What Happens In The Duante Williams Case Before Cameras?

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

Come on, Man! I wished you luck with your alternative plan, whatever it is. What do you want from me?
Some people always will want to be in law enforcement, same as some will always want to join the military and lord knows the grunts have been sh#t on many times, but still they volunteer.
Police officers have no duty to protect us. It has been proven in court. They are mostly there after the fact to bring the bad guys back to face justice, which is dangerous enough and laudable.
So what are you saying or advocating for? You have suggested high levels of training would be too expensive and useless. Now you are suggesting if we don't just look the other way, they (I guess cops you may know) will just ride around in patrol cars on our dime and do nothing to protect us? You really don't think to much of cops, when you get right down to it.

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

Come on, Man! I wished you luck with your alternative plan, whatever it is. What do you want from me?
Some people always will want to be in law enforcement, same as some will always want to join the military and lord knows the grunts have been sh#t on many times, but still they volunteer.
Police officers have no duty to protect us. It has been proven in court. They are mostly there after the fact to bring the bad guys back to face justice, which is dangerous enough and laudable.
So what are you saying or advocating for? You have suggested high levels of training would be too expensive and useless. Now you are suggesting if we don't just look the other way, they (I guess cops you may know) will just ride around in patrol cars on our dime and do nothing to protect us? You really don't think to much of cops, when you get right down to it.

My dad was a Fire Chief. His best friend was a Police Lt.. I knew all of the cops in town on a first name basis. I don't think any of them ever fired their service weapon other than periodic qualifications at a gun range. My point is that it's fool hardy to expect someone who's never been in a real life situation where they're forced to use a weapon to do so seamlessly because of "training"! It's no different than soldiers who receive training before combat. The newbies to combat tend to screw up and die because you can't simulate real combat in training. This notion that more Police training is going to make this problem of blacks being shot while resisting arrest go away is a pipe dream. I can tell you what's going to happen if we keep going this way. You're going to have Police who won't get out of their cars in certain areas. Who only show up long AFTER a crime has been committed! Who won't make traffic stops in high crime areas. Then watch crime numbers in those areas sky rocket.

As for who's going to be there to protect us from criminals? You just made the argument that we're all going to need to do so for ourselves. So I take it you're a staunch gun rights advocate?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

When when 90% of blacks are murdered by other blacks why this focus on white cops all of a sudden? If, indeed "black lives matter". Do they? Why and since when and who says?

90% of whites are killed by other whites, dope.
That of course has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

Come on, Man! I wished you luck with your alternative plan, whatever it is. What do you want from me?
Some people always will want to be in law enforcement, same as some will always want to join the military and lord knows the grunts have been sh#t on many times, but still they volunteer.
Police officers have no duty to protect us. It has been proven in court. They are mostly there after the fact to bring the bad guys back to face justice, which is dangerous enough and laudable.
So what are you saying or advocating for? You have suggested high levels of training would be too expensive and useless. Now you are suggesting if we don't just look the other way, they (I guess cops you may know) will just ride around in patrol cars on our dime and do nothing to protect us? You really don't think to much of cops, when you get right down to it.

My dad was a Fire Chief. His best friend was a Police Lt.. I knew all of the cops in town on a first name basis. I don't think any of them ever fired their service weapon other than periodic qualifications at a gun range. My point is that it's fool hardy to expect someone who's never been in a real life situation where they're forced to use a weapon to do so seamlessly because of "training"! It's no different than soldiers who receive training before combat. The newbies to combat tend to screw up and die because you can't simulate real combat in training. This notion that more Police training is going to make this problem of blacks being shot while resisting arrest go away is a pipe dream. I can tell you what's going to happen if we keep going this way. You're going to have Police who won't get out of their cars in certain areas. Who only show up long AFTER a crime has been committed! Who won't make traffic stops in high crime areas. Then watch crime numbers in those areas sky rocket.

