What If..........?

[AVG-JOE]

As individual people, the wisest thing to do in life is to save for and invest towards the future... I'm looking at my stock account and I'm pleasantly surprised at what AT&T and Costco paid me last year just to keep a few bucks invested in their companies. Long term, this is going to ROCK!

What if, while We still have decent credit, We, The People borrowed some more cash from the Chinese and used it to invest in dividend paying American company stocks?

What if we tied congressional pay to the increases AND decreases in the value of the stock fund they'd be charged with managing over the course of time?

If we had alternate ways to pay for education, roads and space exploration, do you reckon our grandkids might have a shot at adequate government services AND the reasonable taxes we all dream of?

 

[froggy]

As individual people, the wisest thing to do in life is to save for and invest towards the future... I'm looking at my stock account and I'm pleasantly surprised at what AT&T and Costco paid me last year just to keep a few bucks invested in their companies. Long term, this is going to ROCK!

What if, while We still have decent credit, We, The People borrowed some more cash from the Chinese and used it to invest in dividend paying American company stocks?

What if we tied congressional pay to the increases AND decreases in the value of the stock fund they'd be charged with managing over the course of time?

If we had alternate ways to pay for education, roads and space exploration, do you reckon our grandkids might have a shot at adequate government services AND the reasonable taxes we all dream of?

Key word "Dream".

 

[editec]

People need to make a living wage before they can invest money, Avg Joe.

About half the US population does not make a living wage to save and invest with.

Do you HATE unions?

if so then expecting your boss class to increase people wages such that they can invest in their futures is sort of silly, don't you think?

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

 

[froggy]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

The real problem with that is people would blow it, or invest badly, then what would they do at retirement age, they just barely make do now.

 

[AVG-JOE]

People need to make a living wage before they can invest money, Avg Joe.

About half the US population does not make a living wage to save and invest with.

Do you HATE unions?

if so then expecting your boss class to increase people wages such that they can invest in their futures is sort of silly, don't you think?

Short answer: No.

Fuck the bosses and the unions they rode in on. I'm talking about collective ownership... Like the treasure We share known as The National Parks. We already own a good size chunk of GM and most of AIG. Both have paid good dividends and there's no reason not to expect positive earnings in the future. Why not keep the stock and see what happens?

Besides, it's just an idea, and a positive one at that... something sorely lacking in many discussions... If it can't be done, why not? Are we too stupid? Have we devolved into the lackluster assets and tools our corporate bosses need us to be in order to maintain the lifestyle they've become accustomed to? Is there no hope?

 

[AVG-JOE]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

The real problem with that is people would blow it, or invest badly, then what would they do at retirement age, they just barely make do now.

It can be a legal requirement just like SS is now.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

You are ignoring the employer match.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

I've done the numbers a million times here but if you want I'll do it again.

The average income in the US is about 45K

6.2% is withheld from your pay. Your employer matches

1.45% is withheld from your pay for Medicare. Your employer matches.

Total 15.3% of you income is taken by the government.

15% of 45K would be a monthly investment of 562.50.

Why you start at 30 I don't know. Moat people graduate from college at 22 so I'll start there.

Now a 22 yr old in my state can purchase a disability policy that will pay him 70% of his 45K a year through age 67 for 45 a month.

Do I even have to deduct that from the 562.50? I won't.

BTW this disability policy is way better than SS because it is predicated on you not being able to perform your current job not any job and partial benefits will be paid if you resume work but aren't making as much as before you got hurt.

So back to the 562.50 a month.

Over 45 years earning

5% you'd have $1,139,880.42

Which if you continued to earn 5% on would provide you a monthly income of over $6500 for 25 years.

So tell me which is better

 

[AVG-JOE]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

You are ignoring the employer match.

You are ass-u-me-ing that your employer would give you the money if they weren't required to put it into the system on your behalf... even if they did, a dollar for dollar match is still less than 12%, and only on earnings below $106,000. Still a far cry from 15% of total earnings.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

You are ignoring the employer match.

You are ass-u-me-ing that your employer would give you the money if they weren't required to put it into the system on your behalf... even if they did, a dollar for dollar match is still less than 12%, and only on earnings below $106,000. Still a far cry from 15% of total earnings.

it could be required by law as it is now.

It costs the employer nothing more than it does now so that is not really an issue.

What is the fixation with 106K?

I gave you an example of someone earning 45K retiring as a millionaire with over 5 times the income that SS would give them and better disability insurance.

Don't you think the guy making over 106K would do even better?

 

[Douger]

E
n
r
o
n

 

[Skull Pilot]

E
n
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o
n

All the more reason for people to control their own money.

 

[AVG-JOE]

What if we all controlled the 15% of our lifetime incomes that the government takes via SS?

Even at a modest return of 5-8% we would all retire as multi millionaires.

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

I've done the numbers a million times here but if you want I'll do it again.

