What Kind of State in Israel?

[P F Tinmore]

LOL try again tinnie-----My own husband was born in a middle east shariah
shit hole-----THAT situation has provided me with HUNDREDS of relatives
who would laugh in your idiot face at that "equal" idea----even in Egypt ---
non muslims were NEVER "equal" to muslims----neither christians nor jews.
Never was and never will be. Such a concept is an AFFRONT TO ISLAM.

Even in the best of times and the most moderate of places----apparent
equality is at the very best ---not quite and very ephemeral in any country
with a muslim majority----and often even those with a significant muslim
minority-----there are PROBLEMS for more information on that idea---
talk to christians, jews, zoroastrians and even hindus from MUMBAI.

Mumbai is amazingly diverse----and ----COHESIVE in the face of that
diversity--------except for-----well----you know who.

LOL try again tinnie-----My own husband was born in a middle east shariah
shit hole-----

Not in Palestine though.

Irrelevant.

What are we calling "PALESTINE" tinnie? He was rescued from the shariah
shit hole as an infant----and brought to palestine. His papers were stamped
PALESTINIAN because he was a jew---unlike the arabs in the neighborhood
----whom the brits did not call "PALESTINIAN"

I have encountered people from shariah shit holes whose parents arrived very early in
the 20th century-----and others who remember their arrival in the 1920s
Where is this place you know of where muslims and jews and christians
are "equal" ??? Of course the CLAIM of equality does show up
on some of the constitutions even of shariah shit holes

----whom the brits did not call "PALESTINIAN"

Who cares what imperialist foreigners say? Palestine did not belong to those assholes.

 

[irosie91]

Not in Palestine though.

Irrelevant.

What are we calling "PALESTINE" tinnie? He was rescued from the shariah
shit hole as an infant----and brought to palestine. His papers were stamped
PALESTINIAN because he was a jew---unlike the arabs in the neighborhood
----whom the brits did not call "PALESTINIAN"

I have encountered people from shariah shit holes whose parents arrived very early in
the 20th century-----and others who remember their arrival in the 1920s
Where is this place you know of where muslims and jews and christians
are "equal" ??? Of course the CLAIM of equality does show up
on some of the constitutions even of shariah shit holes

----whom the brits did not call "PALESTINIAN"

Who cares what imperialist foreigners say? Palestine did not belong to those assholes.

try again tinnie----the arabs of palestine did not call themselves "palestinians"
when the OTTOMANS ran the place either-------but the jews did. You don't
care what the arabs ----"think" ok well they have a right to change
their minds now they want to call themselves Palestinians-----after some 500
years when they start calling themselves CANADIANS ----that will own
Canada

 

[P F Tinmore]

What are we calling "PALESTINE" tinnie? He was rescued from the shariah
shit hole as an infant----and brought to palestine. His papers were stamped
PALESTINIAN because he was a jew---unlike the arabs in the neighborhood
----whom the brits did not call "PALESTINIAN"

I have encountered people from shariah shit holes whose parents arrived very early in
the 20th century-----and others who remember their arrival in the 1920s
Where is this place you know of where muslims and jews and christians
are "equal" ??? Of course the CLAIM of equality does show up
on some of the constitutions even of shariah shit holes

----whom the brits did not call "PALESTINIAN"

Who cares what imperialist foreigners say? Palestine did not belong to those assholes.

try again tinnie----the arabs of palestine did not call themselves "palestinians"
when the OTTOMANS ran the place either-------but the jews did. You don't
care what the arabs ----"think" ok well they have a right to change
their minds now they want to call themselves Palestinians-----after some 500
years when they start calling themselves CANADIANS ----that will own
Canada

Why are you still playing Israel's name game?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel?

 

[irosie91]

Who cares what imperialist foreigners say? Palestine did not belong to those assholes.

try again tinnie----the arabs of palestine did not call themselves "palestinians"
when the OTTOMANS ran the place either-------but the jews did. You don't
care what the arabs ----"think" ok well they have a right to change
their minds now they want to call themselves Palestinians-----after some 500
years when they start calling themselves CANADIANS ----that will own
Canada

Why are you still playing Israel's name game?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel?

