What, specifically, do you think Obama has done wrong in terms of the economy?

[Avatar4321]

The more I think about this comment, the more I am convinced it's not just a biased rant. It's a lie. A complete and total lie. Whatever you think of the Obama stimulus plan, we all know the plan was not simply about increasing the debt.

Why do you feel the need to lie about this? Shouldn't your point of view be able to stand on its own with out lying?

Actually I think that statement has merit. Obama is a spend and tax liberal. Liberal 2.0. Spend us so far into debt, the only answer is obvious. Tax. And whom shall we tax? Well certainly not those who reaped the vast benefit from the Bush tax cuts. No, for them we will cut even more. Payroll cuts for them. Well, now we are spending more and taking in even less??? Fiscal insanity? Nope, Liberal 2.0. Of course all those who are getting tax cuts will agree. TAX THEM!!, TAX THE RICH!!!.

The dream lives on, they want rates above 50% again. They need to avenge that bastard Reagan. Obama is smart, very smart. He knew he couldn't come in tax guns blazing. Spend first, spend fast, spend a lot and keep spending. When you've spent enough you simply cry about revenues. And when you've cut enough for the sheeple, they will follow. This is exactly why I was screaming at the deal done last December. Obama snookered the GOP bigtime.

That's a fascinating view of reality. How do you rationalize the fact that Obama cut spending in 2010 and revenue is at its lowest levels in generations?

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Cut spending... haha that's a good one.

Spending hasnt been cut since we ended WW2.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why do YOU blame (or don't blame) Obama for the high unemployment rate? What policies of his (or lack thereof) have been detrimental in your opinion?

Support your answer with outside sources. Otherwise, don't waste your time answering. The same ole Republican/Democratic rhetoric isn't going to fly this time. I want hard data and analysis.

Why should I provide data and analysis? Do you understand the differences between Keynes theories and the stimulus that was passed? Do you have nay idea why, despite the fact that Keynes was probably right, the stimulus was a complete failure? Do you know why businesses work on long term plans, and the idea that the government can get by with two month spending bills makes them nervous? Do you know enough about economics to actually discuss this, or is this like your other threads I have seen where all you are doing is blowing smoke?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Actually I think that statement has merit. Obama is a spend and tax liberal. Liberal 2.0. Spend us so far into debt, the only answer is obvious. Tax. And whom shall we tax? Well certainly not those who reaped the vast benefit from the Bush tax cuts. No, for them we will cut even more. Payroll cuts for them. Well, now we are spending more and taking in even less??? Fiscal insanity? Nope, Liberal 2.0. Of course all those who are getting tax cuts will agree. TAX THEM!!, TAX THE RICH!!!.

The dream lives on, they want rates above 50% again. They need to avenge that bastard Reagan. Obama is smart, very smart. He knew he couldn't come in tax guns blazing. Spend first, spend fast, spend a lot and keep spending. When you've spent enough you simply cry about revenues. And when you've cut enough for the sheeple, they will follow. This is exactly why I was screaming at the deal done last December. Obama snookered the GOP bigtime.

That's a fascinating view of reality. How do you rationalize the fact that Obama cut spending in 2010 and revenue is at its lowest levels in generations?

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Cut spending... haha that's a good one.

Spending hasnt been cut since we ended WW2.

Hmm. So, you're saying the information from the link is incorrect? Ok. Well, what was spending in 2009 and 2010? How is the link wrong?

 

[Billy000]

He's been in charge for three years, for two years he had a majority in both houses

He did nothing for the economy and nothing for UE.

Why? I could conjecture to amuse myself, but I'd like to hear your reasons for his failures.

And please none of this party of no bs, that's been debunked by obama on 60 minutes.

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

Do you start the morning off by smoking up a fatty, Billy? I ask that not to be insulting but because I'm truely baffled by your "take" on things.

First of all, Barack Obama was hardly "diplomatic" with his approach to Republicans. When he told them in their meeting early in 2009 "Elections have consequences...I won..." that wasn't being diplomatic..that was telling your opponents (to use another of his "diplomatic" statements from back then) to go sit in the back of the bus. Obama's lack of bi-partisanship when he held his super-majorities set the tone for his current relationship with the people across the aisle. He took great delight in ignoring their concerns when he didn't need them and now they loath him for it.

