What if there was a "cure"? Part 2

[alan1]

Prostrate? Is that the kind you get when you're lying down?

Yes.

 

[Red Dawn]

Scientists have been searching for the gay gene for years. It has yet to be found, but the hope, of course, is that if they find it homosexuals will be able to say "see, I was born this way!" Fair enough. However, homosexuality may also have environmental component. For example, more homosexuals have endured sexual abuse as a child than heterosexuals. (Just google search this if you want to read the various papers available, although keep in mind that much of this research is considered 'taboo' by the PC establishment.) And recent research seems to point to an enzyme in the hypothalamic region of the brain at much higher levels for homosexuals (as I mentioned in your other thread). So if one wishes to avoid homosexual tendencies, it may be possible in the future for a doctor to prescribe a drug to adjust the brain chemistry to that of a heterosexual. And if there is an environmental component, mental health therapy may be effective.

The propensity to be homosexual rises in direct correlation to the number of older brothers one has,

Scientists in Canada have discovered that the probability of a man being gay rises significantly according to the number of elder brothers he has, when these brothers are born of the same mother.

Link for Ravi, Younger brothers more likely to be born gay - Times Online
that seems to indicate that it is more nurture than nature.

I remember when that study came out. I sent it to a few friends and coworkers just as an FYI. I got a response from a guy (who, btw, is named 'Bruce') who angrily asked me HOW MANY BROTHERS DO I HAVE! I don't have any, but I found out he had 4 older brothers. I didn't know so of course I apologized. (I didn't tell him that it wouldn't matter to me if he were gay or not, but I decided to leave that one alone.)

You monitor the scientific literature for gay studies, and send them to coworkers and friends??

What is the deal with this obsession with gay sex that you, Burp, Charlie Bass and Pole Rider have? For real man, I hardly ever think about gay sex, and mostly its just when I’m on this board because so many rightwingers are fascinated by the topic.

So honestly man, what exactly is it that drives you, Burp, Charlie Bass and other rightwingers to spend so much time reading about gay sex, and looking for and posting pictures of naked men?

 

[xsited1]

The propensity to be homosexual rises in direct correlation to the number of older brothers one has,

Link for Ravi, Younger brothers more likely to be born gay - Times Online
that seems to indicate that it is more nurture than nature.

I remember when that study came out. I sent it to a few friends and coworkers just as an FYI. I got a response from a guy (who, btw, is named 'Bruce') who angrily asked me HOW MANY BROTHERS DO I HAVE! I don't have any, but I found out he had 4 older brothers. I didn't know so of course I apologized. (I didn't tell him that it wouldn't matter to me if he were gay or not, but I decided to leave that one alone.)

You monitor the scientific literature for gay studies, and send them to coworkers and friends??

... nonsensical junk removed ...

That was front-page news.

 

[xsited1]

I remember when that study came out. I sent it to a few friends and coworkers just as an FYI. I got a response from a guy (who, btw, is named 'Bruce') who angrily asked me HOW MANY BROTHERS DO I HAVE! I don't have any, but I found out he had 4 older brothers. I didn't know so of course I apologized. (I didn't tell him that it wouldn't matter to me if he were gay or not, but I decided to leave that one alone.)

You monitor the scientific literature for gay studies, and send them to coworkers and friends??

... nonsensical junk removed ...

That was front-page news.

Okay. I've got more time now.

I didn't really become interested in 'gay studies' until I met my wife. She had lots of gay friends, so I got to learn more about them and their lifestyle. Being scientifically-minded, I wanted to know how someone became gay. That's when I started reading the scientific literature. The gay sheep experiment was ground-breaking. I've also read lots of studies that looked at a possible correlation between people who were abused as a child and later became homosexuals. It's fascinating.

 

[Neser Boha]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

 

[alan1]

You monitor the scientific literature for gay studies, and send them to coworkers and friends??

What is the deal with this obsession with gay sex that you, Burp, Charlie Bass and Pole Rider have? For real man, I hardly ever think about gay sex, and mostly its just when I’m on this board because so many rightwingers are fascinated by the topic.

So honestly man, what exactly is it that drives you, Burp, Charlie Bass and other rightwingers to spend so much time reading about gay sex, and looking for and posting pictures of naked men?