What "barrel" tinnie?-----you were about to tell
me about a MUSLIM MAJORITY 'palestine' or any country,,
run on HOME-RULE in which jews, muslims and
and christians all have EQUAL RIGHTS

 

[P F Tinmore]

try again tinnie----the arabs of palestine did not call themselves "palestinians"
when the OTTOMANS ran the place either-------but the jews did. You don't
care what the arabs ----"think" ok well they have a right to change
their minds now they want to call themselves Palestinians-----after some 500
years when they start calling themselves CANADIANS ----that will own
Canada

Why are you still playing Israel's name game?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel?

What "barrel" tinnie?-----you were about to tell
me about a MUSLIM MAJORITY 'palestine' or any country,,
run on HOME-RULE in which jews, muslims and
and christians all have EQUAL RIGHTS

Already did.

You need to keep up.

 

[irosie91]

Why are you still playing Israel's name game?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel?

What "barrel" tinnie?-----you were about to tell
me about a MUSLIM MAJORITY 'palestine' or any country,,
run on HOME-RULE in which jews, muslims and
and christians all have EQUAL RIGHTS

Already did.

You need to keep up.

Tinnie----you claimed "PALESTINE" what are you calling "PALESTINE"
some mythical city from 1001 arabian nights ? The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law. and the filth
of the KORAN is the UNASSAILABLE TRUTH ---by law (PS abbas is no better--
he lies a lot----but you prefer Hamas)

 

[P F Tinmore]

What "barrel" tinnie?-----you were about to tell
me about a MUSLIM MAJORITY 'palestine' or any country,,
run on HOME-RULE in which jews, muslims and
and christians all have EQUAL RIGHTS

Already did.

You need to keep up.

Tinnie----you claimed "PALESTINE" what are you calling "PALESTINE"
some mythical city from 1001 arabian nights ? The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law. and the filth
of the KORAN is the UNASSAILABLE TRUTH ---by law (PS abbas is no better--
he lies a lot----but you prefer Hamas)

The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law.

Got a link?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There has never been a "State" of Palestine. Palestine is an ancient Roman name for their Administrative Region, that has carried forth unto today.

The Jewish People (or The People of Israel, whichever you prefer) are often historically placed in the Region of Palestine (a later Roman designation) dating back to the time of Joshua, some 3 millenium ago (maybe further, being Catholic, my Hebrew history is rather weak). But as I understand it, King David (of David and Goliath fame, a story taught to all Christian children) unified the Hebrew tribes and reigned over the first Kingdom of Israel (sometimes referred to in later times as Judea). It covered almost all of today's Palestine [less an area known as Philistia (in Hebrew "Peleshet") (known today as Gaza)]. Philistia was ruled by the people known as Philistines. (Oddly enough, I'm told that in Hebrew "Peleshet" means the "land of immigrants or invaders." These are the precursors to the Roman word Palestine. Now who would have guested.) Since that time, the entire landscape of today's Palestine, has been rule by the Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire. But never by a people known as Palestinians (except for Gaza, as I said, who would have ever guessed; fact is stranger than fiction).​

My point to this little thumbnail is, if you go back in history far enough, you might get some startling results. And I also wanted to demonstrate how absurd it is to arbitrarily pick a starting point for the feud (Jew 'vs' Muslim or Israeli 'vs' Palestinian, or however you want to frame it) based on a snapshot in time. While we can say that the "original invaders" were historically Palestinian from Gaza, 3 Millenium ago, you can see how far removed that finding is from the reality of today. So it is with your arbitrary selection of time in the Jewish Immigration of (today's) Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

I do not question the accuracy of your post as much as I question the relevance. How many countries in the world do not have a checkered past of conquest and imposed rule? How does that negate the rights of the Palestinians to Palestine?

Post war treaties created a handful of countries in the region. None of those people had lived under self rule. Why are the Palestinians unique?

1922 is not an arbitrary time. That time period saw the creation of Palestine and its neighboring states. It is a common time in the history of the region.