As for Obama's "genuine effort" to improve the economy? Let's examine that effort...shall we? Exactly what did he spend most of his time on during his first year in office? It wasn't the economy, Billy...oh no...he spent most of his time and most of his political capital on ObamaCare. The economy got put on a back burner while he pursued the piece of legislation that he thought would define his Presidency. If you were one of the millions of unemployed in the private sector you were expected to be patient and wait because Barack had a more important issue to deal with than getting the economy back on track. Of course if you were in one of his core constituancies like public sector workers or a green energy company he used the Obama Stimulus to throw you a life preserver to keep you afloat...but if you were in the private sector? You were expected to keep on treading water until he got around to creating jobs. And if you went under while that happened? Oh well...sorry about that!

Let's also examine Obama's behavior towards the business community while he was pushing for ObamaCare and the Obama Stimulus. Do you remember him roundly chastising the banks for making the sub prime loans that were responsible for the housing bubble and collapse? (Ignoring of course that it was government that prompted that sub prime lending by threatening banks with legal action if they DIDNT loan to unqualified applicants) Telling us all that it was the banks irresponsible actions that were why we were in the situation we were in? So what do you think was the response by bankers to the onslaught of criticism from the President? Well, no surprise there...they tightened up lending. Then Obama started whining about how the reason the housing market wasn't recovering like he'd hoped was because the banks were being uncooperative and not making loans. Gee, Mr. President...make up your mind. Either the bankers are bad guys because they made loans they probably shouldn't have (under pressure from people like Obama) or they are the bad guys because they stopped making those loans after you ripped them a new one from your bully pulpit. You can't have it both ways.

How about we take a good look at how this Administration reacted to a oil drilling disaster in the Gulf? For decades now, environmentalists have pushed to have drilling done further and further from our coasts (citing the dangers of spills even though the safty record of shallow water drillers was almost perfect) prompting deep water drilling in thousands of feet of water. So BP cuts corners on Deepwater Horizon, the rig fails and starts pumping millions of barrels of crude oil into the Gulf and guess what? It can't be fixed because it took place at such a depth. See how an illogical policy ends up biting you in the ass? So now you've got this huge leak and how does the Obama Administration respond? They shut down drilling permits to ALL drilling in the Gulf. Not just the deep water rigs like Deepwater Horizon...oh, no...they take advantage of the situation to stop ALL new drilling in the Gulf including the shallow water drilling that has the almost perfect safety record. They shut it down and they put tens of thousands of people in an already ravaged Gulf Coast out of work. Then despite repeated calls from both Republican AND Democratic politicians from the Gulf Coast they kept that moratorium in place month after month after month. They kept it in place so long that most of the drilling companies gave up and moved their drilling rigs to other places around the globe. Once those rigs are gone? They aren't coming back for years if ever. Now that's a real blow to the economy of the Gulf Coast and to jobs in the Gulf Coast but the environmentalists that Obama put in charge of drilling don't care. They don't like drilling and they don't like fossil fuels. Bye bye jobs...

Or let's examine what Obama's Justice Department has been up to since he took office. Boeing builds a huge new airplane plant in South Carolina but Eric Holder and the Justice Department sues them to prevent it's opening because they want to protect union jobs in Washington state. The message being sent to American business is that you're not ALLOWED to build factories in right to work States instead of States that are heavily unionized and if you try to do so we will tie you up in court and cost you millions of dollars in legal fees.

Then let's look at the legislation that Obama lobbied hard for but couldn't get once he lost his super majorities. Do you remember him telling us that Cap & Trade and Card Check were next up on his "agenda"? Two measures that would have made the cost of doing business here in the US much more expensive. Now what do you think the effect on new job creation was with THOSE two things hanging over the business community's head like Damocle's sword? Now combine THAT with the uncertainty of what ObamaCare was going to add to the bottom line. President Obama's "actions" are what kept businesses from investing the billions of dollars they were sitting on.