Lies are unbecoming.
Seriously Red Dawn, why do you feel the need to make false accusatory statements when people are having a serious discussion? Would it be fair of me to accuse you of being drunk just because I didn't appreciate your post? Or is that only fair after one calls somebody a "rightwinger"? Because obviously, labeling somebody with a political affiliation makes it acceptable to then insult them on some other basis.

 

[JohnStOnge]

Your personal experience is not a scientific study.
If none of your five brothers has prostrate cancer does that mean that prostrate cancer doesn't exist?

According to the textbook I had for my graduate level Experimental Statistics I and II courses, what's described by the article isn't a "scientific" study either. It's an "observational" study. But, that aside, establishing that it's not completely a "choice" does not establish that it is not a disorder. In fact, if they are correct, there may be hints as to how to prevent it from occurring.

 

[xsited1]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

Hold on there! I support gay rights just as much as the most liberal person on this board, but in reality we don't know that "it doesn't hurt anyone." The jury is still out on this.

 

[xotoxi]

What if there were a medical solution for homosexuality? This could take many forms. Maybe it could cure an adult, or maybe it could be done pre-natally. Maybe it would only a short term fix and required ongoing therapy to make "stick". In any case what I'm talking about would be voluntary for an adult or at the discretion of a parent for a child.

So... would you be in favor of any or all of these methods and why or why not?

Discuss.

Assuming that there was a prenatal test to determine that your fetus was homosexual, the treatment for this already exists.

Take mifepristone 600 mg orally followed 48 hours later by misoprostol 400 mcg orally.

No more gay fetus.

 

[alan1]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

Hold on there! I support gay rights just as much as the most liberal person on this board, but in reality we don't know that "it doesn't hurt anyone." The jury is still out on this.

Define "gay rights".
Do they have some sort of special rights simply because of their sexual orientation?

 

[Neser Boha]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

Hold on there! I support gay rights just as much as the most liberal person on this board, but in reality we don't know that "it doesn't hurt anyone." The jury is still out on this.

All we know is that repressed homosexuality (or repressed sexuality in general) hurts... The jury might be out for you, but it certainly isn't for me or any single friend of mine. I have known enough homosexual men and women and can't come up with any way how could their sexuality negatively influence anyone else or the society in general.

You say you support their rights yet you're extremely preoccupied with finding out origin of homosexuality and even uttering such statements as 'jury is still out' on whether their sexuality hurts anyone... A bit of a contradiction there... in my mind's eye...

Anywho... in case someone would come up with a way or two in which homosexuality and homosexuals 'hurt anyone' or society... What would society do about it? Make it illegal?

What the FUCK ever.

It's the same shit like people trying to find out which race is 'superior' and in what ways to others... totally stupid, counter-productive and regressive.

 

[Amanda]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

I think you're missing the point. Some homosexuals have said that if they had a choice they wouldn't choose to be gay. They have expressed dissatisfaction. Would you deny them the chance to change that and be happier? I wouldn't.

This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is bad for society, it's about individual happiness.

 

[jillian]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

I think you're missing the point. Some homosexuals have said that if they had a choice they wouldn't choose to be gay. They have expressed dissatisfaction. Would you deny them the chance to change that and be happier? I wouldn't.

This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is bad for society, it's about individual happiness.

didn't you get an answer to this after 800 or so posts?

perhaps they wouldn't care about being gay if rude and bigoted people didn't feel free to question their sexuality or try to marginalize them.... or their churches didn't call them abominations.

closets aren't good places to live.

do you want to be marginalized for *your* sexuality?

 

[Amanda]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

I think you're missing the point. Some homosexuals have said that if they had a choice they wouldn't choose to be gay. They have expressed dissatisfaction. Would you deny them the chance to change that and be happier? I wouldn't.

This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is bad for society, it's about individual happiness.

didn't you get an answer to this after 800 or so posts?

perhaps they wouldn't care about being gay if rude and bigoted people didn't feel free to question their sexuality or try to marginalize them.... or their churches didn't call them abominations.

closets aren't good places to live.

do you want to be marginalized for *your* sexuality?

No, I didn't feel like the discussion had run it's course yet. I guess not everyone agreed. But Gunny didn't seem to have a problem with it so I started it again.

Perhaps, but the world is still a harder place for homosexuals so I think that if there were a way to make life easier for them they should have access to it. I don't think people should have to suffer.

The last part made me laugh. You don't think I haven't caught my fair share of shit for being who I am? Not everyone is the same, some people can't take adversity, some can. If I were gay I would probably do the pride parades (tho not mostly naked) because I'm perfectly willing to take abuse for what I believe in. If nothing else in my life I feel like I've proven (at least to myself) I can take a beating for my principles.

