What if?

[uscitizen]

They both have their religions. So I take it you're a member of the Blue Team?

I belong to no team. I am a team of one.
Although I do agree with some of their concepts and I also agree with many concepts of true fiscal conservatism.

I realized during the Reagan years that conservatism was a faith based religion. Thie has been reinforced over the years.
Keep trying tax cuts have faith that they will work this time...

That's good to hear. So did Obama get your vote in 2008?

Yes with regrets. I could not support more of the same, but we of course get it anyway.
Lobbyists now control our gummit.
they pretty much own both parties.

 

[xsited1]

I belong to no team. I am a team of one.
Although I do agree with some of their concepts and I also agree with many concepts of true fiscal conservatism.

I realized during the Reagan years that conservatism was a faith based religion. Thie has been reinforced over the years.
Keep trying tax cuts have faith that they will work this time...

That's good to hear. So did Obama get your vote in 2008?

Yes with regrets. I could not support more of the same, but we of course get it anyway.
Lobbyists now control our gummit.
they pretty much own both parties.

That's a shame. Until people see that voting for either the Red Team or, in your case, the Blue Team is just a wasted vote, nothing will change.

 

[uscitizen]

That's good to hear. So did Obama get your vote in 2008?

Yes with regrets. I could not support more of the same, but we of course get it anyway.
Lobbyists now control our gummit.
they pretty much own both parties.

That's a shame. Until people see that voting for either the Red Team or, in your case, the Blue Team is just a wasted vote, nothing will change.

And one for Ron Paul is not wasted? I had to vote against what I considered the larger evil and threat to America.

I did vote for Ross way back when.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

What "truths" are you referring to? Most of what they spout is a righty talking point or propaganda devised to scare gullible people. You have to be specific about the "truths", as they say some truly out-there shite...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I'm not a huge Ann Coulter fan, but I agree with most of what she said here:

Coulter argues that liberalism rejects the idea of God and reviles people of faith, yet bears all the attributes of a religion itself.[2] Coulter argues that the tenets of the liberal "church" are:

Creation myths (theory of evolution)
Sacraments - Coulter compares abortion to "virgin sacrifice"[3]
Holy Writ (Roe v. Wade)
Martyrs (from Alger Hiss to Mumia Abu Jamal)
Clergy (public school teachers)
Churches (government schools, where prayer is prohibited but condoms are free)
Doctrine of infallibility (as manifest in the "absolute moral authority" of spokespeople from Cindy Sheehan to Max Cleland)
Cosmology (Big Bang, in which mankind is an inconsequential accident)

Godless: The Church of Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1)Observed fact =/= Myth, dumbass

2)Evolution does not address the emergence of the first replicators, you idiot.

3)'Coulter compares abortion to "virgin sacrifice"' I wonder how she feels about her God sacrificing those lives which fail to implant in the uterine wall and the fact that her religion teaches virgin sacrifice

4)'holy writ'? You mean believing in a nation of law? Does she then believe we should throw aside the Constitution?

5)Martyrs? I wonder about her perspective on our fallen soldiers who have foughjt for our nation and its principles, both past and present.

6) Clergy? Since when are teachers said to have a direct line to God?

7)She's attacking 'Teh Evil Leftist Communist SDatan Worshipers' for wanting to understand the universe?




And you agree with this moronic woman?






You people expect to be taken seriously?

 

[MaggieMae]

Regardless of what you think of these people, let's take a look at the other side of the coin and imagine... Now, what if Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity and others like them were telling us the absolute truth? How would you react if you suddenly found out that every word they have been saying was the pure truth? Think about that for a couple of minutes... How would you react or feel?

What if you found out that the reason mainstream media is "liberal" is because they speak the truth against all the suppositions and innuendo spewed by that crowd? Do Beck, et al., have proof for more than half the shit they talk about? They are opinionators, period. (I think I just made up a new word.)