As for who's going to be there to protect us from criminals? You just made the argument that we're all going to need to do so for ourselves. So I take it you're a staunch gun rights advocate?

People tend to act as they are trained. That is the problem with young morons resisting on the street and the problem with how some officer's sometimes react. Like soldiers, you do tend to fight as you are trained and that is why we intentionally train. Unfortunately training on the street is ongoing in meeting with thugs on a continuing bases and in less formal, intentional training received and supposedly simple or basic rules can start to be ignored.
That is why soldiers receive continuing training to keep them at a level that will come closer to insuring intentionally trained actions/reactions and closer adherence to best practices trained. Again, if looking for 100%, you won't get it. But, you will remain closer to standard. Soldiers still die in combat, because the enemy trains also, combat is a dynamic, super fluid environment and a soldier can still be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lessons learned are continuously reviewed and analyzed in after action and go back into intentional training. Even basic skills are retrained to standard and tested. Training works.
The result you predict is not correct, and the result of total breakdown of not only training and standards, but moral, moral being another command responsibility. Cops, like soldiers do and will and will continue to move to the sound of guns. Commanders that do not enforce training standards and discipline are changed out for those that do. Commanders can stay too long in one position. That is the reason for the up or out cycle seen in the military so Commanders do not become complacent, leading to breakdown of training and moral. It's the green machine. The green machine works.
I would not be described as overly staunch as, I lack the basic required paranoia, though it is true, I do support basic gun rights and do maintain training and proficiency with the weapons I own and continue training with.

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

Come on, Man! I wished you luck with your alternative plan, whatever it is. What do you want from me?
Some people always will want to be in law enforcement, same as some will always want to join the military and lord knows the grunts have been sh#t on many times, but still they volunteer.
Police officers have no duty to protect us. It has been proven in court. They are mostly there after the fact to bring the bad guys back to face justice, which is dangerous enough and laudable.
So what are you saying or advocating for? You have suggested high levels of training would be too expensive and useless. Now you are suggesting if we don't just look the other way, they (I guess cops you may know) will just ride around in patrol cars on our dime and do nothing to protect us? You really don't think to much of cops, when you get right down to it.

My dad was a Fire Chief. His best friend was a Police Lt.. I knew all of the cops in town on a first name basis. I don't think any of them ever fired their service weapon other than periodic qualifications at a gun range. My point is that it's fool hardy to expect someone who's never been in a real life situation where they're forced to use a weapon to do so seamlessly because of "training"! It's no different than soldiers who receive training before combat. The newbies to combat tend to screw up and die because you can't simulate real combat in training. This notion that more Police training is going to make this problem of blacks being shot while resisting arrest go away is a pipe dream. I can tell you what's going to happen if we keep going this way. You're going to have Police who won't get out of their cars in certain areas. Who only show up long AFTER a crime has been committed! Who won't make traffic stops in high crime areas. Then watch crime numbers in those areas sky rocket.

As for who's going to be there to protect us from criminals? You just made the argument that we're all going to need to do so for ourselves. So I take it you're a staunch gun rights advocate?

People tend to act as they are trained. That is the problem with young morons resisting on the street and the problem with how some officer's sometimes react. Like soldiers, you do tend to fight as you are trained and that is why we intentionally train. Unfortunately training on the street is ongoing in meeting with thugs on a continuing bases and in less formal, intentional training received and supposedly simple or basic rules can start to be ignored.
That is why soldiers receive continuing training to keep them at a level that will come closer to insuring intentionally trained actions/reactions and closer adherence to best practices trained. Again, if looking for 100%, you won't get it. But, you will remain closer to standard. Soldiers still die in combat, because the enemy trains also, combat is a dynamic, super fluid environment and a soldier can still be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lessons learned are continuously reviewed and analyzed in after action and go back into intentional training. Even basic skills are retrained to standard and tested. Training works.
The result you predict is not correct, and the result of total breakdown of not only training and standards, but moral, moral being another command responsibility. Cops, like soldiers do and will and will continue to move to the sound of guns. Commanders that do not enforce training standards and discipline are changed out for those that do. Commanders can stay too long in one position. That is the reason for the up or out cycle seen in the military so Commanders do not become complacent, leading to breakdown of training and moral. It's the green machine. The green machine works.
I would not be described as overly staunch as, I lack the basic required paranoia, though it is true, I do support basic gun rights and do maintain training and proficiency with the weapons I own and continue training with.