(QUESTIONS)

• Who created "The State of Palestine" in 1922?
• Who was the "Head of State?"
• Where was the seat of government?
• Where is the Declaration of Independence?

(NOTATION)

• Council of the League of Nations created the "British" Mandate for Palestine in July '22.
• The Memorandum for Jordan (taking half of Palestine) amended the Mandate in September '22 with a one year transition period; ending September '23
• Reference Text: Mandate for Palestine text/League of Nations decision confirming the Principal Allied Powers' agreement on the territory of Palestine (12 August 1922)
  • 
    
    [*]PREAMBLE: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;​
  
  
  

  • PREAMBLE: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine;

  
  

  Article 7: The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

​

• The "British" Mandate for Palestine terminated on 14 May with the creation of the State of Israel on the 15th of May 1948.

(COMMENT)

They (The UN) did not create a "State of Palestine." The "Palestinians did not announce independence. In fact, they various agencies and organizations that perport to speak on behalf of the Palestinians, rejected the offer of statehood. If any recognized authority had declared Palestinian Independence, it wouldn't be necessary for Mahmoud Abbas to go through all the trouble he has, to get recognition, and he is only part way now.

• The Allied Powers through the UN (LoN) assigned the UK as the Mandatory over Palestine with all Administration.
• The (UK) Administration of Palestine had responsibility for "nationality laws."
• The Palestinian had no authority whatsoever that was not delegated by the UK as the Mandatory under the ultimate authority of the Allied Powers using the UN(LON) mechanism. (Special Note: When the Mandate speaks of the "Administration of Palestine," they are speaking of an entity of HM Government. Local administration 'v' central administration was preferred.)

Post war treaties created a handful of countries in the region. None of those people had lived under self rule. Why are the Palestinians unique?

(COMMENT)

The Mandate did not establish either the "State of Israel" or the "State of Palestine." The "State of Israel" was created by the Israelis in their Declaration of Independence (using the UN mechanisms, the same as Mahmoud Abbas is doing today); something the Palestinians did not bother to do. The Palestinian/Arab World rather - went to war instead (violence as the first solution, not diplomacy). The lack of skill in diplomacy, and their cultural propensity for violence were a definite drawback. It set the stage for the cascade series of failures that the the warlike inertia has carried into the present day. Still, the preferred method of settling disputes in the Palestinian culture is violence; the very thing that lost their chances for statehood, not just once; but twice.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

Already did.

You need to keep up.

Tinnie----you claimed "PALESTINE" what are you calling "PALESTINE"
some mythical city from 1001 arabian nights ? The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law. and the filth
of the KORAN is the UNASSAILABLE TRUTH ---by law (PS abbas is no better--
he lies a lot----but you prefer Hamas)

The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law.

Got a link?

I do not hand out links for COMMON KNOWLEGE issues you are just being an A-hole
Yes that filth is part of the HAMAS CHARTER-----but even if it were not
ALL majority islamic lands are ALWAYS IN DANGER of an ISLAMIC REVIVAL
---it is happening to one of the LEAST LIKELY------TURKEY nothing new
a kind of periodic illness historically

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinnie----you claimed "PALESTINE" what are you calling "PALESTINE"
some mythical city from 1001 arabian nights ? The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law. and the filth
of the KORAN is the UNASSAILABLE TRUTH ---by law (PS abbas is no better--
he lies a lot----but you prefer Hamas)

The Hamas charter ALREADY
calls for the estatblishment of a SHARIAH SHIT HOLE in which muslims are
LEGALLY SUPERIOR to non muslims ----even in courts of law.

Got a link?

I do not hand out links for COMMON KNOWLEGE issues you are just being an A-hole
Yes that filth is part of the HAMAS CHARTER-----but even if it were not
ALL majority islamic lands are ALWAYS IN DANGER of an ISLAMIC REVIVAL
---it is happening to one of the LEAST LIKELY------TURKEY nothing new
a kind of periodic illness historically

That is what I thought.

All you have is irrelevant blabber.

 

[irosie91]

Got a link?

