What Kind of State in Israel?

[docmauser1]

This is a matter of perspective. It is just as important that we be able to see ourselves through their eyes, as well as, we can see ourselves in the mirror. There is very little question that we see Islamic Fanaticism as barbaric, cruel and inhuman - with little or no potential for cultural advancement; or corrupting the human genome, and poisoning the species as a whole. But that is a one was single view. They may hold a similar view of us.

Same old, same old, multiculty, diversity, blahblah.

 

[SAYIT]

irosie91, et al,

There (actually) may be more truth to this than you may think. And this connection may explain why, in may facets, the various parties to conflict, cannot come to any common ground or resolution.

Genetically:

• MAO-A Gene
• VMAT-2 Gene

There is a very important COMMONALITY----between the TALIBAN and the ARABIST MOVEMENT into which the 'palestinians' have been inserted Both are manifestations of "ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM" ----<<<< see? simple that being the case both are bloody and dangerous to the civilized world

(COMMENT)

This is a matter of perspective. It is just as important that we be able to see ourselves through their eyes, as well as, we can see ourselves in the mirror.

There is very little question that we see Islamic Fanaticism as barbaric, cruel and inhuman - with little or no potential for cultural advancement; or corrupting the human genome, and poisoning the species as a whole. But that is a one was single view. They may hold a similar view of us.

Most Respectfully,
R

You seem like someone who would appreciate Mark Lilla's essay. It's a bit long but worth the time. I've posted a link and his conclusion:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/magazine/19Religion-t.html?scp=5&sq=the+politics+of+god&st=nyt

"In the end, though, what happens on the opposite shore will not be up to us. We have little reason to expect societies in the grip of a powerful political theology to follow our unusual path, which was opened up by a unique crisis within Christian civilization. This does not mean that those societies necessarily lack the wherewithal to create a decent and workable political order; it does mean that they will have to find the theological resources within their own traditions to make it happen.

Our challenge is different. We have made a choice that is at once simpler and harder: we have chosen to limit our politics to protecting individuals from the worst harms they can inflict on one another, to securing fundamental liberties and providing for their basic welfare, while leaving their spiritual destinies in their own hands. We have wagered that it is wiser to beware the forces unleashed by the Bible’s messianic promise than to try exploiting them for the public good. We have chosen to keep our politics unilluminated by divine revelation. All we have is our own lucidity, which we must train on a world where faith still inflames the minds of men."

 

[Roudy]

The Taliban isn't murdering "our military" in the US, are they?
If we weren't occupying another country in violation of international law, "our military" would not be getting killed by Muslims.
Maybe you should sign up for another tour, or two?

The taliban are islamicists who advocate the murder of non muslims----the same kind of people who join the taliban come to the US hoping to blow up TIMES SQUARE----on a saturday nite your concept of isolationism is really cute I assure you---it does not work----in fact isolationism was the major theme of the PRO HITLER propaganda of the mid-1930s -----both in england and in the USA and lots of disgusting people supported the idea

9/11 was a direct cause of our involvement and siding with Israel.

Nope. Osama hardly mentioned Israel in his initial list of complaints. American presence in Saudi Arabia, support of the Saudi royals, etc. were the big issues. Israel was added as an afterthought after the blame-America Muslims and liberals in the West kept diverting to it. True story.

 

[irosie91]

muslims have comitted genocides in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in the course of their 1400 year history
Is it not amazing that they have done so ALL BECAUSE of
ISRAEL? over 100 million in the Indian subcontinent
alone----all because of Israel----and more than 500 years ago.
Khartoum murdered two million christians----all because of
Israel and then there was Biafra and Armenia

for those who do not know----the real reason Iranians hate
arabs is-----well arabs murdered millions of Iranians don't tell anyone ------they did it for ALLAH -----who seems to now
be enjoying an enhanced reputation amongst the survivors

 

[RoccoR]

Roudy, ima, irosie91, et al,

Well, actually it probably would be more correct to say, that the "cause" is a compilation of all these things and more.

