What in the hell is wrong with people?

[Papageorgio]

Okay, I realize this runs the risk of being bumped over to the Flame Zone board, but I am genuinely not intending to flame here. I think this is a legitimate topic of discussion amongst the non-crazy people in society. Every day, I am confronted with yet another liberal who seems to have completely lost their mind.

...

and after you define what a 'liberal' is you will be exposed. why? because your caricature is one force fed by right wing media that demands a polarized society -- with us or against us -- conservative or liberal

I think this administration has done a lot to polarize America. Healthcare was insurance companies vs. poor, doctors vs poor, comments about Treyvon could be his son. Clinging to guns, God and religion. Taxes, its rich vs. poor. illegal aliens vs. slave wage companies. Republicans vs. women, straight vs gay. You didn't build that.

The list of dividing goes on and on, this administration has done nothing but divide.

The Republicans have not been much better, but when the President tells you that they won and you have to play by my rules, it isn't exactly extending a handshake across the aisle. It is more like giving the other party the F you and the Republicans responded accordingly.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

That's right.....show the OP how much conservatives are open to working with liberals. Good boy.

Working with liberals to do what, accelerate the demise of our country? Screw you, when is the last time Democrats worked with Republicans or even compromised one inch on anything? Maybe if Obama acted like a president and thought about what's best for the country instead of acting like a dictator and what's best for him, he would get some help, but when he says shit like "If Congress won't do what I tell them, I'll do it without them", wtf do you expect? Yeah, drink some more of that kool aid.

Broken record. Democrats compromised too much. When we stopped....your guys threw a tantrum and shut down the government. Your entire political agenda hinges on NOT COMPROMISING. One of Obama's weaknesses is thinking that the GOP were going to be honest players. He failed to see that no help was coming.

The republicans threw a tantrum? THE REPUBLICANS THREW A TANTRUM? No wonder you're a liberal, you'll believe anything. Let me ask you this, let's say I owed you $100, but I come to you only able to pay $99; do you take the money and be happy you got that, or do you refuse anything unless you get everything? Answer that honestly, and you'll understand who really shut down the government (and who also took credit for the postives that resulted from the gov't shutdown later).

As for NOT COMPROMISING, another question to you; which current Obama administration member AND former US Senator said these words;

"Sometimes your accomplishments are not in what you get done but in what you stop other people from doing."

Funny that no liberal yet on this message board has been willing/able to answer this question...

 

[Dirk the Daring]

The OP is hilarious because if you replace "liberal" with "conservative and "Bush" with "Obama" I think most Democrats would agree with his post.

yeah the OP sort of says it all. It's like Iraq and the real estate boom and credit meltdown never happened. Both sides have selective amnesia.

'Selective amnesia...' Huh. Have you ever heard of the Iraq Liberation Act? Who signed it? What was it's purpose?

 

[Dirk the Daring]

Torn between two commies.

That's right.....show the OP how much conservatives are open to working with liberals. Good boy.

Working with liberals to do what, accelerate the demise of our country? Screw you, when is the last time Democrats worked with Republicans or even compromised one inch on anything? Maybe if Obama acted like a president and thought about what's best for the country instead of acting like a dictator and what's best for him, he would get some help, but when he says shit like "If Congress won't do what I tell them, I'll do it without them", wtf do you expect? Yeah, drink some more of that kool aid.

There is literally no benefit from compromising with liberals. Because when the endeavor envitably fails, liberals will completely absolve themselves from any and all responsibility. For examples of this, see Iraq War; see No Child Left Behind; see Dept of Homeland Security; see 2008 Market Crash; etc...

 

[Dirk the Daring]

The ACA is based on a Republican initiative. It is modeled after Romney's signature plan for MA. This is an indisputable fact. Liberals compromised by abandoning single payer and the public option.

The fact that no Republicans voted for a bill that was such a great compromise is evidence of GOP intransigence. You are trying to use it as proof that liberals don't compromise. You are in backward land.

You want more, I assume. You want Republican initiatives where liberals compromised in the last decade. Hmmmmmmmmmm. I'm trying to think of a GOP initiative...................

The ACA was NOT a Republican initiative, and I am disputing that because not a single Republican voted for it. It's a LIE that there was any compromise for Republicans because NO Republican voted for it. The TRUTH is, the compromise was in order to gain DEMOCRAT votes so ACA would pass. What a RINO governor did in the most liberal state in America, has nothing to with Republicans.

B-but but... that touchdown didn't count!! Waah!