 

[MaggieMae]

Regardless of what you think of these people, let's take a look at the other side of the coin and imagine... Now, what if Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity and others like them were telling us the absolute truth? How would you react if you suddenly found out that every word they have been saying was the pure truth? Think about that for a couple of minutes... How would you react or feel?

I already feel that way...

But I don't believe the average lefty can ever feel more pissed than they do already.

But it really is a healthy exercise to try and see things from the other perspective. And sometimes you learn a thing or three whey you try it out.

I must admit the right wing noise machine gets the job done. Just look at the dramatic variance in the opinions on health care in this country once the BIG MOUTHS took over and warped the minds of people unable to wrap their brains around a major problem.

Healthcare System

 

[Murf76]

We have become a nation divided against itself.

Yeah. But who was it that divided us???

When I'm confused about who's who and what's what... I often find it helpful to take a look at who is GAINING what from whatever subject at hand.

In this case, the only people who are gaining any serious money or prestige are politicians and big businessmen. And they get all that money from you and me and our fellow citizens.

Politicians typically only have ONE real talent. And that is getting into office and staying there. They aren't qualified to run auto companies, doctor's offices, or banks. But if they can control these things, they can raise the capital and support they need to hold their office. They can bring the businessman to heel, demanding his support in exchange for favor by being in a position to decide who the winners and losers will be.

But this is a double-edged sword. The corporate influence must be big and powerful in order to be of service to the politician, but let it get TOO big and powerful, and it will be his master and not the other way around.

And that's where we are. Some politicians running the corporate boss. And some corporate bosses running the politician. Corporatism.
(Bear in mind, that not all "corporations" are for-profit businesses. SEIU is as much a corporation, by definition, as GE is.)

So, when we ask ourselves... who keeps the shit stirred up? Who keeps us at each other's throats? The obvious answer is... the people who stand the most to gain from it.

It serves politicians and corporations to have us divided. It keeps us from noticing that the ones who NEED to be divided... are THEM. Republicans v. Democrats. The Red Team v. The Blue Team. These are red herrings which keep us from banding together and stopping the unethical flow of money between the politician and the special interest.

If we have to deal with an Us v. Them scenario, and we do... the first thing we have to determine is who is "us" and who is "them". It's not who we think it is. Because when you look at who pays and who plays... it's pretty easy to see that "them" is Government and Business engaged in Corporatism vs. All the Rest of Us.

YOU will end up in the same boat with ME, even though we might disagree on the merits of Collectivism as opposed to Individualism. We'll still meet the same fate. Our children will face the same gargantuan national debt.

The only protection we have is in the original contract that 'We the People' made with government. All government is essentially FORCE, and we are fully dependent upon the U.S. Constitution to protect us from its abuse. This is where our power resides. And they all KNOW it. That's why you only see them address the Constitution when their backs are to the wall. Republicans had nothing to say about The Patriot Act. Democrats invoked "The Constitution". But then... had NOTHING to say about the unconstitutional provisions of Obamacare. And now, it's only been the last few weeks, with their backs against the wall, that we see Republicans mention "The Constitution".

Of course, I'm not saying that every politician is a bad person. They're not. But they live in a swamp of corruption that most will not overcome or resist. The newly minted Congressman will sometimes arrive wide-eyed and full of patriotic vigor in Washington, and before you can say "jack sprat" he's up to his ears in partisan muck. The only way to stop that dynamic is to stop the flow of money and prestige.

We have a First Amendment right to lobby our government, that's true. And corporations have the right to lobby as well. What they DON'T have a Constitutional right to do is pass money back and forth. THAT is the line in the sand that we have to draw. And we can't do it with the corrupt bunch we have now. We need those "newly minted" representatives, the ones who haven't become jaded yet. The career politician will NOT limit his own power, not voluntarily.

Democrats are looking at a really bad election cycle in 2010. They've fucked up damn near everything they could fuck up. But... we'd do well to bring that bad luck to any and every incumbent who hasn't displayed nearly god-like self control and ethics, every one who hasn't had the U.S. Constitution on his/her lips every day since they walked up the steps at Capital Hill.