The taliban are islamicists who advocate the murder of non muslims----the same kind of people who join the taliban come to the US hoping to blow up TIMES SQUARE----on a saturday nite your concept of isolationism is really cute I assure you---it does not work----in fact isolationism was the major theme of the PRO HITLER propaganda of the mid-1930s -----both in england and in the USA and lots of disgusting people supported the idea

9/11 was a direct cause of our involvement and siding with Israel.

Nope. Osama hardly mentioned Israel in his initial list of complaints. American presence in Saudi Arabia, support of the Saudi royals, etc. were the big issues. Israel was added as an afterthought after the blame-America Muslims and liberals in the West kept diverting to it. True story.

(COMMENT)

The trouble has been brewing and building for decades. Our portion of the entire compilation is called a policy of US intervention and political-military hegemonist policies.

Much of the outside world views the US as a Police Type - Interventionist country; casting itself as above the law and the fray, that its position is the only correct position. Yes, they do not see the US as an honest broker for peace, or acting than other than its own best interest. For that reason the US is seen as untrustworthy, detrimental the the furtherance of peace; regional or otherwise.

These (less than flattering) views are are only further aggravated by the fanatical application of religious ferver. The 911 campaign and the focus of al-Qaeda, is only one aspect of a flashpoint by disaffected followers of cult like developers. Clearly, theirs is only one view, and America is only one contributor to the compilation of causes.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

irosie91, georgephillip, et al,

Don't get side tracked, mixing apples and oranges.

The Taliban isn't murdering "our military" in the US, are they?
If we weren't occupying another country in violation of international law, "our military" would not be getting killed by Muslims.
Maybe you should sign up for another tour, or two?

The taliban are islamicists who advocate the murder of non muslims----the same kind of people who join the taliban come to the US hoping to blow up TIMES SQUARE----on a saturday nite your concept of isolationism is really cute I assure you---it does not work----in fact isolationism was the major theme of the PRO HITLER propaganda of the mid-1930s -----both in england and in the USA and lots of disgusting people supported the idea

(COMMENT)

The Israeli/Palestinian issue is all about the Palestinian seeing themselves as the (virtual) victims of displacement, after the British Mandate, under a non-Islamic Government (Israel). The Palestinians see themselves as an indigenous population which have been displaced under a self proclaimed Jewish Regime.

The Taliban see themselves as a government in exile, displaced by a US Regime Change effort. The Taliban see themselves as an indigenous resistance force - fighting against the invasion and occupation, by foreign invaders, to reestablish their government.

These are two completely different situations, mutually exclusive of each other, with virtually nothing in common.

Most Respectfully,
R

One possible corporate commonality between the occupation of Afghanistan and Palestine might be the amount of revenue each conflict generates for US "defense" contractors. Perhaps a 100% "sin tax" applied to all war related revenues generated after the first innocent civilian dies would make peace more profitable?

 

[proudveteran06]

None of which would have occurred if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted a Jewish State on 1.2 million Arab citizens of Mandate Palestine in 1948. The Six Day War should more properly be remembered as the "Liberation of Judea and Samaria," although its Final Solution remains in doubt.

Translation; Not only did Israel not have the right to be created but it should be wiped off the map; even today. Which is why there can never be " peace". Israel will never go back to Borders that COULD have been the " Palestinian State" prior to 1967, be denied access to E. Jerusalem; Something that Jordan was OBLIGATED to do but of course didn't, or allow " Right of Return". The latter would wipe Israel off the map. That is not going to happen; Deal with it.

Ask ANY Pro- Palestinian what exactly they are doing to " negotiate" and there will be no answer. All they have are big mouths

While all you have to offer is your little brain.

Israel was conceived as an apartheid state in which Jews would rule over non-Jews.
The fiction of a Democratic Israel always depended upon a Jewish majority.
There are currently a million more non-Jews living between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River than there are Jews.

Ask any pro-racist tool to translate that math.

