what so bad about socialism

[tjnewberry8]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

 

[Vigilante]

Sooner or later they all run out of OTHERS money, as we saw with Greece!

 

[tjnewberry8]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

 

[Hossfly]

Sooner or later they all run out of OTHERS money, as we saw with Greece!

Every liberal just loves free stuff.

 

[norwegen]

No people were happier than the Americans were from about 1630 to about 1900 (maybe later).

 

[Hossfly]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

I have amazing benefits. Worked my tail to the bone for 50 years but I have a comfortable life and I earned every penny. I don't get anything from the taxpayers.

 

[tjnewberry8]

I really thought I would have more support than this. Liberal's don't like free stuff sir, but we don't like people so suffer, and we do want everyone living outside of poverty, and enjoying there lives. I encourage anyone with very different views to please google happiest countries in the world, and see the results. Then spend some time looking that there politics, benefits, and rights... You might be surprised what you find.

 

[Hossfly]

I really thought I would have more support than this. Liberal's don't like free stuff sir, but we don't like people so suffer, and we do want everyone living outside of poverty, and enjoying there lives. I encourage anyone with very different views to please google happiest countries in the world, and see the results. Then spend some time looking that there politics, benefits, and rights... You might be surprised what you find.

View attachment 45824

I've been to every one of those countries in the past 58 years and none of them have any thing on Uncle Sams patch of ground. Any of their residents would rather be here than there.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Good question. What works is everyone on the same page of the playbook. Unity breeds opportunity and prosperity. What we lack is unity and common goals. America is divided to the extent that it's almost impossible to legislate and enact beneficial laws and regulations, and to propel us into the future. We're going backwards as a nation, and as a people. Our problems are too numerous to mention, but they're keeping us from realizing our potential to be the greatest nation in recorded history. We're slowly wiping out centuries of progress, and falling rapidly from our peak of great achievements and social advancement.

Our government has become one of internal power struggles and one-upmanship. We no longer have a representative government, rather one of self-service and egos. Citizens have become nothing more than a source of votes and tax revenue. Our nation is now ruled and controlled by the wealthy, the powerful, and the influential. Our government is bought and paid for, as is legislation and policy. The government has become an entity unto itself, answerable to no one except itself.

We're destroying our nation while other nations are building theirs.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"what so bad about socialism"

Conservatives have no idea what it really is.

 

[tjnewberry8]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

I have amazing benefits. Worked my tail to the bone for 50 years but I have a comfortable life and I earned every penny. I don't get anything from the taxpayers.

I'm sure you did sir, and you sound like someone we should all admire. Even though you had success, we just don't live in a world where everyone succeeds no mater how hard they try. I guess I empathize with the people that work and work, and never make it. I myself am very successful, so I'm not looking to take advantage. We'll always need waiters, cashiers, etc..., I think we just can't ignore them.

 

[Hossfly]

"what so bad about socialism"

Conservatives have no idea what it really is.

Socialism | Definition of socialism by Merriam-Webster
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism - Similarto Socialism | Definition of socialism by Merriam-Webster

a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies.


Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism - Similarto Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land , etc., ...


In other words we are all the little guy. America wasn't founded on those principles. In fact, we fought a war to get the hell away from Socialism.

 

[Hossfly]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

I have amazing benefits. Worked my tail to the bone for 50 years but I have a comfortable life and I earned every penny. I don't get anything from the taxpayers.

I'm sure you did sir, and you sound like someone we should all admire. Even though you had success, we just don't live in a world where everyone succeeds no mater how hard they try. I guess I empathize with the people that work and work, and never make it. I myself am very successful, so I'm not looking to take advantage. We'll always need waiters, cashiers, etc..., I think we just can't ignore them.

Socialism in theory is almost heaven but as long as there are certain humans involved a whole herd of them are fighting to be the big dog. Let Socialism stay in Europe.

 

[Andylusion]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Well I would disagree with the premise on two fronts. First, the 'happiness' rating system is ridiculous, and biased.

It reminds me of the World Health Organizations health care rankings, in which only 2 of the 16 or so categories of measurement, had anything at all to do with the quality of the care. Everything else in the ranking system, was a measurement of how socialized the care was. Which led to Cuba, a country where at the time, no Cuban had access to even Aspirin, even being on the list.... let alone higher on the list than America.

The Happiness rating, is similar in that it has many variables that have nothing to do with happiness.

That said, even if we assume the "happiness rating" is legitimate, what you claim to be "geared toward socialism", is completely and utterly false.

Any country that actually engages in Socialism, or truly moves towards socialism... results in destruction to the country. Those that you are referring to, are no where near socialism, and in many ways are more Capitalist than our own country.

For example:
World Happiness Report - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Top of your happiness list is.... Switzerland. Is Switzerland more Capitalist, or Socialist than the US?

Let's take a look......

Switzerland has a trade tariff rate of 0% on imported goods. The US has a 1.5% tariff on imported goods.
Capitalist.