In a thread about talk radio hosts... I'm reminded of something I heard from Glenn Beck last night. Now, don't get me wrong, the guy can (and does) go over the top sometimes, and like every other pundit out there, he makes his living off our interest in politics. But when he's right, he's right.... and last night he reminded us that we HAVE to make a choice. We can't have both Madison and Marx. They can't coexist in practical application.

Consider for example, the national discussion on healthcare and the general welfare clause. Madison tells us:

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
-James Madison

"Limited Government." That's what we're guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution. But under a Marxist system, which in practice isn't the same as the Marxist philosophy, power comes from the top down, not the bottom up.

This is the promise that Obama made but CANNOT keep as he expands the power and influence of central government. He told us during the campaign that he would empower the bottom. But that can only be done by a contraction of the power and influence of central government. If you think about it... your vote, your power, is at its best potency at the local level. It's less diluted when its utilized in the smallest environment. That's the crux of representative government... that the power rises from the people, from the bottom up.

When these eggheads are ignoring the people they represent, placing the party ahead of the people, placing the special interest ahead of the people, they MUST divide us into blocs in order to harvest our votes every two, four, and six years. They have to bind us together by presenting a common foe in the form of some arbitrary issue, offering it as a dragon that only they can slay.

The whole thing is an absolute farce. We end up focusing on Rush Limbaugh and abortion... while these guys are cleaning us out and REMOVING the only protection against tyranny we possess.

We have GOT to put aside the petty partisanship and get behind the Constitution if we're going to keep ourselves in power. There's nothing else for it. Otherwise, we will ALWAYS be at the mercy of Corporatist Government. We have to start electing candidates who will stand on the meaning as well as the spirit of our contractual agreement with government.

 

[MaggieMae]

No use in me even wasting my time Imagining this fairy tail of "Rush telling nothing but the truth".

Ironically, Rush Limbaugh states the conservative view accurately much of the time. It's Glenn Beck and others like Michelle Malkin who take it to the limit and just make up shit as they go along. Beck should be hung. Michelle Malkin has surpassed even Ann Coulter by her absurd accusations.

 

[MaggieMae]

Regardless of what you think of these people, let's take a look at the other side of the coin and imagine... Now, what if Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity and others like them were telling us the absolute truth? How would you react if you suddenly found out that every word they have been saying was the pure truth? Think about that for a couple of minutes... How would you react or feel?

those types will never tell the full truth.


Just a pipe dream.

Also since their "truths" differ so greatly it is impossible that they are all telling the truth.

But what if they were telling the truth and laying out the real facts. Just for the sake of conversation, what would you say then?

It would have to be lots 'n lots of inyourface provable facts to be credible. They have sunk so far down into the toilet, who's going to believe those POS rising to the top might just be tasty after all?

 

[uscitizen]

We have become a nation divided against itself.

Yeah. But who was it that divided us???

When I'm confused about who's who and what's what... I often find it helpful to take a look at who is GAINING what from whatever subject at hand.

In this case, the only people who are gaining any serious money or prestige are politicians and big businessmen. And they get all that money from you and me and our fellow citizens.

Politicians typically only have ONE real talent. And that is getting into office and staying there. They aren't qualified to run auto companies, doctor's offices, or banks. But if they can control these things, they can raise the capital and support they need to hold their office. They can bring the businessman to heel, demanding his support in exchange for favor by being in a position to decide who the winners and losers will be.

But this is a double-edged sword. The corporate influence must be big and powerful in order to be of service to the politician, but let it get TOO big and powerful, and it will be his master and not the other way around.

And that's where we are. Some politicians running the corporate boss. And some corporate bosses running the politician. Corporatism.
(Bear in mind, that not all "corporations" are for-profit businesses. SEIU is as much a corporation, by definition, as GE is.)

So, when we ask ourselves... who keeps the shit stirred up? Who keeps us at each other's throats? The obvious answer is... the people who stand the most to gain from it.