I do not hand out links for COMMON KNOWLEGE issues you are just being an A-hole
Yes that filth is part of the HAMAS CHARTER-----but even if it were not
ALL majority islamic lands are ALWAYS IN DANGER of an ISLAMIC REVIVAL
---it is happening to one of the LEAST LIKELY------TURKEY nothing new
a kind of periodic illness historically

That is what I thought.

All you have is irrelevant blabber.

That is what I thought----all you have is OBSCENITY and love of GENOCIDAL FILTH ---
That which you support has been responsible for genocide of
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS----and counting---more rapes and more
obscene mutilation murders to ENTERTAIN THE PERVERTED
and render for the really perverted joiners A SENSE OF TRIUMPH
and POWER
a fact which obviously IS A TURN ON FOR THE GROSSLY PERVERTED

 

[irosie91]

BTW tinnie----did you find that HOME RULED COUNTRY WITH ISLAMIC
MAJORITY -----in which muslims and jews and christians all ENJOY EQUAL RIGHTS
and THE RELIGIONS ARE JUDGED EQUAL IN VALUE?

 

[P F Tinmore]

(COMMENT)

They (The UN) did not create a "State of Palestine." The "Palestinians did not announce independence. In fact, they various agencies and organizations that perport to speak on behalf of the Palestinians, rejected the offer of statehood. If any recognized authority had declared Palestinian Independence, it wouldn't be necessary for Mahmoud Abbas to go through all the trouble he has, to get recognition, and he is only part way now.

Of course none of that is true.

About 80 local Palestinian leaders got together in 1948 and declared independence on the territory within its defined borders. (Israel declared independence without defined territory.) A state does not need recognition to be a state.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

The Palestinians never rejected the offer of statehood.

 

[irosie91]

(COMMENT)

They (The UN) did not create a "State of Palestine." The "Palestinians did not announce independence. In fact, they various agencies and organizations that perport to speak on behalf of the Palestinians, rejected the offer of statehood. If any recognized authority had declared Palestinian Independence, it wouldn't be necessary for Mahmoud Abbas to go through all the trouble he has, to get recognition, and he is only part way now.

Of course none of that is true.

About 80 local Palestinian leaders got together in 1948 and declared independence on the territory within its defined borders. (Israel declared independence without defined territory.) A state does not need recognition to be a state.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

The Palestinians never rejected the offer of statehood.

LOL the muslim leaders got together and DECLARED a STATE WITH EQUALITY FOR ALL sure---just
like SUDAN is a STATE WTH EQUALITY FOR ALL -----and PAKISTAN IS A STATE ---with EQUALITY FOR ALL good idea That was about the time
my grandfather's brother died trying to make it into Palestine and it was
about the time that the muslims of ADEN did a throat slitting fest on the jews
waiting in that PORT CITY to make their escape (1947) It was about the time
the TUNISIAN jews were placed under attack too. ALL FREE AND EQUAL
Ask Roudy about the attack on the jews of Baghdad-----all FREE AND EQUAL

 

[P F Tinmore]

(COMMENT)

They (The UN) did not create a "State of Palestine." The "Palestinians did not announce independence. In fact, they various agencies and organizations that perport to speak on behalf of the Palestinians, rejected the offer of statehood. If any recognized authority had declared Palestinian Independence, it wouldn't be necessary for Mahmoud Abbas to go through all the trouble he has, to get recognition, and he is only part way now.

Of course none of that is true.

About 80 local Palestinian leaders got together in 1948 and declared independence on the territory within its defined borders. (Israel declared independence without defined territory.) A state does not need recognition to be a state.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

The Palestinians never rejected the offer of statehood.

PALESTINE PROGRESS REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS
MEDIATOR ON PALESTINE

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT


28 September 1948


I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I thought part of this, deserved a special answer. Separate from the other.