All you have to offer is your big mouth. Abbas declaring a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't racist? There aren't any Arabs in Israel? Know when a Pro- Palestinian lies? Everytime they open their mouth

 

[georgephillip]

There is a very important COMMONALITY----between the TALIBAN and the ARABIST MOVEMENT into which the 'palestinians' have been inserted Both are manifestations of "ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM" ----<<<< see? simple that being the case both are bloody and dangerous to the civilized world

Another commonality between the existence of the Taliban and the Jewish State is the US government's proclivity to enhance arms sales markets on behalf of western "defense" contractors. Without the help of the US government, both Israel and the Taliban would not exist in anything like their present forms.

 

[georgephillip]

Translation; Not only did Israel not have the right to be created but it should be wiped off the map; even today. Which is why there can never be " peace". Israel will never go back to Borders that COULD have been the " Palestinian State" prior to 1967, be denied access to E. Jerusalem; Something that Jordan was OBLIGATED to do but of course didn't, or allow " Right of Return". The latter would wipe Israel off the map. That is not going to happen; Deal with it.

Ask ANY Pro- Palestinian what exactly they are doing to " negotiate" and there will be no answer. All they have are big mouths

While all you have to offer is your little brain.

Israel was conceived as an apartheid state in which Jews would rule over non-Jews.
The fiction of a Democratic Israel always depended upon a Jewish majority.
There are currently a million more non-Jews living between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River than there are Jews.

Ask any pro-racist tool to translate that math.

All you have to offer is your big mouth. Abbas declaring a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't racist? There aren't any Arabs in Israel? Know when a Pro- Palestinian lies? Everytime they open their mouth

NJA...As in "No Jew Assassins", Einstein.
Or do you believe the "IDF-chosen" should be allowed to continue killing Muslim children for sport?

 

[Hossfly]

While all you have to offer is your little brain.

Israel was conceived as an apartheid state in which Jews would rule over non-Jews.
The fiction of a Democratic Israel always depended upon a Jewish majority.
There are currently a million more non-Jews living between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River than there are Jews.

Ask any pro-racist tool to translate that math.

All you have to offer is your big mouth. Abbas declaring a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't racist? There aren't any Arabs in Israel? Know when a Pro- Palestinian lies? Everytime they open their mouth

NJA...As in "No Jew Assassins", Einstein.
Or do you believe the "IDF-chosen" should be allowed to continue killing Muslim children for sport?

Dummheit.

 

[irosie91]

Israel was conceived as a land in which jews would not be oppressed----which to
a person like GEORGIE is ----grossly OPPRESSIVE. I am not at all surprised.
I grew up in a town of nazi pigs which is why I read nazi literature as a child.
The stuff was LYING AROUND in sleazy pamphlets and weird magazines.
The town had been RESTRICTED until the post war baby boom and--those VA
mortgages --TEMPTED the towns people to BUILD and ----even to sell to <gasp>
JOOOOOOOS that was us. But they still managed to keep the town LILY-
WHITE------to them DESEGREGATION WAS GROSS OPPRESSION ----to them-
selves I remember it well----the children of the nazis were INDIGNANT during
the 1960s civil rights era.

later on ----I went to college----a good friend of mine was a BRAHMIN HINDU---
he repudiated the whole caste idea-----but told me about his UNCLE ---who was
INDIGNANT that the "scheduled castes" were "GETTING EVERYTHING"

See Georgie-?---you are not alone----nazi pigs do not easily give up their
PERQUISITES.

 

[georgephillip]

All you have to offer is your big mouth. Abbas declaring a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't racist? There aren't any Arabs in Israel? Know when a Pro- Palestinian lies? Everytime they open their mouth

NJA...As in "No Jew Assassins", Einstein.
Or do you believe the "IDF-chosen" should be allowed to continue killing Muslim children for sport?

Dummheit.

Had you been born a generation earlier in Duderstadt, would you have goose-stepped for Hitler?

 

[Hossfly]

NJA...As in "No Jew Assassins", Einstein.
Or do you believe the "IDF-chosen" should be allowed to continue killing Muslim children for sport?

Dummheit.

Had you been born a generation earlier in Duderstadt, would you have goose-stepped for Hitler?