You say Obama was a "little misguided"? That's quite the understatement... He's been as oblivious to what HIS actions resulted in, as you seem to be.

Here is proof of his bi-partisan efforts:

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda

He did start working on the economy - he passed the Recovery Act in early 2009.

Yes, he did fail to end cap and trade as he promised.

The rest of the issues you are talking about are purely political. As you may know, there are two sides to everything. For instance, you failed to discuss Obama's intentions for not drilling in the Gulf and his criticism of the banks. What were they exactly? Admittedly, I do not know how much responsiblity goes to the gov vs the banks for the crisis, but I am hesitant to believe it was all the government's fault. Yes, Clintion passed legislation to make it easier for people to get loans, but obviously there was a reason why Obama was quick to blast the the banks. To say it was political, just isn't good enough.

Thre is no denying that ObamaCare has been both costly and beneficial.

 

[Cuyo]

He's been in charge for three years, for two years he had a majority in both houses

He did nothing for the economy and nothing for UE.

Why? I could conjecture to amuse myself, but I'd like to hear your reasons for his failures.

And please none of this party of no bs, that's been debunked by obama on 60 minutes.

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

Yes, there's no denying that even after multiple failures, the system is still able to self correct with no help form obama at all.

I see what you did there.

No matter what the outcome, Dems suck. We get it. Bad under Dems is Dems fault. Bad under Republicans is previous Dems' faults. Good under Dems is in spite of Dems. Good under Republicans is proof that conservatism is the answer.

You're smart enough TT, but you've got such a head full of garbage it's a crying shame. You sound so much like right wing Foxtrotter hacks like Hannity it's almost eerie.

 

[Oldstyle]

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

Do you start the morning off by smoking up a fatty, Billy? I ask that not to be insulting but because I'm truely baffled by your "take" on things.

First of all, Barack Obama was hardly "diplomatic" with his approach to Republicans. When he told them in their meeting early in 2009 "Elections have consequences...I won..." that wasn't being diplomatic..that was telling your opponents (to use another of his "diplomatic" statements from back then) to go sit in the back of the bus. Obama's lack of bi-partisanship when he held his super-majorities set the tone for his current relationship with the people across the aisle. He took great delight in ignoring their concerns when he didn't need them and now they loath him for it.

As for Obama's "genuine effort" to improve the economy? Let's examine that effort...shall we? Exactly what did he spend most of his time on during his first year in office? It wasn't the economy, Billy...oh no...he spent most of his time and most of his political capital on ObamaCare. The economy got put on a back burner while he pursued the piece of legislation that he thought would define his Presidency. If you were one of the millions of unemployed in the private sector you were expected to be patient and wait because Barack had a more important issue to deal with than getting the economy back on track. Of course if you were in one of his core constituancies like public sector workers or a green energy company he used the Obama Stimulus to throw you a life preserver to keep you afloat...but if you were in the private sector? You were expected to keep on treading water until he got around to creating jobs. And if you went under while that happened? Oh well...sorry about that!

Let's also examine Obama's behavior towards the business community while he was pushing for ObamaCare and the Obama Stimulus. Do you remember him roundly chastising the banks for making the sub prime loans that were responsible for the housing bubble and collapse? (Ignoring of course that it was government that prompted that sub prime lending by threatening banks with legal action if they DIDNT loan to unqualified applicants) Telling us all that it was the banks irresponsible actions that were why we were in the situation we were in? So what do you think was the response by bankers to the onslaught of criticism from the President? Well, no surprise there...they tightened up lending. Then Obama started whining about how the reason the housing market wasn't recovering like he'd hoped was because the banks were being uncooperative and not making loans. Gee, Mr. President...make up your mind. Either the bankers are bad guys because they made loans they probably shouldn't have (under pressure from people like Obama) or they are the bad guys because they stopped making those loans after you ripped them a new one from your bully pulpit. You can't have it both ways.

