What the hell takes $18 MILLION to build and maintain a website?

[jillian]

First of all, I am not "from the right" and not even center-right.

Secondly, there is NO WAY $18 MILLION freakin dollars spent re-vamping and maintaining a website for even TEN years, much less five, is "reasonable."

Comparing Obama to Booooosh really sets the bar low doesn't it? Can you see how stupid that is?

luv, ya sure aren't left of center.

but again, i don't know what's REASONABLE without comparison.

I thought it unreasonable to spend 1 million dollars on research to find out if prayer works.

so, it is Obama? is it government? or is it just what stuff costs?

i can't answer without more information and i don't give knee jerk responses about stuff like that. i might ultimately agree with you, but i'd need a heck of a lot more before i did. I'm sure not going to get the reflexive anger going over something like this.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

*edit* ok, i looked at your link... it's 18 million through 2014... is that out of the ordinary? is it inconsistent with contracts awarded during the last 8 years when you didn't care what they spent money on?

how does it compare to what we paid haliburton or blackwater over what it would have cost for our military to do their jobs?

Ahh.... The old "Mom, the other kid did it too" deflection. Where's the change?

nope... don't go there... i asked if it was UNREASONABLE in light of other similar expenditures....

answer that question and then I'll know if it's just more psuedo rage from the right.

Stop being dishonest. Read your own words, which I have bolded for you. You DID "go there."

"Mom, the other kid did it too" is the only argument you mindless Obamaphiles have.

it's 18 million through 2014... is that out of the ordinary?

"Change" means, NOT business as usual. NOT the same. Yesterday's bullshit was supposed to be OVER. So why should there be an "ordinary?" Why do you Obamaphiles have the bar for your David Koresh-like cult leader set so friggin low?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

i can't answer without more information and i don't give knee jerk responses about stuff like that

Here was your kneejerk response, paraphrased, of course:

"We know we cannot intelligently defend this, so first we will believe you're making it all up. When you show us you are not, then we will pretend you didn't show us. After that embarrassment, then we will still attempt to defend this nonsense because we are hopelessly devoted to Obama and are mindless little cult followers. We will do anything other than address the topic, and will instead dissemble, deflect, blame Booooosh and otherwise simply troll. Because we have learned from The Obama that since we cannot dazzle with brilliance, we will try to baffle with bullshit."

 

[chanel]

If the govt spends 18 mil for a 100k website how much will a colonoscopy.cost with govt run healthcare?

 

[Terry]

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If the govt spends 18 mil for a 100k website how much will a colonoscopy cost with govt run healthcare?

Probably zero, because they will make you wait so long for it you will likely die from another cause.

They have it ALL figured out!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

luv, ya sure aren't left of center.

I actually am, slightly. Were you paying attention you would know that.

But then again, far-left zealots such as yourself see anyone who isn't a far-left zealot loony tune as "from the right."

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Instead of getting all drama queenie and Neener neener at each other, why don't both of you do the math?

18,000,000 over six years is 3 million per year. Kind of high, but it is a government website that will have to have a large server population, plus extra security measures, plus a great deal of redundancy. Government web servers would, I presume, get tons of hits. Especially this one. I have seen folks on this thread mention 100k as a reasonable maintenance cost for a resonable sized web site. That seems kind of low.

This web page would have a huge data base of public records that have to be served, plus all the expense of providing the content. Web people don't come cheap either. You are talking lots of folks who would be getting 50,000 per year. and some admin folks and some accounting folks at about the same level. 100 folks working the web project would seem to me to be about reasonable, quite a few getting 25,000, not so many getting 30,000 and a bunch at the higher levels and we have our 3,000,000 a year in wages alone.

And the computers don't come free either. I think the useful life for a computer is about 40 months before it becomes horribly outdated. You have to figure in that number as well.

So while 3 mill per year is kind of spendy, it is probably in line with most government projects.