I don't goose step, I elephant stomp. On Nazis.

 

[georgephillip]

Israel was conceived as a land in which jews would not be oppressed----which to
a person like GEORGIE is ----grossly OPPRESSIVE. I am not at all surprised.
I grew up in a town of nazi pigs which is why I read nazi literature as a child.
The stuff was LYING AROUND in sleazy pamphlets and weird magazines.
The town had been RESTRICTED until the post war baby boom and--those VA
mortgages --TEMPTED the towns people to BUILD and ----even to sell to <gasp>
JOOOOOOOS that was us. But they still managed to keep the town LILY-
WHITE------to them DESEGREGATION WAS GROSS OPPRESSION ----to them-
selves I remember it well----the children of the nazis were INDIGNANT during
the 1960s civil rights era.

later on ----I went to college----a good friend of mine was a BRAHMIN HINDU---
he repudiated the whole caste idea-----but told me about his UNCLE ---who was
INDIGNANT that the "scheduled castes" were "GETTING EVERYTHING"

See Georgie-?---you are not alone----nazi pigs do not easily give up their
PERQUISITES.

Which has exactly what to do with the popular sovereignty aspects of five million Jews ruling six million Arabs? Racist conservatives were a staple in my hometown, as well. Which is why I don't accord Jews any more human rights than Arabs. Why are you consistently stuck on bigot?

 

[georgephillip]

Dummheit.

Had you been born a generation earlier in Duderstadt, would you have goose-stepped for Hitler?

I don't goose step, I elephant stomp. On Nazis.

Accident of birth.

 

[proudveteran06]

While all you have to offer is your little brain.

Israel was conceived as an apartheid state in which Jews would rule over non-Jews.
The fiction of a Democratic Israel always depended upon a Jewish majority.
There are currently a million more non-Jews living between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River than there are Jews.

Ask any pro-racist tool to translate that math.

All you have to offer is your little brain and a Big Mouth. Israel ( Where a Jewish Majority) and Non- Jews live is " Apartheid" but a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't? How do you feel about other Arab States where Jews aren't allowed? Of course you do not see anything wrong with that; You racist bigot.

Still can't tell me what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate". That's because you can't. All you can offer is your Anti- Israel, Pro- Palestinian bigoted, racist Big Mouth

WHICH IS WHY THERE WILL NEVER BE A " PALESTINIAN STATE"

So your excuse for Israel to be an apartheid state is because the arabs do it? Nice.

Israel isn't an " Apartheid State". Israel does have Arabs in it. A big difference between that and Abbas announcing a NJA Policy. If you are really against " Apartheid" why don't you condemn the NJA Policy? Because you and the rest of the Pro- Palestinian posters are nothing but a bunch of racist bigoted Hypocrites. Nothing new

 

[proudveteran06]

While all you have to offer is your little brain.

Israel was conceived as an apartheid state in which Jews would rule over non-Jews.
The fiction of a Democratic Israel always depended upon a Jewish majority.
There are currently a million more non-Jews living between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River than there are Jews.

Ask any pro-racist tool to translate that math.

All you have to offer is your big mouth. Abbas declaring a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't racist? There aren't any Arabs in Israel? Know when a Pro- Palestinian lies? Everytime they open their mouth

NJA...As in "No Jew Assassins", Einstein.
Or do you believe the "IDF-chosen" should be allowed to continue killing Muslim children for sport?

Don't see anything wrong with Abbas declaring a NO Jew Allowed Policy? Typical Pro- Palestinian Racist Bigot.