What do you think would happen in a military setting if soldiers were required to wear body cameras and their actions were then reviewed by a group of people hostile to them? If the "fog of war" was no longer a reason for killing the wrong person but a mistake in judgement on the battle field would result in a soldier standing trial for murder?

 

[White 6]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

Come on, Man! I wished you luck with your alternative plan, whatever it is. What do you want from me?
Some people always will want to be in law enforcement, same as some will always want to join the military and lord knows the grunts have been sh#t on many times, but still they volunteer.
Police officers have no duty to protect us. It has been proven in court. They are mostly there after the fact to bring the bad guys back to face justice, which is dangerous enough and laudable.
So what are you saying or advocating for? You have suggested high levels of training would be too expensive and useless. Now you are suggesting if we don't just look the other way, they (I guess cops you may know) will just ride around in patrol cars on our dime and do nothing to protect us? You really don't think to much of cops, when you get right down to it.

My dad was a Fire Chief. His best friend was a Police Lt.. I knew all of the cops in town on a first name basis. I don't think any of them ever fired their service weapon other than periodic qualifications at a gun range. My point is that it's fool hardy to expect someone who's never been in a real life situation where they're forced to use a weapon to do so seamlessly because of "training"! It's no different than soldiers who receive training before combat. The newbies to combat tend to screw up and die because you can't simulate real combat in training. This notion that more Police training is going to make this problem of blacks being shot while resisting arrest go away is a pipe dream. I can tell you what's going to happen if we keep going this way. You're going to have Police who won't get out of their cars in certain areas. Who only show up long AFTER a crime has been committed! Who won't make traffic stops in high crime areas. Then watch crime numbers in those areas sky rocket.

As for who's going to be there to protect us from criminals? You just made the argument that we're all going to need to do so for ourselves. So I take it you're a staunch gun rights advocate?

People tend to act as they are trained. That is the problem with young morons resisting on the street and the problem with how some officer's sometimes react. Like soldiers, you do tend to fight as you are trained and that is why we intentionally train. Unfortunately training on the street is ongoing in meeting with thugs on a continuing bases and in less formal, intentional training received and supposedly simple or basic rules can start to be ignored.
That is why soldiers receive continuing training to keep them at a level that will come closer to insuring intentionally trained actions/reactions and closer adherence to best practices trained. Again, if looking for 100%, you won't get it. But, you will remain closer to standard. Soldiers still die in combat, because the enemy trains also, combat is a dynamic, super fluid environment and a soldier can still be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lessons learned are continuously reviewed and analyzed in after action and go back into intentional training. Even basic skills are retrained to standard and tested. Training works.
The result you predict is not correct, and the result of total breakdown of not only training and standards, but moral, moral being another command responsibility. Cops, like soldiers do and will and will continue to move to the sound of guns. Commanders that do not enforce training standards and discipline are changed out for those that do. Commanders can stay too long in one position. That is the reason for the up or out cycle seen in the military so Commanders do not become complacent, leading to breakdown of training and moral. It's the green machine. The green machine works.
I would not be described as overly staunch as, I lack the basic required paranoia, though it is true, I do support basic gun rights and do maintain training and proficiency with the weapons I own and continue training with.

What do you think would happen in a military setting if soldiers were required to wear body cameras and their actions were then reviewed by a group of people hostile to them? If the "fog of war" was no longer a reason for killing the wrong person but a mistake in judgement on the battle field would result in a soldier standing trial for murder?