Face it Boss. Mittens is a lifelong Republican who did the same thing to Massachusetts that O'bama did to the country. It was a stupid idea then and it's the same stupid idea now. So yes, what Governor Romney (R) did, regardless what state he was governor of, does indeed have to do with Republicans. By definition.

Drunken rambling rant in the wee hours of the morning: 17 minutes. Jumping to specious reasoning and wild generalizations as argument: 3.3 nanoseconds.

Having it both ways: Priceless.

Ok, so wait. You really want the entire board, as well as anyone who has ever/will ever have access to the internet, to know how much of an idiot you are? Are you really proclaiming in front of the entire planet that initiating a program at the state level is EXACTLY THE SAME AS initiating a program at the federal level? My gosh... no wonder you're a liberal...

 

[Dirk the Daring]

Funny thread. A review of counter points makes the OP all the more ridiculous but that doesn't matter to ideologues. I did find it funny that there were 'thanks' to this meaningless un-substantive OP.

Thanks for what?

AgentSparky (Yesterday), AntiParty (07-21-2014), BluesMistress (07-21-2014), bripat9643 (07-21-2014), Claudette (Yesterday), Dayton3 (07-21-2014), deltex1 (07-21-2014), Erand7899 (07-21-2014), Freewill (07-21-2014), healthmyths (07-21-2014), HereWeGoAgain (07-21-2014), hortysir (07-21-2014), LadyGunSlinger (07-21-2014), Locke11_21 (Yesterday), NLT (07-21-2014), Pete7469 (Yesterday), Rambunctious (07-21-2014), Redfish (Yesterday), SAYIT (07-21-2014), thereisnospoon (07-21-2014), tinydancer (07-21-2014), Toddsterpatriot (07-21-2014), Wildcard (07-21-2014), Wildman (07-21-2014)

My reply is below, but I will comment again on manufacturing in America and cars in particular. Putting pieces together is one part of making an auto, if we are serious about our jobs and technology we have to consider the many other pieces: design, development, testing, manufacture, and even distribution. Foreign car makers make lots here and of course they put the cars together in the South, what else can they do when they have little manufacturing and their industries all went to China? Consider clothing and furniture as examples. The right wing in America is so brain washed by corporate think tanks and other propaganda sources they'd cut off their nose..... This site is for the non-ideologues who still think about America's workers and its values.

The Level Field Institute

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-hell-is-wrong-with-people-9.html#post9487243

How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much - Forbes

"In every society, manufacturing builds the lower middle class. If you give up manufacturing, you end up with haves and have-nots and you get social polarization. The whole lower middle class sinks." Vaclav Smil This Is the Man Bill Gates Thinks You Absolutely Should Be Reading | Science | WIRED

"Thanks to the rules, many of which are written by corporations, a company can pull up stakes and use cheap foreign labor to make the same product it once did in America. It no longer has to meet environmental standards. It no longer has to abide by U.S. labor laws. It no longer has to pay a decent wage. Then the company can ship the product back to the United States where, courtesy of the rules, it will pay little if any duty. How can American workers hope to compete against that? They can't.

Lisa Gentner worked at a company called Carrollton Specialty Products, housed in a one-story warehouse in Moberly, Missouri, a town of 15,000 in central Missouri. Carrollton was a subcontractor for Hallmark Cards, the global greeting card giant based 125 miles west in Kansas City, Missouri. The largely female workforce of 200 provided the hand assembly for a variety of Hallmark products. They tied bows and affixed them to valentines and anniversary greetings. They glued buttons, rhinestones, and pop-ups inside birthday cards. They made gift baskets.

As in many towns across the country, the plant was an economic anchor for Moberly. Manufacturing is often pictured as a big-city enterprise, but a substantial number of plants are the lifeblood of small to medium-sized cities...."

Quote from p24 'Assault on the Middle Class' in 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' authors, Barlett and Steele

[ame=http://youtu.be/bNmKXaEF9RI?t=33m30s]Mr. Schiff goes to Washington. Peter Schiff's - First Congressional Testimony - YouTube[/ame]

Since you're a liberal most of this video will sail past your level of intellect, but if you'll skip ahead to about the 33:30 mark you may hear some conversation relevant to your post above....

 

[Montrovant]

I love how it took almost no time for this thread to show how wrong the OP is; that no matter the 'side' the kind of us vs them, rail against the opposition whatever they may espouse, slave to partisan politics mentality is shared all around.