The Jewish People (or The People of Israel, whichever you prefer) are often historically placed in the Region of Palestine (a later Roman designation) dating back to the time of Joshua, some 3 millenium ago (maybe further, being Catholic, my Hebrew history is rather weak). But as I understand it, King David (of David and Goliath fame, a story taught to all Christian children) unified the Hebrew tribes and reigned over the first Kingdom of Israel (sometimes referred to in later times as Judea). It covered almost all of today's Palestine [less an area known as Philistia (in Hebrew "Peleshet") (known today as Gaza)]. Philistia was ruled by the people known as Philistines. (Oddly enough, I'm told that in Hebrew "Peleshet" means the "land of immigrants or invaders." These are the precursors to the Roman word Palestine. Now who would have guested.) Since that time, the entire landscape of today's Palestine, has been rule by the Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire. But never by a people known as Palestinians (except for Gaza, as I said, who would have ever guessed; fact is stranger than fiction).​

My point to this little thumbnail is, if you go back in history far enough, you might get some startling results. And I also wanted to demonstrate how absurd it is to arbitrarily pick a starting point for the feud (Jew 'vs' Muslim or Israeli 'vs' Palestinian, or however you want to frame it) based on a snapshot in time. While we can say that the "original invaders" were historically Palestinian from Gaza, 3 Millenium ago, you can see how far removed that finding is from the reality of today. So it is with your arbitrary selection of time in the Jewish Immigration of (today's) Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

I do not question the accuracy of your post as much as I question the relevance. How many countries in the world do not have a checkered past of conquest and imposed rule? How does that negate the rights of the Palestinians to Palestine?

(THOUGHTS)

Thought the Middle East, and even up through Afghanistan and into China, nomadic tribes and transient cultures are often secondary to the establishment of international governments, kindoms, republics, etc. The Kurds have experienced this, and you already know that Jordan is a Hashemite Kingdom, not of any tribe or culture organic to the region. The longevity of Palestinian residence, themselves once considered immigrants, is no different. The feud between the Palestinians and Israelis is very similar to the famous Appalachian Region Hatfield–McCoy feud (1863–1891), where two clans nearly rendered each other extinct before it ended; the principle difference between being that neither side in the Palestinians and Israelis feud is mature enough to adopt a solution yet.

No one ever negated the rights of the Palestinian. The Jewish population just acted faster and smart on their option; while the Palestinian chose another path, the path of violence. If the Palestinian solution had worked, it would have settled everything. But it was a gamble and they lost. Now they want their money back. Well, that chance is long gone. But like the addicted compulsive gamble that doesn't know when to cut their losses and leave the table, they fight on; creating hardships for everyone concerned.

(COMMENT)

For more than 3 Millenium (that is 3000 years, or 1,095,000 days), countless wars and conflicts, the Palestinian has never had a representative government (never - no record at all of any Palestinian taking the reigns of leadership and building a nation). Does that give you pause to think.

On the other hand, when we speak of the Israeli, we are basically taking about the Jews, who has been in the region just as long (maybe longer). These were Pharaoh's engineers that made the Great Pyramids possible, that captured Jerusalem a 1000 years before Christ. These are the people that gave us historic figures like Abraham, Moses, David, and Solomon. It is from this linage that we got Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, and Leonard Nimoy (my favorite).

I am often reminded that the Israeli's number over 800 as Nobel Laureates; the Palestinians but one, and that was Yassar Arafat in 1994.

We are talking about initiative here.

It is not characteristic of the Palestinian to exercise the same level of initiative as its counterpart Israeli. This is not a bad thing, but it helps explain why the histories and accomplishments are so radically different.

• QUESTION: "How does that negate the rights of the Palestinians to Palestine?"

ANS: It doesn't and it never did. This is a false conclusion. It assumes that someone, some thing, some agency, prevented the Palestinian from working toward and attaining the same objective as the Israel (by comparison). The Palestinian did not opt to advance the same objective.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I disagree.

(COMMENT)

They (The UN) did not create a "State of Palestine." The "Palestinians did not announce independence. In fact, they various agencies and organizations that perport to speak on behalf of the Palestinians, rejected the offer of statehood. If any recognized authority had declared Palestinian Independence, it wouldn't be necessary for Mahmoud Abbas to go through all the trouble he has, to get recognition, and he is only part way now.

Of course none of that is true.