Tax revenue as a percent of GDP in Switzerland is right on par with America, and in some cases is lower.
Capitalist.

Top marginal tax rate in Switzerland is only 11.5%, compared to the US 39.6%.
Capitalist.

Debt can not be simply forgiven. The debtor will lose all property to the debt collectors, with only a limited ability to have the debt restructured.
Capitalist

Private property rights are strictly enforced.
Capitalist

Corporate Tax rate is only 9% compared to the US 35%.
Capitalist.

Oh and how about that Switzerland minimum wage? Zero. No minimum wage.
Capitalist.

Do you need me to list more? Because I can.

Point being, Switzerland is ranked higher on the economic freedom index than even the US.
Country Rankings World Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom
They are number 5. We're number 12.

They are more capitalist than we are.

I could go over the lax banking rules, the investment friendly regulations, the lower capital gains taxes, the more freedom to import and export.... and on... and on... and on.

So if we follow your advice, and do what "we already know works" based on your Happiness index...... then we should....

Cut the top marginal tax rate on the wealth. Cut capital gains, and corporate tax rates. Eliminate the minimum wage. Reduce regulations on banks. Cut spending. Oh, did I mention Switzerland has a debt to GDP ratio of 50%? Roughly half of ours? Eliminate tariffs on imports. Eliminate breaches to private property rights in the law. Eliminate debt forgiveness in bankruptcy laws.

In short, following what you said, we should drastically cut socialism out of our laws, and engage in more Capitalism.

I'd agree with you on that.

 

[Wake]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Why do you like socialism?

 

[Wake]

Socialism only works in theory.

When applied in the real world, we realize we're dealing with human beings.

They have free will.

 

[Andylusion]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

First, I've been the UK. We'd have to drastically cut our standard of living down, to meet the UK standard. Some of the poorest people in our country, have a standard of living that UK citizen could only dream about.

Further, those 'amazing benefits' are not so amazing. The waiting lists for getting treatment in the UK, makes the way the VA treated our vets here in the US, look like they were getting royalty service.

When our vets were waiting months, their average citizens were waiting years. When we were appalled by how long our vets were waiting to get help, people in the UK were saying "what? That's it?".

 

[tjnewberry8]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

First, I've been the UK. We'd have to drastically cut our standard of living down, to meet the UK standard. Some of the poorest people in our country, have a standard of living that UK citizen could only dream about.

Further, those 'amazing benefits' are not so amazing. The waiting lists for getting treatment in the UK, makes the way the VA treated our vets here in the US, look like they were getting royalty service.

When our vets were waiting months, their average citizens were waiting years. When we were appalled by how long our vets were waiting to get help, people in the UK were saying "what? That's it?".

Well maybe you do make good arguments. I've never lived in the UK, sounds like you have, and must be a citizen to comment with so much emotion. I did however live in Australia for 5 years, and became a Citizen. It seems your primary focus was around Healthcare. So I'll comment about the Australia Healthcare system. Every Australian has free (paid by taxes) healthcare, that I and my family used several times. They also have a private system as well. So if you have the money, by all means go to a private hospital, with your private insurance (just like in America) If you don't however, people are not turned away, or stuck with absurd bills that they'll never be able to pay off.

I had my second child in a public Hospital in Australia. By weekly doc appointments, ultrasounds, 5 days in a private room after the baby was born. Everything that I would receive in America I got in Australia and It cost us $0... What a relief it was, and wish many other can experience not having to be scared of what the bill is going to be. It's a great feeling, let me tell you. On a separate occasion I needed an MRI, which I got in a few days after my doctor requested it. They sent me to the private hospital, and the public system paid the bill. Great service, with out the worries.

So when our Vets wait months (which is awful, and needs work) it doesn't mean other free services are bad. They can be quit good when managed properly.

 

[tjnewberry8]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

I have amazing benefits. Worked my tail to the bone for 50 years but I have a comfortable life and I earned every penny. I don't get anything from the taxpayers.

I'm sure you did sir, and you sound like someone we should all admire. Even though you had success, we just don't live in a world where everyone succeeds no mater how hard they try. I guess I empathize with the people that work and work, and never make it. I myself am very successful, so I'm not looking to take advantage. We'll always need waiters, cashiers, etc..., I think we just can't ignore them.

Socialism in theory is almost heaven but as long as there are certain humans involved a whole herd of them are fighting to be the big dog. Let Socialism stay in Europe.

That's true sir, there will always be humans fighting to the top. We want that... That's what make capitalism such a successful system. I'm pro Capitalism in private industry, but we need government to regulate the big dogs from abusing the rest of the heard. We already have socialism in this country now. Welfare, unemployment, Medicaid, Police protection, Fire, etc... It's my opinion we need more not less. That's all. I'm guessing you feel we need less.

 

[Votto]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Sure, it works with an Amish commune but not so much in Greece in the EU