The average income in the US is about 45K

6.2% is withheld from your pay. Your employer matches

1.45% is withheld from your pay for Medicare. Your employer matches.

Total 15.3% of you income is taken by the government.

15% of 45K would be a monthly investment of 562.50.

Why you start at 30 I don't know. Moat people graduate from college at 22 so I'll start there.

Now a 22 yr old in my state can purchase a disability policy that will pay him 70% of his 45K a year through age 67 for 45 a month.

Do I even have to deduct that from the 562.50? I won't.

BTW this disability policy is way better than SS because it is predicated on you not being able to perform your current job not any job and partial benefits will be paid if you resume work but aren't making as much as before you got hurt.

So back to the 562.50 a month.

Over 45 years earning

5% you'd have $1,139,880.42

Which if you continued to earn 5% on would provide you a monthly income of over $6500 for 25 years.

So tell me which is better

Medicare being something completely different from retirement and disability notwithstanding, your numbers look impressive except for a couple of questions.... What is the cost of the disability insurance in your example and what are the benefits? Are there any benefits for children and spouse? Does it pay your dependents in the event of your death?

The only other question that comes to my mind is: If it's as easy as you make it look, why aren't any of my friends looking forward to retiring as millionaires, considering most everyone I know is dumping at least 10% into a 401k style savings plan?

 

[boedicca]

As individual people, the wisest thing to do in life is to save for and invest towards the future... I'm looking at my stock account and I'm pleasantly surprised at what AT&T and Costco paid me last year just to keep a few bucks invested in their companies. Long term, this is going to ROCK!

What if, while We still have decent credit, We, The People borrowed some more cash from the Chinese and used it to invest in dividend paying American company stocks?

What if we tied congressional pay to the increases AND decreases in the value of the stock fund they'd be charged with managing over the course of time?

If we had alternate ways to pay for education, roads and space exploration, do you reckon our grandkids might have a shot at adequate government services AND the reasonable taxes we all dream of?

What a horrible idea.

Go into debt to the Chinese just to have the Federal Government take ownership stakes in companies - and then rig the legislative system to ensure that the GSE's win in the market place.

Sounds like Obamanomics, and it's pretty much sucked for the economy to date.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if you found yourself disabled at age 30? Social Security is an insurance program with a guaranteed pay-out at retirement. Besides, on MY last pay stub the FICA taxes were right at 5.8%. And don't forget that every dime you earn over $106,000 is subject to NOTHING in FICA taxes - Ask any investment professional how much you'd have to set aside out of every pay check to GUARANTEE a monthly pay-out of $1,200.00 for life starting at age 66. O.k., now add to that the cost of a disability pay-out of $1,000.00 per month starting at age 30...

Fact is, Social Security is CHEAP because it is a Public Program run for the participants and not the profit of a few.

I've done the numbers a million times here but if you want I'll do it again.

The average income in the US is about 45K

6.2% is withheld from your pay. Your employer matches

1.45% is withheld from your pay for Medicare. Your employer matches.

Total 15.3% of you income is taken by the government.

15% of 45K would be a monthly investment of 562.50.

Why you start at 30 I don't know. Moat people graduate from college at 22 so I'll start there.

Now a 22 yr old in my state can purchase a disability policy that will pay him 70% of his 45K a year through age 67 for 45 a month.

Do I even have to deduct that from the 562.50? I won't.

BTW this disability policy is way better than SS because it is predicated on you not being able to perform your current job not any job and partial benefits will be paid if you resume work but aren't making as much as before you got hurt.

So back to the 562.50 a month.

Over 45 years earning

5% you'd have $1,139,880.42

Which if you continued to earn 5% on would provide you a monthly income of over $6500 for 25 years.

So tell me which is better

Medicare being something completely different from retirement and disability notwithstanding, your numbers look impressive except for a couple of questions.... What is the cost of the disability insurance in your example and what are the benefits? Are there any benefits for children and spouse? Does it pay your dependents in the event of your death?

The only other question that comes to my mind is: If it's as easy as you make it look, why aren't any of my friends looking forward to retiring as millionaires, considering most everyone I know is dumping at least 10% into a 401k style savings plan?

I told you the cost of the Disability policy was 45 a month guaranteed to age 67. And disability doesn't pay death benefits that's what life insurance is for. Anyone with a wife and kids who doesn't have life insurance is irresponsible.

The trick to buying life insurance is to view it as income insurance. The purpose being to replace the income the family loses if you die. So in our example replacing 45K a year for however many years you think you might need it, usually you would plan on replacing your income until you would have been 65. But that's another discussion

If they're putting 10% of their income away as you say, then imagine what they could save if they added that extra 15%.

Most financial advisers will tell you that you should be putting at least 20% of your gross income into retirement savings not including SS.

The point I am trying to make that it is simple to get a 5-8% return over a lifetime. Almost any balanced portfolio will do it even with the ups and downs of the market.

The most important thing is consistent savings over time.

Dollar Cost Averaging