It sometimes seems as though this board is made up of 45% Republicans/conservatives telling us how Democrats/liberals are destroying the country, 45% is just the opposite, then the remaining 10% is actual conversation.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I love how it took almost no time for this thread to show how wrong the OP is; that no matter the 'side' the kind of us vs them, rail against the opposition whatever they may espouse, slave to partisan politics mentality is shared all around.

It sometimes seems as though this board is made up of 45% Republicans/conservatives telling us how Democrats/liberals are destroying the country, 45% is just the opposite, then the remaining 10% is actual conversation.

Shit ain't equal, friend. If you had said 65, 25 and 10......you might be closer to the truth.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Every day, I am confronted with yet another liberal who seems to have completely lost their mind. At first, I thought it was just a simple difference in ideology, which is normally a good thing in political discourse, you need another side to certain arguments, it is a healthy thing for society to have contrasting viewpoints. . . . . .


Is this something in the water they're drinking? Hormones in the meat? Have radical Islamists contaminated our food supply? Are they under some kind of hypnotic spell? Minds being controlled by aliens? What in the hell is wrong with people???

Your problem is that you're misdiagnosing your encounters. You're operating from a position of reasoned political thinking and believing that your liberal counterpart is doing the same. He's not, he's operating from a religious point of view, he's in the realm of faith. Liberalism has replaced Christianity as a faith-based religious view of how the world works.

Religion is very normative - it prescribes how things should be, so too with liberalism. There are countless liberal positions which run counter to how reality works, and liberals expect that their faith-based viewpoint will trump reality, no matter how many times they get hit over the head with reality.

It's kind of like believing in God during a disaster which kills many people, perhaps even where there is a lot of pain and suffering. God isn't supposed to be doing that kind of stuff to people, and yet, there are all sorts of rationalizations trotted out to explain why reality differs from theology.

Religion is about faith, not reason, and you expecting to have a rational political discussion with a liberal simply means that you're still believing that liberals haven't transcended into the realm of faith with their adherence to liberal scriptures.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Every day, I am confronted with yet another liberal who seems to have completely lost their mind. At first, I thought it was just a simple difference in ideology, which is normally a good thing in political discourse, you need another side to certain arguments, it is a healthy thing for society to have contrasting viewpoints. . . . . .


Is this something in the water they're drinking? Hormones in the meat? Have radical Islamists contaminated our food supply? Are they under some kind of hypnotic spell? Minds being controlled by aliens? What in the hell is wrong with people???

Your problem is that you're misdiagnosing your encounters. You're operating from a position of reasoned political thinking and believing that your liberal counterpart is doing the same. He's not, he's operating from a religious point of view, he's in the realm of faith. Liberalism has replaced Christianity as a faith-based religious view of how the world works.

Religion is very normative - it prescribes how things should be, so too with liberalism. There are countless liberal positions which run counter to how reality works, and liberals expect that their faith-based viewpoint will trump reality, no matter how many times they get hit over the head with reality.

It's kind of like believing in God during a disaster which kills many people, perhaps even where there is a lot of pain and suffering. God isn't supposed to be doing that kind of stuff to people, and yet, there are all sorts of rationalizations trotted out to explain why reality differs from theology.

Religion is about faith, not reason, and you expecting to have a rational political discussion with a liberal simply means that you're still believing that liberals haven't transcended into the realm of faith with their adherence to liberal scriptures.

Surely, you can provide examples. Also....what are the "liberal scriptures"?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Surely, you can provide examples. Also....what are the "liberal scriptures"?

No problem. Since time immemorial reality has shown us that tribes, clans, and societies can be weakened by creating division with the groups, hence the maxim "Divide and Conquer."

What do liberals believe as scripture? "Diversity is our strength." They're on a continual mission to foster more division in society because their faith tells them that this is a "good" thing.

There is no historical example, nor a contemporary example, which supports this position. Yugoslavia fractured due to diversity. Rwanda the same. Iraq is going through death spasms now because of diversity. Yet liberals are on a faith-based mission to increase diversity in America, they're orgasmic about the changing racial demographics.

I don't believe that they are knowingly cheering on societal destruction, they likely believe that they are doing good things by doing what they do. Faith is orthogonal to reason. If their championing of diversity was based on reason then they should be able to point to some example and declare "That multicultural society shows us the better way and that is why we need to ramp up diversity, destroy homogeneity in our society, because as we can see in County X, the outcome for us will be glorious." Instead we see Yugoslavia, Iraq, Rwanda, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, etc as the beacons of glorious multiculturalism and they're, frankly, not really good calling cards for the slogan "Diversity is our strength" and so if reason is not the motivating factor, then it sure looks like faith is driving liberals - an irrational belief in a proposition that is contradicted by real world, historical and contemporary, evidence.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Surely, you can provide examples. Also....what are the "liberal scriptures"?