 

[xsited1]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

Hold on there! I support gay rights just as much as the most liberal person on this board, but in reality we don't know that "it doesn't hurt anyone." The jury is still out on this.

Define "gay rights".
Do they have some sort of special rights simply because of their sexual orientation?

I'm referring to State recognized rights of marriage (and everything involved with that) and adoption.

 

[xsited1]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

Hold on there! I support gay rights just as much as the most liberal person on this board, but in reality we don't know that "it doesn't hurt anyone." The jury is still out on this.

All we know is that repressed homosexuality (or repressed sexuality in general) hurts... The jury might be out for you, but it certainly isn't for me or any single friend of mine. I have known enough homosexual men and women and can't come up with any way how could their sexuality negatively influence anyone else or the society in general.

You say you support their rights yet you're extremely preoccupied with finding out origin of homosexuality and even uttering such statements as 'jury is still out' on whether their sexuality hurts anyone... A bit of a contradiction there... in my mind's eye...

Anywho... in case someone would come up with a way or two in which homosexuality and homosexuals 'hurt anyone' or society... What would society do about it? Make it illegal?

What the FUCK ever.

It's the same shit like people trying to find out which race is 'superior' and in what ways to others... totally stupid, counter-productive and regressive.

It's not really a contradiction. At one time, smoking was perfectly legal and well accepted by the medical community. Now the government is trying to tax it out of existence. Yes, it is bad for you and can be bad for those around you, but I still support the rights of smokers.

You've already got your mind made up so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Dr Grump]

Smoking is a health issue and an addictive substance. Sexuality is a different subject all together...

 

[xsited1]

Smoking is a health issue and an addictive substance. Sexuality is a different subject all together...

You'll get no argument that smoking is a health issue and tobacco is an addictive substance. But we didn't always know that. And I'm talking about a rights issue. A comparison can most certainly be made.

 

[jillian]

No, I didn't feel like the discussion had run it's course yet. I guess not everyone agreed. But Gunny didn't seem to have a problem with it so I started it again.

Perhaps, but the world is still a harder place for homosexuals so I think that if there were a way to make life easier for them they should have access to it. I don't think people should have to suffer.

The last part made me laugh. You don't think I haven't caught my fair share of shit for being who I am? Not everyone is the same, some people can't take adversity, some can. If I were gay I would probably do the pride parades (tho not mostly naked) because I'm perfectly willing to take abuse for what I believe in. If nothing else in my life I feel like I've proven (at least to myself) I can take a beating for my principles.

I'm not talking about whether it was correct that you be allowed to re-post yet another thred on this subject.

I'm talking about your getting the same responses this issue ALWAYS gets. But like anyone else obsessed with a particular issue, whether it be the color of people's skins (and what exactly that means or doesn't mean) ... or homosexuality ... or reproductive choice... they are issues where no one changes their mind. You get the same back and forth...

ultimately, like i said, for someone who wants her own sexuality to be embraced, you spend a lot of time trying to marginalize others. so i'm not sure how that's representative of "principles". more like bigotry, sounds like.

 

[Red Dawn]

I really don't care whether homosexuality is a consequence of nature or nurture. All I know is that it doesn't hurt anyone and it's much better expressed than kept locked deep inside.

When it comes to the 'cure'... How can you 'cure' or 'change' who you fall in love with?

I think you're missing the point. Some homosexuals have said that if they had a choice they wouldn't choose to be gay. They have expressed dissatisfaction. Would you deny them the chance to change that and be happier? I wouldn't.

This isn't about whether or not homosexuality is bad for society, it's about individual happiness.

Some women get harrassed for having sex out of wedlock. I think in some countries, women who have sex out of wedlock can be executed in honor killings by the father and brothers.

In this country, the bible and the relgious rightwing frown on sex out of wedlock. I'm sure there's a fair bit of harrassment of young women in some of those fundamentalist communities.

Should we invent a better chastity belt, or a pill that keeps young women from wanting sex until their wedding night?

of course not. That would be ridiculous. The people with the problems, are the ones who are bigoted or the ones doing the harrassing. The gays, and the young women having sex out of wedlock are not the problem. The bigots and the control freaks are the problem. THEY are the ones who shoud change, not the gays or the young women.