It serves politicians and corporations to have us divided. It keeps us from noticing that the ones who NEED to be divided... are THEM. Republicans v. Democrats. The Red Team v. The Blue Team. These are red herrings which keep us from banding together and stopping the unethical flow of money between the politician and the special interest.

If we have to deal with an Us v. Them scenario, and we do... the first thing we have to determine is who is "us" and who is "them". It's not who we think it is. Because when you look at who pays and who plays... it's pretty easy to see that "them" is Government and Business engaged in Corporatism vs. All the Rest of Us.

YOU will end up in the same boat with ME, even though we might disagree on the merits of Collectivism as opposed to Individualism. We'll still meet the same fate. Our children will face the same gargantuan national debt.

The only protection we have is in the original contract that 'We the People' made with government. All government is essentially FORCE, and we are fully dependent upon the U.S. Constitution to protect us from its abuse. This is where our power resides. And they all KNOW it. That's why you only see them address the Constitution when their backs are to the wall. Republicans had nothing to say about The Patriot Act. Democrats invoked "The Constitution". But then... had NOTHING to say about the unconstitutional provisions of Obamacare. And now, it's only been the last few weeks, with their backs against the wall, that we see Republicans mention "The Constitution".

Of course, I'm not saying that every politician is a bad person. They're not. But they live in a swamp of corruption that most will not overcome or resist. The newly minted Congressman will sometimes arrive wide-eyed and full of patriotic vigor in Washington, and before you can say "jack sprat" he's up to his ears in partisan muck. The only way to stop that dynamic is to stop the flow of money and prestige.

We have a First Amendment right to lobby our government, that's true. And corporations have the right to lobby as well. What they DON'T have a Constitutional right to do is pass money back and forth. THAT is the line in the sand that we have to draw. And we can't do it with the corrupt bunch we have now. We need those "newly minted" representatives, the ones who haven't become jaded yet. The career politician will NOT limit his own power, not voluntarily.

Democrats are looking at a really bad election cycle in 2010. They've fucked up damn near everything they could fuck up. But... we'd do well to bring that bad luck to any and every incumbent who hasn't displayed nearly god-like self control and ethics, every one who hasn't had the U.S. Constitution on his/her lips every day since they walked up the steps at Capital Hill.

In a thread about talk radio hosts... I'm reminded of something I heard from Glenn Beck last night. Now, don't get me wrong, the guy can (and does) go over the top sometimes, and like every other pundit out there, he makes his living off our interest in politics. But when he's right, he's right.... and last night he reminded us that we HAVE to make a choice. We can't have both Madison and Marx. They can't coexist in practical application.

Consider for example, the national discussion on healthcare and the general welfare clause. Madison tells us:

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
-James Madison

"Limited Government." That's what we're guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution. But under a Marxist system, which in practice isn't the same as the Marxist philosophy, power comes from the top down, not the bottom up.

This is the promise that Obama made but CANNOT keep as he expands the power and influence of central government. He told us during the campaign that he would empower the bottom. But that can only be done by a contraction of the power and influence of central government. If you think about it... your vote, your power, is at its best potency at the local level. It's less diluted when its utilized in the smallest environment. That's the crux of representative government... that the power rises from the people, from the bottom up.

When these eggheads are ignoring the people they represent, placing the party ahead of the people, placing the special interest ahead of the people, they MUST divide us into blocs in order to harvest our votes every two, four, and six years. They have to bind us together by presenting a common foe in the form of some arbitrary issue, offering it as a dragon that only they can slay.

The whole thing is an absolute farce. We end up focusing on Rush Limbaugh and abortion... while these guys are cleaning us out and REMOVING the only protection against tyranny we possess.

We have GOT to put aside the petty partisanship and get behind the Constitution if we're going to keep ourselves in power. There's nothing else for it. Otherwise, we will ALWAYS be at the mercy of Corporatist Government. We have to start electing candidates who will stand on the meaning as well as the spirit of our contractual agreement with government.

A very good and thoughtful post.

All governments throught time have been authoritian and power from the top organized. It is human nautre and always will be.