Rules of combat are a lot less forgiving dealing with enemies in a war zone than rules of cops dealing with situations in a civilian citizenry made up of the police department's countrymen and women. Seen any strafing attack helicopter, artillery barrages from Div Arty, cruise missiles controlled from thousands of miles away? Not the same thing, eh?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

When when 90% of blacks are murdered by other blacks why this focus on white cops all of a sudden? If, indeed "black lives matter". Do they? Why and since when and who says?

What percentage of whites are murdered by whites??

Probably like 2% because of how much whites love each other and would never hurt one another

 

[Oldestyle]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

Who is Duante Williams?

View attachment 479655



(5) Duante Williams Profiles | Facebook

Dropped facebook in 2016. Is this person in the news or something. Did not come up on a simple search

No, I'm just being a smartass.
The OP has the name wrong.

It's really about the "TASER, TASER, TASER, Blam! OH, shit I just shot that guy!" shooting?
That was sad. The cop resigned today. Protecting her 26 year pension, maybe? Probably good decision. For a 26 year veteran of the force her presence of mind and weapons management was sh#t. You can lose the edge and be a danger to those around you.
I didn't understand why the Chief resigned. Something I'm not getting.

Let's be honest here, White...the average cop in a suburban area might pull their weapon in earnest once or twice in their entire career! The idea that they're going to be calm, cool and collected all of the time when that happens is really wishful thinking. They're probably jacked up on adrenaline and things are happening faster than they can process them. You're more apt to see Barney Fife than you are Dirty Harry!

Understand the popular logic of what you say, and it is reasonable and well spoken, but does not change the fact, staying collected to the point you can at the very least exercise weapons management (especially if carrying multiple weapons) is exactly what is called for. Looking at it from the point of view of an accident investigator, this is a perfect example of what I say. Tough job, stressful, complex, combining multiple disciplines, exercising a variety of trained skill sets in an ever changing, moving environment. Not easy, but that is what is called for. Some people are never cut out for it. Some lose their edge and are no long up to it. When talking about officers on the street with the ability to wield deadly force, do not be willing to accept simple answers of why something happened as valid excuses for it happening. Somebody is dead. The ultimate irreclaimable mistake has been made.
The officer has resigned. Dispensing with idea of saving her pension, community reaction and bad publicity to the organization she represented, I will say that she probably knows exactly, the point I am making, realizes she is not up to that task. I am a charitable person, but only to a point.

My point was that what you call "weapons management" is a concept which I'm sure we'd all like our Police to be well versed in but in reality it's rather obvious they are prone to lapses simply because the Police are very seldom called on to use their weapons. This wasn't a rookie officer. This was someone who had been a Police officer for over twenty years! I'd be curious to know how many times she was actually forced to pull her weapon during those twenty years. I would be willing to wager that number would be something you could count on one hand.

I'd love to believe that our Police possess the variety of trained skill sets that you seem to think they should have...but my experiences with the Police is that their job consists of long boring hours, days and weeks that at any time could explode into a violent confrontation where lives are at risk. It's a thankless job at best these days but who in their right minds would opt for a profession where chances are that at some point you will experience violence and if you don't respond to it in a manner that those who will examine your actions later deem to be proper that you can be fired or worse, incarcerated. The left is calling for a "defunding" of the Police! They needn't bother. At this rate nobody is going to want to be a Police Officer.

Like it or not it is the responsibility of the people who command police officers to insist on continuing training, to make sure it is ingrained into those officer, that this skill set, abilities and presence of mind, and judgement is exactly what is required and there is no getting around it. It is called professionalism. Would you care if it cost more in training dollars to maintain skills, qualifications, and adherence to training standards previously achieved. I wouldn't and I'm no bleeding hear liberal. I just know that with power you must also pick up responsibility. You must have high standards for people who might wield the ultimate power over citizens. I do not care if people that cannot cut it or are not looking to have to maintain professional standards and abilities after they pass their break in period go into police work in the first place. much less stay there. If better suited to working on the line at a factory, great. That is where they need to be. Being a cop is not about their personal edification and benefit. If they do it poorly, they deserve to have their ass in a sling and possibly prosecuted, depending on the kind and level of mistake they make. I can say that knowing that I like and respect most cops, but still know that is what the job is ultimately about.