No problem. Since time immemorial reality has shown us that tribes, clans, and societies can be weakened by creating division with the groups, hence the maxim "Divide and Conquer."

What do liberals believe as scripture? "Diversity is our strength." They're on a continual mission to foster more division in society because their faith tells them that this is a "good" thing.

There is no historical example, nor a contemporary example, which supports this position. Yugoslavia fractured due to diversity. Rwanda the same. Iraq is going through death spasms now because of diversity. Yet liberals are on a faith-based mission to increase diversity in America, they're orgasmic about the changing racial demographics.

I don't believe that they are knowingly cheering on societal destruction, they likely believe that they are doing good things by doing what they do. Faith is orthogonal to reason. If their championing of diversity was based on reason then they should be able to point to some example and declare "That multicultural society shows us the better way and that is why we need to ramp up diversity, destroy homogeneity in our society, because as we can see in County X, the outcome for us will be glorious." Instead we see Yugoslavia, Iraq, Rwanda, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, etc as the beacons of glorious multiculturalism and they're, frankly, not really good calling cards for the slogan "Diversity is our strength" and so if reason is not the motivating factor, then it sure looks like faith is driving liberals - an irrational belief in a proposition that is contradicted by real world, historical and contemporary, evidence.

You are ranting about diversity for some reason. I didn't ask you about diversity.
Are you a white supremacist? By the way.....America would be a case where diversity has worked. We are a great country, aren't we?

Where are the examples of liberals believing things that are counter to reality. You said there are "countless" examples. Let's go. Give me some.

 

[Rikurzhen]

You are ranting about diversity for some reason. I didn't ask you about diversity.

I'm not ranting about diversity, I'm DIRECTLY addressing your question. You wanted evidence of liberal scripture. At no time in history have societies been strengthened by increasing division within the society and yet liberals believe that the way to strengthen American is to turn the dial on diversity up to 11. That's an assault on reason. What it demonstrates is a faith-based position that is contradicted by evidence.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are ranting about diversity for some reason. I didn't ask you about diversity.

I'm not ranting about diversity, I'm DIRECTLY addressing your question. You wanted evidence of liberal scripture. At no time in history have societies been strengthened by increasing division within the society and yet liberals believe that the way to strengthen American is to turn the dial on diversity up to 11. That's an assault on reason. What it demonstrates is a faith-based position that is contradicted by evidence.

Cue the Twilight Zone theme song. We've got us a live one.

I have asked a total of three questions. You haven't answered any....especially not directly. Here they are again.

What are some of the countless things that liberals believe that are counter to reality?

What are the liberal scriptures? Meaning....where can. I read them? If they are coming from you in the form of dopey rants, how can I possibly be a "follower"?

Are you a white supremacist?

 

[Rikurzhen]

You are ranting about diversity for some reason. I didn't ask you about diversity. Are you a white supremacist? By the way.....America would be a case where diversity has worked. We are a great country, aren't we?

I take it that you're a liberal and that I've offended you by pointing out that liberals are religious creatures. The hint that you've dropped? You didn't respond to the substance of my comment, you sought to disqualify it by insinuating that I'm a white supremacist (Heritic, burn witch burn) because I challenge your faith-based belief that "Diversity is our strength." I have evidence on my side, you have faith on yours. You and I are replicating the very dynamic I referenced in my comment to the OP except that I recognize that you can't be influenced by reason if your faith is challenged.

A person arguing from reason would engage the substance of a comment and WHO they were arguing with would be immaterial.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are ranting about diversity for some reason. I didn't ask you about diversity. Are you a white supremacist? By the way.....America would be a case where diversity has worked. We are a great country, aren't we?

I take it that you're a liberal and that I've offended you by pointing out that liberals are religious creatures. The hint that you've dropped? You didn't respond to the substance of my comment, you sought to disqualify it by insinuating that I'm a white supremacist (Heritic, burn witch burn) because I challenge your faith-based believe that "Diversity is our strength." I have evidence on my side, you have faith on yours. You and I are replicating the very dynamic I referenced in my comment to the OP except that I recognize that you can't be influenced by reason if your faith is challenged.