 

[jillian]

Change" means, NOT business as usual. NOT the same. Yesterday's bullshit was supposed to be OVER. So why should there be an "ordinary?" Why do you Obamaphiles have the bar for your David Koresh-like cult leader set so friggin low?

uh huh... right...

what a huge *yawn*... when he does anything, he's called an extremist, socialist, communist and every other type of name imaginable...

but you want him condemned without any freaking information at all for something that may or may not be a legitimate operating cost.

sorry...

And I've never been an "obamaphile"... I supported Hillary... but I think the right has made themselves stupid and the fake outrage is played out and has no credibility.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Instead of getting all drama queenie and Neener neener at each other, why don't both of you do the math?

18,000,000 over six years is 3 million per year. Kind of high, but it is a government website that will have to have a large server population, plus extra security measures, plus a great deal of redundancy. Government web servers would, I presume, get tons of hits. Especially this one. I have seen folks on this thread mention 100k as a reasonable maintenance cost for a resonable sized web site. That seems kind of low.

This web page would have a huge data base of public records that have to be served, plus all the expense of providing the content. Web people don't come cheap either. You are talking lots of folks who would be getting 50,000 per year. and some admin folks and some accounting folks at about the same level. 100 folks working the web project would seem to me to be about reasonable, quite a few getting 25,000, not so many getting 30,000 and a bunch at the higher levels and we have our 3,000,000 a year in wages alone.

And the computers don't come free either. I think the useful life for a computer is about 40 months before it becomes horribly outdated. You have to figure in that number as well.

So while 3 mill per year is kind of spendy, it is probably in line with most government projects.

And they don't even know how to repel script kiddie DDoS attacks.

And I agree, the 100K figure is as ridiculous as the 18M. I could see a million a year and call that thrifty. I might even accept 1.5 million a year, and call it "pricey." But not three. C'mon now.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Change" means, NOT business as usual. NOT the same. Yesterday's bullshit was supposed to be OVER. So why should there be an "ordinary?" Why do you Obamaphiles have the bar for your David Koresh-like cult leader set so friggin low?

uh huh... right...

what a huge *yawn*... when he does anything, he's called an extremist, socialist, communist and every other type of name imaginable...

but you want him condemned without any freaking information at all for something that may or may not be a legitimate operating cost.

sorry...

I want him accountable. Which in your world, probably means "condemned."

And I've never been an "obamaphile"...

"...Until Hillary was defeated. Then I sold my soul!"

Hey Jillian: As Hillary supporter, did you admire the courage of the 347 convention delegates who voted for her anyway, before all voting was ceased a quarter of the way through? Before Hillary herself fell in line and called a halt to the vote? Saving Obama the embarrassment of a close nomination vote from the delegates?

I do. They did that at great risk of future participation. But had the courage to say "NO" to Obama anyway.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Well, 3 mill per year is probably out of line for a private corporation. They do that kind of spending, and heads would roll. But this is government enterprise, there is a huge amount of content that has to be added in, (most private web pages wouldn't have anything like the documents government pages have to deal with) and the fact that any government web site gets traffic that most servers would regard as DOS levels, 3 mill isn't that bad.

I am inclined to agree that the price is about 3 times rational. But when dealing with government run anything, 3 times rational sort of comes out cheap.

 

[jillian]

So while 3 mill per year is kind of spendy, it is probably in line with most government projects.

which was all i was asking.

thanks.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I am inclined to agree that the price is about 3 times rational. But when dealing with government run anything, 3 times rational sort of comes out cheap.

But..... But..... But....

There was supposed to be change. Why is it okay that there's not? Shouldn't Obama be able to do better than those of the past? Why is the bar so low?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

So while 3 mill per year is kind of spendy, it is probably in line with most government projects.

which was all i was asking.

thanks.

But..... But..... But....

There was supposed to be change. Why is it okay that there's not? Shouldn't Obama be able to do better than those of the past? Why is the bar so low?

