move or the UN will recognize Palestine to the 67 borders and sanctions on Israel will follow.
 
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