 

[irosie91]

Israel was conceived as a land in which jews would not be oppressed----which to
a person like GEORGIE is ----grossly OPPRESSIVE. I am not at all surprised.
I grew up in a town of nazi pigs which is why I read nazi literature as a child.
The stuff was LYING AROUND in sleazy pamphlets and weird magazines.
The town had been RESTRICTED until the post war baby boom and--those VA
mortgages --TEMPTED the towns people to BUILD and ----even to sell to <gasp>
JOOOOOOOS that was us. But they still managed to keep the town LILY-
WHITE------to them DESEGREGATION WAS GROSS OPPRESSION ----to them-
selves I remember it well----the children of the nazis were INDIGNANT during
the 1960s civil rights era.

later on ----I went to college----a good friend of mine was a BRAHMIN HINDU---
he repudiated the whole caste idea-----but told me about his UNCLE ---who was
INDIGNANT that the "scheduled castes" were "GETTING EVERYTHING"

See Georgie-?---you are not alone----nazi pigs do not easily give up their
PERQUISITES.

Which has exactly what to do with the popular sovereignty aspects of five million Jews ruling six million Arabs? Racist conservatives were a staple in my hometown, as well. Which is why I don't accord Jews any more human rights than Arabs. Why are you consistently stuck on bigot?

Your claim regarding "five million jews, ruling six million arabs" is absurd------you are referring to an OCCUPATION of a hostile nation that attempted ----in 1967---under the leadership of GAMAL ABDUL NASSER---to annhilate Israel ------those people living in lands under occupation are NOT CITIZENS just as the people of JAPAN were not citizens of the USA in the post world war era when the USA OCCUPIED JAPAN In fact-----as far as I know----the people of the VIRGIN ISLANDS do not vote in USA elections either I am not even sure your numbers are correct ------are you including GAZA in the "RULED ARABS" category?-----in fact they are not being RULED-----in some cases based on their HOSTILE stance and love of murdering jewish infants-----Israel tries to restrict them and their most favored activities in honor of ALLAH/ISA Jews have a 1400 year experience with ISLAMIC DOMINANCE-----may you and yours be so HONORED in the same way the Sudanese christians were honored by KHARTOUM I support the rights of ALL PEOPLE----in some cases ----LARGER POPULATIONS must be forced to leave smaller populations in peace Some LARGER POPULATIONS use the word DEMOCRACY conferring upon them the "RIGHT" to rape, murder and pillage----------ie---people like you

If the issue of black slavery was left to the MAJORITY of USA SOUTHERNERS-------blacks would still be picking cotton in Alabama in chains.

It is very likely that the christians of Egypt will be divested of lots of rights based on YOUR
concept of "DEMOCRACY" In my home town-----the vote against having blacks in the town----WON but later on -----as the town got diverse----the MAJORITY could not stop private home sales to -----blacks When I was a kid my mom often said in defiance of our neighbors-----WHEN I SELL THIS HOUSE--ITS GOING TO A COLORED FAMILY

 

[P F Tinmore]

All you have to offer is your little brain and a Big Mouth. Israel ( Where a Jewish Majority) and Non- Jews live is " Apartheid" but a NJA " Palestinian State" isn't? How do you feel about other Arab States where Jews aren't allowed? Of course you do not see anything wrong with that; You racist bigot.

Still can't tell me what the Palestinians are doing to " negotiate". That's because you can't. All you can offer is your Anti- Israel, Pro- Palestinian bigoted, racist Big Mouth

WHICH IS WHY THERE WILL NEVER BE A " PALESTINIAN STATE"

So your excuse for Israel to be an apartheid state is because the arabs do it? Nice.

Israel isn't an " Apartheid State". Israel does have Arabs in it. A big difference between that and Abbas announcing a NJA Policy. If you are really against " Apartheid" why don't you condemn the NJA Policy? Because you and the rest of the Pro- Palestinian posters are nothing but a bunch of racist bigoted Hypocrites. Nothing new

NJA? Do you have a link?

 

[ima]

So your excuse for Israel to be an apartheid state is because the arabs do it? Nice.

Israel isn't an " Apartheid State". Israel does have Arabs in it. A big difference between that and Abbas announcing a NJA Policy. If you are really against " Apartheid" why don't you condemn the NJA Policy? Because you and the rest of the Pro- Palestinian posters are nothing but a bunch of racist bigoted Hypocrites. Nothing new

NJA? Do you have a link?

I'm pretty sure that the whites in South Africa had blacks around to be maids and what not also.