 

[noose4]

Regardless of what you think of these people, let's take a look at the other side of the coin and imagine... Now, what if Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity and others like them were telling us the absolute truth? How would you react if you suddenly found out that every word they have been saying was the pure truth? Think about that for a couple of minutes... How would you react or feel?

Probably the same way you would if it was found that Olbermann, Maddow, etc were 100% correct.

 

[Zoom-boing]

We have become a nation divided against itself.

Yeah. But who was it that divided us???

When I'm confused about who's who and what's what... I often find it helpful to take a look at who is GAINING what from whatever subject at hand.

In this case, the only people who are gaining any serious money or prestige are politicians and big businessmen. And they get all that money from you and me and our fellow citizens.

Politicians typically only have ONE real talent. And that is getting into office and staying there. They aren't qualified to run auto companies, doctor's offices, or banks. But if they can control these things, they can raise the capital and support they need to hold their office. They can bring the businessman to heel, demanding his support in exchange for favor by being in a position to decide who the winners and losers will be.

But this is a double-edged sword. The corporate influence must be big and powerful in order to be of service to the politician, but let it get TOO big and powerful, and it will be his master and not the other way around.

And that's where we are. Some politicians running the corporate boss. And some corporate bosses running the politician. Corporatism.
(Bear in mind, that not all "corporations" are for-profit businesses. SEIU is as much a corporation, by definition, as GE is.)

So, when we ask ourselves... who keeps the shit stirred up? Who keeps us at each other's throats? The obvious answer is... the people who stand the most to gain from it.

It serves politicians and corporations to have us divided. It keeps us from noticing that the ones who NEED to be divided... are THEM. Republicans v. Democrats. The Red Team v. The Blue Team. These are red herrings which keep us from banding together and stopping the unethical flow of money between the politician and the special interest.

If we have to deal with an Us v. Them scenario, and we do... the first thing we have to determine is who is "us" and who is "them". It's not who we think it is. Because when you look at who pays and who plays... it's pretty easy to see that "them" is Government and Business engaged in Corporatism vs. All the Rest of Us.

YOU will end up in the same boat with ME, even though we might disagree on the merits of Collectivism as opposed to Individualism. We'll still meet the same fate. Our children will face the same gargantuan national debt.

The only protection we have is in the original contract that 'We the People' made with government. All government is essentially FORCE, and we are fully dependent upon the U.S. Constitution to protect us from its abuse. This is where our power resides. And they all KNOW it. That's why you only see them address the Constitution when their backs are to the wall. Republicans had nothing to say about The Patriot Act. Democrats invoked "The Constitution". But then... had NOTHING to say about the unconstitutional provisions of Obamacare. And now, it's only been the last few weeks, with their backs against the wall, that we see Republicans mention "The Constitution".

Of course, I'm not saying that every politician is a bad person. They're not. But they live in a swamp of corruption that most will not overcome or resist. The newly minted Congressman will sometimes arrive wide-eyed and full of patriotic vigor in Washington, and before you can say "jack sprat" he's up to his ears in partisan muck. The only way to stop that dynamic is to stop the flow of money and prestige.

We have a First Amendment right to lobby our government, that's true. And corporations have the right to lobby as well. What they DON'T have a Constitutional right to do is pass money back and forth. THAT is the line in the sand that we have to draw. And we can't do it with the corrupt bunch we have now. We need those "newly minted" representatives, the ones who haven't become jaded yet. The career politician will NOT limit his own power, not voluntarily.

Democrats are looking at a really bad election cycle in 2010. They've fucked up damn near everything they could fuck up. But... we'd do well to bring that bad luck to any and every incumbent who hasn't displayed nearly god-like self control and ethics, every one who hasn't had the U.S. Constitution on his/her lips every day since they walked up the steps at Capital Hill.

In a thread about talk radio hosts... I'm reminded of something I heard from Glenn Beck last night. Now, don't get me wrong, the guy can (and does) go over the top sometimes, and like every other pundit out there, he makes his living off our interest in politics. But when he's right, he's right.... and last night he reminded us that we HAVE to make a choice. We can't have both Madison and Marx. They can't coexist in practical application.