How about we take a good look at how this Administration reacted to a oil drilling disaster in the Gulf? For decades now, environmentalists have pushed to have drilling done further and further from our coasts (citing the dangers of spills even though the safty record of shallow water drillers was almost perfect) prompting deep water drilling in thousands of feet of water. So BP cuts corners on Deepwater Horizon, the rig fails and starts pumping millions of barrels of crude oil into the Gulf and guess what? It can't be fixed because it took place at such a depth. See how an illogical policy ends up biting you in the ass? So now you've got this huge leak and how does the Obama Administration respond? They shut down drilling permits to ALL drilling in the Gulf. Not just the deep water rigs like Deepwater Horizon...oh, no...they take advantage of the situation to stop ALL new drilling in the Gulf including the shallow water drilling that has the almost perfect safety record. They shut it down and they put tens of thousands of people in an already ravaged Gulf Coast out of work. Then despite repeated calls from both Republican AND Democratic politicians from the Gulf Coast they kept that moratorium in place month after month after month. They kept it in place so long that most of the drilling companies gave up and moved their drilling rigs to other places around the globe. Once those rigs are gone? They aren't coming back for years if ever. Now that's a real blow to the economy of the Gulf Coast and to jobs in the Gulf Coast but the environmentalists that Obama put in charge of drilling don't care. They don't like drilling and they don't like fossil fuels. Bye bye jobs...

Or let's examine what Obama's Justice Department has been up to since he took office. Boeing builds a huge new airplane plant in South Carolina but Eric Holder and the Justice Department sues them to prevent it's opening because they want to protect union jobs in Washington state. The message being sent to American business is that you're not ALLOWED to build factories in right to work States instead of States that are heavily unionized and if you try to do so we will tie you up in court and cost you millions of dollars in legal fees.

Then let's look at the legislation that Obama lobbied hard for but couldn't get once he lost his super majorities. Do you remember him telling us that Cap & Trade and Card Check were next up on his "agenda"? Two measures that would have made the cost of doing business here in the US much more expensive. Now what do you think the effect on new job creation was with THOSE two things hanging over the business community's head like Damocle's sword? Now combine THAT with the uncertainty of what ObamaCare was going to add to the bottom line. President Obama's "actions" are what kept businesses from investing the billions of dollars they were sitting on.

You say Obama was a "little misguided"? That's quite the understatement... He's been as oblivious to what HIS actions resulted in, as you seem to be.

Here is proof of his bi-partisan efforts:

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda

He did start working on the economy - he passed the Recovery Act in early 2009.

Yes, he did fail to end cap and trade as he promised.

The rest of the issues you are talking about are purely political. As you may know, there are two sides to everything. For instance, you failed to discuss Obama's intentions for not drilling in the Gulf and his criticism of the banks. What were they exactly? Admittedly, I do not know how much responsiblity goes to the gov vs the banks for the crisis, but I am hesitant to believe it was all the government's fault. Yes, Clintion passed legislation to make it easier for people to get loans, but obviously there was a reason why Obama was quick to blast the the banks. To say it was political, just isn't good enough.

Thre is no denying that ObamaCare has been both costly and beneficial.

With all due respect, Billy? You quote a Politifact article from last January in which they seem to be amazed by a brief window of bi-partisanship during the lame duck session of Congress following the 2010 mid-terms and the shooting of Gabby Gifford. In the same article they caution that long time Washington observers were predicting a return to partisan fighting. So what has Obama DONE since last January? He's sat by while Harry Reid let Republican legislation from the House pile up on his desk. He's threatened repeated vetos of any Republican legislation that DOES make it to the Oval Office to be signed and he's blamed the Republicans for holding up his "Jobs Bill" a cynical piece of legislation that he knew he couldn't even get support from moderate Democrats on, let alone Republicans...a piece of legislation who's only purpose was to paint Republicans as "obstructing" his efforts to create jobs. That's your "bi-partisan" President in action.

As for Obama's "intentions" for the Gulf and the banks? You tell me, Billy. People that live on the Gulf basically think the guy sold them down the river to make his environmental base happy. Bankers think he's a two faced politician because he first blamed them for making loans they shouldn't have before the crash...and then blamed them for not making the same loans when Obama wanted the housing market to rebound faster.