A person arguing from reason would engage the substance of a comment and WHO they were arguing with would be immaterial.

I'm a liberal. You cannot offend me.

I'm mocking you for saying a bunch of shit that you made up and presenting it as some kind of evidence. Your comments lack substance and you have refused to respond to direct questions.

I did not insinuate......I asked. If you are not a white supremacist, all you need to do is say so. If you are....just say so. Honesty works.

Are you going to begin having a conversation?

 

[Rikurzhen]

What are some of the countless things that liberals believe that are counter to reality?

Here's another one. Liberals seem to understand that if they raise taxes on gasoline that this will result in making driving more expensive and more people will migrate towards public transit. They also seem to understand that if they raise the taxes on cigarettes that this will reduce the consumption of cigarettes but when it comes to taxes on income or capital gains, they believe that people's behavior will not be influenced. Does that seem rational to you? That sure looks like faith to me.

 

[TooTall]

We actually have many conservatives bemoaning good economic news because they perceive such good news as somehow detrimental to their political agenda.

Are they really that blind and partisan to not realize that they're hoping for the American people to continue suffering?

What the hell is wrong with people?

I was not thrilled with the latest GDP of minus 2.9%. But you probably called that good economic news.

 

[JoeB131]

Surely, you can provide examples. Also....what are the "liberal scriptures"?

No problem. Since time immemorial reality has shown us that tribes, clans, and societies can be weakened by creating division with the groups, hence the maxim "Divide and Conquer."

What do liberals believe as scripture? "Diversity is our strength." They're on a continual mission to foster more division in society because their faith tells them that this is a "good" thing.

There is no historical example, nor a contemporary example, which supports this position. Yugoslavia fractured due to diversity. Rwanda the same. Iraq is going through death spasms now because of diversity. Yet liberals are on a faith-based mission to increase diversity in America, they're orgasmic about the changing racial demographics.

I don't believe that they are knowingly cheering on societal destruction, they likely believe that they are doing good things by doing what they do. Faith is orthogonal to reason. If their championing of diversity was based on reason then they should be able to point to some example and declare "That multicultural society shows us the better way and that is why we need to ramp up diversity, destroy homogeneity in our society, because as we can see in County X, the outcome for us will be glorious." Instead we see Yugoslavia, Iraq, Rwanda, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, etc as the beacons of glorious multiculturalism and they're, frankly, not really good calling cards for the slogan "Diversity is our strength" and so if reason is not the motivating factor, then it sure looks like faith is driving liberals - an irrational belief in a proposition that is contradicted by real world, historical and contemporary, evidence.

The underlying problem with those examples is that the people who eventualy broke away never really agreed to be part of those countries to start with.

Yugoslavia, for example was not the Croats and Slovenes and Serbs all getting together like a garage band and saying, "Let's make an awesome country". Instead it was a case of other countries putting Croats and Slovenes under the thumbs of the Serbs, and then wondering they they didn't like it.

In fact, every country you list above was not a case of "Self-Determination", but of other powers deciding to create maps based on political expediency.

Now, the reality is, the US is diverse. It is made up of different groups. And for a long time, White people were (and still are) in the majority.

So who was responsible for the 'divisiveness". I'd argue it was conservatives playing on white insecurities with ROnald Reagan's "Welfare Queen" remarks and George Bush's "Willie Horton" ads. I'd argue it was guys like Tancredo comparing illegal immigrants to terrorists and calling them criminals and Jan Brewer issuing orders for her cops to pull over people who were "Driving while Brown" and making them prove they were citizens.

And hey, for a while it worked for you guys. THat "while' being 1968 - 1988.

NOw it's backfiring on you because the "others" you worked against have enough votes to make a difference and not all white people are falling for the bullshit anymore.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I'm mocking you for saying a bunch of shit that you made up and presenting it as some kind of evidence. Your comments lack substance and you have refused to respond to direct questions.

You're not mocking me, you're embarrassing yourself by attempting to mock me and you're failing spectacularly.

I did not insinuate......I asked. If you are not a white supremacist, all you need to do is say so. If you are....just say so. Honesty works.

This is a poisoning of the well and it's a standard liberal disqualification tactic. Right out of the gate you launched on the character assassination gambit. Shame on you.

Anyone conversant with reason understands that an argument stands or falls on its own merits, not on whether a Democrat like Fred Phelps makes the argument.

Are you going to begin having a conversation?

After you stop poisoning the well and perhaps after you tell me whether you still beat your wife. Get it?