Consider for example, the national discussion on healthcare and the general welfare clause. Madison tells us:

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
-James Madison

"Limited Government." That's what we're guaranteed by our U.S. Constitution. But under a Marxist system, which in practice isn't the same as the Marxist philosophy, power comes from the top down, not the bottom up.

This is the promise that Obama made but CANNOT keep as he expands the power and influence of central government. He told us during the campaign that he would empower the bottom. But that can only be done by a contraction of the power and influence of central government. If you think about it... your vote, your power, is at its best potency at the local level. It's less diluted when its utilized in the smallest environment. That's the crux of representative government... that the power rises from the people, from the bottom up.

When these eggheads are ignoring the people they represent, placing the party ahead of the people, placing the special interest ahead of the people, they MUST divide us into blocs in order to harvest our votes every two, four, and six years. They have to bind us together by presenting a common foe in the form of some arbitrary issue, offering it as a dragon that only they can slay.

The whole thing is an absolute farce. We end up focusing on Rush Limbaugh and abortion... while these guys are cleaning us out and REMOVING the only protection against tyranny we possess.

We have GOT to put aside the petty partisanship and get behind the Constitution if we're going to keep ourselves in power. There's nothing else for it. Otherwise, we will ALWAYS be at the mercy of Corporatist Government. We have to start electing candidates who will stand on the meaning as well as the spirit of our contractual agreement with government.

 

[MaggieMae]

Regardless of what you think of these people, let's take a look at the other side of the coin and imagine... Now, what if Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Rielly, Sean Hannity and others like them were telling us the absolute truth? How would you react if you suddenly found out that every word they have been saying was the pure truth? Think about that for a couple of minutes... How would you react or feel?

those types will never tell the full truth.


Just a pipe dream.

Also since their "truths" differ so greatly it is impossible that they are all telling the truth.

He is not asking you to believe them, the question is, what would your attitude be if you did believe them.

Actually, I think the emotions of many lefties are the same way. There is a large amount of angst on both sides where people feel the government has sold the citizens down down the river to the special interests, that the opposition party is out to bankrupt the nation for the benefit of a few well connected rich guys. That is why you see so much profanity and short temper in the political realm these days. Elections are just a matter of cash and politicians are just out there to milk and bilk the public. There is no longer any real feeling that the other side might be honest but misguided. It has become the powers vs the nation, and the nation is loosing

That's true, but wouldn't a good start be to stop blaming each other and especially using extreme hypotheses as justification? I'm thinking of the multitude of comments that Bush must be stupid because he mangled his words, or that Obama must be stupid because he uses a teleprompter, and therefore neither is worthy of the job, period. It's time people of all political persuasions stop forming their general opinions around such irrelevant nonsense and actually study what the problems of this nation are and offer up some solid solutions, which also can no longer be based merely on historic ideologies but based in reality.

 

[uscitizen]

those types will never tell the full truth.


Just a pipe dream.

Also since their "truths" differ so greatly it is impossible that they are all telling the truth.

He is not asking you to believe them, the question is, what would your attitude be if you did believe them.

Actually, I think the emotions of many lefties are the same way. There is a large amount of angst on both sides where people feel the government has sold the citizens down down the river to the special interests, that the opposition party is out to bankrupt the nation for the benefit of a few well connected rich guys. That is why you see so much profanity and short temper in the political realm these days. Elections are just a matter of cash and politicians are just out there to milk and bilk the public. There is no longer any real feeling that the other side might be honest but misguided. It has become the powers vs the nation, and the nation is loosing

That's true, but wouldn't a good start be to stop blaming each other and especially using extreme hypotheses as justification? I'm thinking of the multitude of comments that Bush must be stupid because he mangled his words, or that Obama must be stupid because he uses a teleprompter, and therefore neither is worthy of the job, period. It's time people of all political persuasions stop forming their general opinions around such irrelevant nonsense and actually study what the problems of this nation are and offer up some solid solutions, which also can no longer be based merely on historic ideologies but based in reality.