About 80 local Palestinian leaders got together in 1948 and declared independence on the territory within its defined borders. (Israel declared independence without defined territory.) A state does not need recognition to be a state.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the defined borders were in the annex to the application. I've already showed this a dozen times.

And the Mediator on Palestine didn't give it any credibility. It asked for land already in the Application, and after a formal Declaration. This is a matter of too little, to late.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

The Palestinians never rejected the offer of statehood.

Again I disagree with your history.

The first proposal for the creation of Jewish and Arab states in the British Mandate of Palestine was made in the Peel Commission report of 1937, with the Mandate continuing to cover only a small area containing Jerusalem. The proposal was rejected by the Arab community of Palestine;[5][6] was accepted by most of the Jewish leadership; and the British government rejected partition as impracticable.[7]

Partition was again proposed by the 1947 UN Partition plan for the division of Palestine. It proposed a three-way division, again with Jerusalem held separately, under international control. The partition plan was accepted by the Jewish leadership. However, the plan was rejected by the leadership of Arab nations and the Palestinian leadership at the time, which opposed any partition of Palestine and any Jewish presence in the area. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War for control of the disputed land broke out soon afterwards.

The first indication that the PLO would be willing to accept a two-state solution, on at least an interim basis, was articulated by Said Hammami in the mid-1970s.[8][9]

Security Council resolutions dating back to June 1976 supporting the two-state solution based on the pre-1967 lines were vetoed by the United States,[10] which argued that the borders must be negotiated directly by the parties. The idea has had overwhelming support in the UN General Assembly since the mid 1970s.[11]

The Palestinian Declaration of Independence of 15 November 1988, which referenced the UN Partition Plan of 1947 and "UN resolutions since 1947" in general, was interpreted as an indirect recognition of the State of Israel, and support for a two-state solution. The Partition Plan was invoked to provide legitimacy to Palestinian statehood. Subsequent clarifications were taken to amount to the first explicit Palestinian recognition of Israel.[citation needed]

Many Palestinians and Israelis, as well as the Arab League,[12] have stated that they would accept a 2-state solution based on 1949 Armistice Agreements. In a 2002 poll conducted by PIPA, 72% of both Palestinians and Israelis supported at that time a peace settlement based on the 1967 borders so long as each group could be reassured that the other side would be cooperative in making the necessary concessions for such a settlement.[13]
However, a strong view is that neither side would be able to agree to a division that yielded the Temple Mount to the other side. As an attempt to break the stalemate, U.S. President Bill Clinton proposed dividing sovereignty of the site vertically - the ground and area below coming under Israeli sovereignty, while that above the ground (i.e. the Haram al-Sharif containing the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque) would be under Palestinian sovereignty. A similar idea was suggested for tunnels and elevated roads connecting communities. In the end neither side accepted the concept.[14]

Map of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, 2007. Agreeing on acceptable borders is a major difficulty with the two-state solution.

In the late 1990s, considerable diplomatic work went into negotiating a two-state solution between the parties, beginning with the failed Madrid Conference in 1991. The most significant of these negotiations was the Oslo Accords, which officially divided Palestinian land into three administrative divisions and created the framework for how much of Israel's political borders with the Palestinian territories function today. The Accords culminated in the Camp David 2000 Summit, and follow-up negotiations at Taba in January 2001, but no final agreement was ever reached. The violent outbreak of the Second Intifada in 2000 had demonstrated the Palestinian public's disillusionment with the Oslo Accords and convinced many Israelis that the negotiations were in vain.
SOURCE: Two-state solution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PALESTINE PROGRESS REPORT OF THE UNITED NATIONS
MEDIATOR ON PALESTINE

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948 FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT


28 September 1948


I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY

A/C.1/330 of 14 October 1948[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

I can just see the look on the UN Mediator's face when he got this. This does not constitute an application. But, whatever it might be interpreted as, I'm sure it got the recognition it deserved.