 

[jillian]

Until Hillary was defeated. Then I sold my soul!"

No, actually... more like, until McCain sold his soul to the religious nutbars and insulted our intelligence by allowing sarah a national forum.

and, frankly, the party of "no" has been an embarrassment since the election and hasn't given me any reason to think my vote would have been better spent on mccain. in fact, sawwah's recent antics have made me do the happy dance that her chances at national elective office are probably over.

Hey Jillian: As Hillary supporter, did you admire the courage of the 347 convention delegates who voted for her anyway, before all voting was ceased a quarter of the way through? Before Hillary herself fell in line and called a halt to the vote? Saving Obama the embarrassment of a close nomination vote from the delegates?

No. I didn't like the way the nomination was done,but not because I thought it would embarrass Obama... I thought it was simply underhanded and a way to punish Hillary for dragging out a campaign she knew she lost. It ticked me off. Thanks for asking.

I do. They did that at great risk of future participation. But had the courage to say "NO" to Obama anyway.

They wouldn't have said "no" to him. Super Tuesday kicked her butt.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

there is a huge amount of content that has to be added in, (most private web pages wouldn't have anything like the documents government pages have to deal with) and the fact that any government web site gets traffic that most servers would regard as DOS levels, 3 mill isn't that bad.

Yes, you would have a paid staff who uploads PDF files and images, and another staffer or two doing the coding, revising pages, etc. Security though, is mostly handled by another department, so would be the hardware end of it.

$3 million a year is quite pricey. And it's actually $4.5 since this year's already paid for.

Again, my original question: What the hell takes $18 MILLION to build and maintain a website?

What are they paying these people? Are there outside consultants or contractors? Where's this money actually going? What happened to "transparency?"

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Well, as long as we keep excusing this behavior by anybody, the bar just gets lower. I am in a cynical mode right now, so I sort of know what to expect from these people. They never disappoint.

I personally would like for someone who actually knows what this kind of thing would cost to run the numbers. I just did some wild ass guessing.

I do know that the bank I worked at ran a huge web side with only 8 folks in the programming staff, 9 including the manager. But they also had huge server farms and proxy walls and other stuff I didn't see because the actual servers were in some location that was kept secret from everybody. But the content was mostly daily bank operations as applied to your accounts.

So I would like to have a better understanding of this. What is the size of the staff, for real, What is the size of the content, for real. What would a private enterprise actually pay for this kind of document storage and retrieval? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

And I've never been an "obamaphile"...

"...Until Hillary was defeated. Then I sold my soul!"

No, actually... more like, until McCain sold his soul to the religious nutbars and insulted our intelligence by allowing sarah a national forum

So, at least you now admit you're an Obamaphile. We're making progress!

Hey Jillian: As Hillary supporter, did you admire the courage of the 347 convention delegates who voted for her anyway, before all voting was ceased a quarter of the way through? Before Hillary herself fell in line and called a halt to the vote? Saving Obama the embarrassment of a close nomination vote from the delegates?

No.

You did NOT admire the courage of the "NO" delegates, the ones who voted for Hill anyway?

I didn't like the way the nomination was done,but not because I thought it would embarrass Obama... I thought it was simply underhanded and a way to punish Hillary for dragging out a campaign she knew she lost. It ticked me off. Thanks for asking.

I do. They did that at great risk of future participation. But had the courage to say "NO" to Obama anyway.

They wouldn't have said "no" to him. Super Tuesday kicked her butt.

But.... They DID say NO. They voted for Hillary anyway, at the convention. And most of them aren't delegates anymore, for that very reason.

 

[Meister]

MM, when I was in my mid twenties, I worked for a company that made click type torque wrenches for different private companies along with making them for the government. All the wrenches for the private companies were made with strict tolerance ranges. With the government we basically threw them together and made sure that they did click properly, tolerance ranges were not that important, and jacked up the price on them to about triple of what we charged the private sector. I guess some things just don't change.