Ohh I fully agree, however we are programmed otherwise.

 

[MaggieMae]

those types will never tell the full truth.


Just a pipe dream.

Also since their "truths" differ so greatly it is impossible that they are all telling the truth.

He is not asking you to believe them, the question is, what would your attitude be if you did believe them.

Actually, I think the emotions of many lefties are the same way. There is a large amount of angst on both sides where people feel the government has sold the citizens down down the river to the special interests, that the opposition party is out to bankrupt the nation for the benefit of a few well connected rich guys. That is why you see so much profanity and short temper in the political realm these days. Elections are just a matter of cash and politicians are just out there to milk and bilk the public. There is no longer any real feeling that the other side might be honest but misguided. It has become the powers vs the nation, and the nation is loosing

You are correct in your assumption that I would like everybody to just take a deep breath, and look deeper into the forest.

I believe that both of the major political parties in this country have become corrupted to the point that neither of them can function in an honest way. An example of this is the payoff to both Nebraska and Lousiana to get on the Health Care Reform bandwagon. In honest politics, people don't need to be, and shouldn't be bought. Both political parties have become so intrenched into partisian politics that they can't even work together for the common good of the average citizen. Members of the House and Senate have been in Congress for so long that they have become political powers within their own selves and must be reconded with in order to get anything passed through Congress. Our political system, the system that America was built on, is failing. We are on a straight course into socialism and seem to be picking up speed every day. We need to do something to change this course of action but everybody is so eager to fight for "their side", meaning Democrat verses Republican, on every issue that the common man is loosing out and America is failing as each political party fights for control of their party - not control of the nation. We need some serious help in this country. We are spending out of control. Our debt gets worse everytime Congress goes into session. Nothing is being solved in terms of our National Debt. It is only growing. Congress does nothing but constantly spend money. it needs to stop. That won't happen because the power from each political party comes from the money they spend. We are doomed.

Your problem is that you start out with excellent analysis, and then launch into a rant that it's all the Democrats' fault (i.e., it's the Dems who are spending us toward Socialism, which is not true). So YOU need to turn your OWN thought process into a more, er, fair and balanced analysis. Do some recent homework. The Republicans have been spending and creating huge deficits for three decades, so stop blaming just the Democrats.

 

[Murf76]

All governments throught time have been authoritian and power from the top organized. It is human nautre and always will be.

But that's the beauty of our Constitution though. It was designed around Natural Law and Human Nature. It was designed to harness the best parts of what makes us human and to thwart the injurious parts of our nature. Thus, American Exceptionalism... the "exception" to the authoritarian power we've observed throughout history.

This IS our birthright as Americans. That is, if we don't throw it away for the sake of expediency in addressing modern issues.

It doesn't matter if a candidate has an 'R' or a 'D' behind his name.... as long as he understands and honors what the Constitution really means. THIS is our common ground.

 

[uscitizen]

All governments throught time have been authoritian and power from the top organized. It is human nautre and always will be.

But that's the beauty of our Constitution though. It was designed around Natural Law and Human Nature. It was designed to harness the best parts of what makes us human and to thwart the injurious parts of our nature. Thus, American Exceptionalism... the "exception" to the authoritarian power we've observed throughout history.

This IS our birthright as Americans. That is, if we don't throw it away for the sake of expediency in addressing modern issues.

It doesn't matter if a candidate has an 'R' or a 'D' behind his name.... as long as he understands and honors what the Constitution really means. THIS is our common ground.

Nice ideology, but I doubt that it will fly.
Our candidates are bought and paid for before they even get into office.

 

[Modbert]

I already feel that way...

Well, that's certainly explains a couple things. I wonder how you all would feel if suddenly Obama was right about everything. Other than heads likely exploding.

 

[Modbert]

But what if they were telling the truth and laying out the real facts. Just for the sake of conversation, what would you say then?

What exactly are you trying to justify with this "what if" situation?