Ahmed Hilmi Pasha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prime Minister of All-Palestine Government

On 9 July 1948, following the declaration of Israeli statehood, the Arab League set up the Administrative Council for Palestine, chaired by Hilmi. On 22 September the National Assembly was set up in Gaza, with Haj Amin Husseini as President and Hilmi as Prime Minister.[citation needed] The assembly ceased to function following the Israeli army victories in Southern Palestine and the Arab Legion assuming control over Bethlehem and Hebron.[citation needed] In 1949 Hilmi became a district military governor in the West Bank and later he served as the Palestinian representative to the Arab League.[8]

The assumption was made by General Pasha that the Arab Armys would win, eliminating the State of Israel and then replacing it with an even larger state of Palestine. That never came to pass. This was just another attempted shortcut by the Palestinians that failed. Also notice, that is wasn't even sent by the Palestinians (really). It was sent by a former Ottoman General and Jordanian civil servent, from an organization set-up by the Arab League (not Palestinian). The Palestinian couldn't even do this on there own.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

Mr R
I agree with lots in your post-----but would add some associated issues---which
actually impact on the entire Middle east----and even the entire "islamic world"
I will engender some resentment for my comments----HOWEVER---I truly believe
-----that ALL PEOPLE are hindered by their own myths----but muslims "more so"
Jews had ----for all their existence a single "ADVENT" which is actually very limited.
---"ZION" after that----it is a matter of "come what may" Interestingly enough--
the time following the single ZION advent----is actually described in hebrew in words
which I believe translate something like ----"the days after...." Whenever
I read or hear them ---I am reminded of BOLSHEVIKS saying "COMES THE
REVOLUTION....." This expression shows up in the bible in messianic
prophecy and---in literature thereafter------the MYTHIC FUTURE TIME
AFTER THE "RETURN TO" or "ESTABLISHMENT" of zion is achieved.

Muslims not only have a MUCH MORE SWEEPING advent-----but it is to
be achieved by CONQUEST OF THE ENEMY----which is all people who
are not monotheists-------The accepted monotheists to be only those who
accept ISLAM as the SUPREME MONOTHEIST RELIGION. To put it
mildly-----muslims have a far too VAST EXPECTATION to begin with---
and then----are far TOO OPTIMISTIC about it. That optimism did
galvanize a remarkably SUCCESSFUL era of Conquest. That era
of conquest left muslims with the CALIPHATE COMPLEX ----it once
existed----it was wonderful ----and then ---somehow----it got STOLEN.

The MOGHUL EMPIRE got stolen BAGHDAD as the center
of the world and the ARABIAN NIGHTS got stolen MOORISH
Spain got stolen -----even Morocco got stolen----but the concept
carries on that IT STILL EXISTS-- WE JUST HAVE TO GET IT
BACK----ALL OF IT. If you understand the caliphate complex---you
understand not only why egyptian kids are talking about "getting
spain back" you also understand why a schmuck like achmadinejad
has the audacity to say IN THE UN!!! ISLAM IS THE RELIGION FOR
THE WHOLE WORLD and why peace just never happens in the
erstwhile MOGHUL EMPIRE (pakistan/india) and why Israel cannot
exist The problem in the Middle east is not LACK OF PALESTINIAN
state for the people who are now palestinians and their losses
-----the problem is the existence of Israel

In order to understand the CREEPING ANNEXATION FEAR-----you have
to understand the ISSUE OF PROJECTION Muslims are convinced
that the JOOOOOS harbor a CALIPHATE COMPLEX TOO ---just
as ROBUST AND CONCRETE AS THEIR OWN. Thus muslims---not just
"palestinians" cannot tolerate the existence of Israel-----and consider it
a GROWING CANCER IN THE HEART OF THE ISLAMIC WORLD

 

[P F Tinmore]

(COMMENT)

Yes, the defined borders were in the annex to the application. I've already showed this a dozen times.

Indeed, but it is illegal to declare borders inside someone else's borders. That is why Israel has none.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore

Ah, yes. You don't recognize the mandate.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the defined borders were in the annex to the application. I've already showed this a dozen times.

Indeed, but it is illegal to declare borders inside someone else's borders. That is why Israel has none.

(COMMENT)

This will be one of those things we will not agree upon.

Most Respectfully,
R