Obama didn't fail to end Cap & Trade. He couldn't get the votes to pass it because the Blue Dog Democrats balked when they saw how many jobs it was going to cost the country.

As for ObamaCare? You don't have a clue how costly it's going to be, my progressive friend! That's because they backloaded the cost to make the numbers work. We'll be paying into a system that won't be paying out anything for years. Once that bad boy comes on line and another 30 million people start crowding into ER's for treatment? Just watch what happens to the cost of ObamaCare. It's going to skyrocket.

 

[FA_Q2]

Let's say that I can make a widget for 50 dollars out the door. Now this widget is a nice item that many people want and the demand for a 50 dollar widget would be 1,000 units per year. Not a bad business decision to open up a local factory and create many jobs for producing those widgets but wait, I have several regulations that I need to follow. Minimum wages, the type of paint I use, union concessions, EPA regulations ect. All that increases the cost of my widget to 120 dollars.

Every single product that exists. What is so hard to understand? This is how it works.

Because you've trailed off there. You've presented a hypothetical in which production costs increase by 140% due to "etc." It would be helpful to take an actual product and walk through all the relevant regulations, offering realistic estimates of the costs and benefits of each. There isn't much point to an in-depth example that lacks depth.

Nevermind, it's much more enlightening to hear for the thousandth time generalities about how regulations (etc.) are awful, useless, and costing a kazillion dollars.

Or we could do what you are doing and paste a random fact without any understanding of what it means, quote statistics that do not have any correlation whatsoever and scream loudly that you are intellectually superior. Nice try.

Do you have any clue why a house in CA costs so much more to build than one in Kentucky? You could start with the fact there are places in CA that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy a building permit. A permit that has NOTHING to do with anything other than a payoff to state government. In MANY cases, the permits that must be purchased will cost more than THE HOUSE ITSELF! That is before we get into the costs of regulations in the building itself. You might also want to compare the costs of materials in the various states. Yup, local regulations have impacts there too. What do you think happens on the macro level when the feds get involved? Oh ya, federal regulations have zero effect on demand, cost or anything else....

 

[FA_Q2]

The stimulus should have been larger, but could he have gotten more money?

How large should it have been? It grew relentlessly as it was discussed, until they passed about the largest stimulus that had been talked about.
And it still failed.

There are absolutely zero studies showing the stimulus failed. At best you could find a study that shows a small positive, but you cannot find one that says it failed, because it did not fail.

Repeating that for the Perry fans: the stimulus did NOT fail.

The stimulus should have been closer to $2T and should have been all spending projects with no tax cuts. Had it been that size, we would not be having this conversation.

Of course, if 1T did not work then 2T would have. And had 2T failed to produce the desired results, the problem is that it was not 4T.


How could we have missed THAT???

 

[Full-Auto]

How large should it have been? It grew relentlessly as it was discussed, until they passed about the largest stimulus that had been talked about.
And it still failed.

There are absolutely zero studies showing the stimulus failed. At best you could find a study that shows a small positive, but you cannot find one that says it failed, because it did not fail.

Repeating that for the Perry fans: the stimulus did NOT fail.

The stimulus should have been closer to $2T and should have been all spending projects with no tax cuts. Had it been that size, we would not be having this conversation.

Of course, if 1T did not work then 2T would have. And had 2T failed to produce the desired results, the problem is that it was not 4T.


How could we have missed THAT???

Let me also point out that the solution was a mini stimulus, so it would only fail at half the rate.

 

[Listening]

Obama's hyper-diplomatic approach with Republicans has been costly. I also blame the inaction on the democrat controlled congress in the first two years. That being said, I think Obama has made a genuine effort to improve the economy. He was just a little misguided. How this has affected the UE is unclear, but there is no denying that there has been steady (although slight) economic growth in the past 9 months.

Yes, there's no denying that even after multiple failures, the system is still able to self correct with no help form obama at all.

No, actually. You can attribute a lot of this growth to the stimulus package.

That is so funny to read, my side hurts.

Are you that stupid ?