What is it that ideas and people are 'left' or 'right' of?

[there4eyeM]

Is France 'free-er' than the U.S.?

I'd say not, I'd say it has more restrictions on liberty in order to benefit the group. For instance, it must meet stricter carbon standards than those in the US.

Yet, the group provides health care, for example, to the individual, providing for freedom from suffering. It can also be argued that stricter air standards do the same thing; i.e., assure greater possibilities for health and resultant freedom.

 

[cnm]

Yet, the group provides health care, for example, to the individual, providing for freedom from suffering.

It provides freedom - by health care in this case - to the group by restricting the freedom of the individual. As do strict air standards.

 

[cnm]

Let me rephrase my assertion by saying I'm often told the USA has the most individual liberty and that 'freedom' is its guiding light. As opposed to my nation, NZ, Aotearoa, where 'fairness' is the go to metric. The US is more right wing than NZ by just about any measure.

“Fairness and Freedom: A History of Two Open Societies, New Zealand and the United States,” by David Hackett Fischer

 

[DustyInfinity]

It gets really ugly when you start going into what 'restrictions' are necessary and 'good' for the group. It always comes down to Plato and what the role of government actually is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

They don't really mean anything

 

[cnm]

It always comes down to Plato and what the role of government actually is.

Yeah, well, Plato's idea of government was that it provided positions for philosophers. Mine is that it administers the nation in accordance with the desires of its citizens.

 

[cnm]

Like valid morals, 'good' restrictions will aid the survival of the community/nation.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Like valid morals, 'good' restrictions will aid the survival of the community/nation.

The individual always trumps the collective

 

[midcan5]

Meaning is in the head of the user. (see Sapolsky below) Labels are a creation of the powerful and the propagandist whether in business or politics. I have been trying to tell the democrats they need to learn 'label use' but they still think people think. People often don't have time to think and I mean that seriously - that is read and investigate. And if you watch Fox or other ideology supported media you only get their view.

When I grew up everyone was liberal, (see Eisenhower quotes) we lived in the golden age of American history, the war and the creation of the welfare state along with corporations that cared about people made for a positive experience for many. There were still many problems for minorities and others but then Vietnam, racism, globalism and dark money were on the sidelines. If you truly want to understand America today read read read look look look. A list is below.

"President Eisenhower describes his administration's political philosophy as 'dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive, dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive moderation,' then as 'moderate progressivism,' and then as 'positive progressivism.'" William Manchester, quote from 'The Glory and the Dream' (great history read)

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." President Dwight Eisenhower

"And I should like to assure you, my Islamic friends, that under the American Constitution, under American tradition, and in American hearts, this Center, this place of worship, is just as welcome as could be a similar edifice of any other religion. Indeed, America would fight with her whole strength for your right to have here your own church and worship according to your own conscience. This concept is indeed a part of America, and without that concept we would be something else than what we are." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Essays:
I Know Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
Overcoming Us vs. Them
How do elites manage to hijack voters’ ideas of themselves? | Aeon Essays
Group instinct & the white tribals of America | ORF
Is the Republican Party Still Conservative? - The Atlantic

Books:
Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan by Kim Phillips-Fein
Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right by Jane Mayer
Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right by Arlie Russell Hochschild
The View From Flyover Country: Essays by Sarah Kendzior by Sarah Kendzior
Injustices: The Supreme Court's History of Comforting the Comfortable and Afflicting the Afflicted by Ian Millhiser

"Try to be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations" Monty Python 'The Meaning of Life'

 

[Penelope]

Let me rephrase my assertion by saying I'm often told the USA has the most individual liberty and that 'freedom' is its guiding light. As opposed to my nation, NZ, Aotearoa, where 'fairness' is the go to metric. The US is more right wing than NZ by just about any measure.

“Fairness and Freedom: A History of Two Open Societies, New Zealand and the United States,” by David Hackett Fischer

I couldn't reach your link.

 

[Darkwind]

Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

The freedom of the individual contrasted with the good of the group.

Individual freedom is greatly influenced by how things are for the group. A happy, satisfied group means more scope of possibilities. An angry, frustrated group limits dynamics for the individual. It is in the interest of freedom that the group prosper. The group need not be as interested in the individual. That puts the group in the center, yes, but the individual is in orbit around it, not simply to the right or left.

Wow. Do you need some bengay?

Individualism requires no group; to orbit or otherwise.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Let me rephrase my assertion by saying I'm often told the USA has the most individual liberty and that 'freedom' is its guiding light. As opposed to my nation, NZ, Aotearoa, where 'fairness' is the go to metric. The US is more right wing than NZ by just about any measure.

“Fairness and Freedom: A History of Two Open Societies, New Zealand and the United States,” by David Hackett Fischer

I couldn't reach your link.

Reading has always been your problem. It is common among libtards to have reading comprehension issues. It is what makes you a libtard.

 

[TNHarley]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

/——/ Mostly Left or right of the original intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights

Then a lot of righties arent really righties. A lot of them, especially on here, dont give one iota about the Constitution.
Are they liars?

 

[cnm]

The individual always trumps the collective

Yeah, right.

 

[Darkwind]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

In America, for Me, the center is what the Founding Fathers and their generation adhered to. The left and the right go from that anchor point.

 

[TNHarley]

Center is the place to be....

I am pretty close to center on any political quiz, yet, all i do is think about each instance, and consider our constitution and whats right.
What does the "center" mean to you?

 

[cnm]

I couldn't reach your link.

Try opening it in a private window, perhaps. That's what I did.

 

[TNHarley]

The individual always trumps the collective

Yeah, right.

It should. Thats what freedom is.

 

[cnm]

The left and the right

But what to you constitutes right and left?

 

[cnm]

It should. Thats what freedom is.

I suggest the collective built the freeways.