I ask again...why would anyone want to become a Police Officer today? It's a thankless job. You're now expected to be "perfect" and if you're not...then you're going to be tarred and feathered by the woke mob!

I like and respect most cops as well but I've never lost sight of the fact that they are human with all of the things that come along with that. This notion that "training" is going to somehow create a Police force that doesn't make mistakes borders on farce!

I keep coming back to the fact that Duante Williams did a series of incredibly stupid things that led to his being shot. He committed armed robbery. He didn't show up for court after getting bailed out. He drove around in a car with expired plates when he knew he had a warrant out for his arrest. Then when he got pulled over he decides to make a run for it. At some point folks...the bad choices you make in Life will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. Does that sound harsh? Probably...but if Life has taught me anything it's that Life usually IS harsh when you do moronic things!

Nobody said mistakes wouldn't be made, but the number being made has gotten ridiculous and often when the officer is wrong, it it is covered by the blue curtain of silence and supported by people that think they should always be supported, just because they are law enforcement to the exclusion of fairness, justice and accountability.
Yet many are quite good at it. There will always be a majority that are at least acting with competence and as I said, many are quite good at it. When they aren't they have to deal with their own, as when they don't it does in fact make them all look bad and makes their job even harder and more dangerous for themselves, as well as the citizens on the street.
Bad choices do suck and can be deadly for yourself and others. You did see the officer's body cam video with sound, right? He acted stupidly, but she made a deadly mistake. The jury will see that body cam footage, like the rest of us, same as we all watched Chauvin kill that dude. When they are wrong, especially deadly wrong, there just is no legitimate excuse to cover for them.

Has it really gotten ridiculous? How many thousands of interactions are taking place between the Police and the public at any given minute? What percentage of those interactions lead to the death of someone? It's miniscule. To be quite honest with you I think the narrative that the Police are targeting innocent blacks is a crock. The statistics simply don't back up that claim. Are some black being killed interacting with the Police? Yes. But rather than push the narrative that this is taking place because of "racist" cops...don't you think a better solution to the problem is to ask why a young man like Duante has gotten himself into a position like that? What in God's name was he thinking that day? You've done one stupid thing after another until you're fighting with the Police to keep from being arrested? You think Police "training" is the solution to that kind of idiocy? I think you've got your priorities backwards.

Well in the age of body cameras, dash cameras, security cameras, cell phones with high quality video/audio capability in every pocket and purse, cops will just have to adapt to the visibility as another environmental factor, instead of doing misdeeds live in front of the world and juries that will convict and a public that will react to strong dramatic evidence of actions that cannot be countenanced or ignored due to lack of evidence.
Most cops do not act and react the way of some that become notorious do. Most cops keep any racial bigotry in check, so yes it is overblown. Cops doing cop stuff do not attract the attention paid to the bad or questionable apples. There had developed a belief in the general public that these misdeeds generally go unpunished, that the law is above the law, They will have to give up old ways covering for bad policing, and become less tolerant of their own.
People in general do stupid crap. Some people expect to get away with more, or believe themselves to be above having to put up with police, policing. They are not. Some feel it is owed due to past discrimination of race in general. It is not. Some wish to use the current climate to advantage to get away with more. Just another thug scam, but one that unfortunately does get used to advantage, but it is what it is.
Yes, I think training and instilled discipline will have to be the answer, unless willing to justify the unjustifiable and live in a police state and put up with oppression of everybody that comes with it. Some think we are there now. Remember, more whites are stopped daily, shot by police yearly, incarcerated for crime in this country than minorities, and many right here on this board harbor resentment and mistrust of law enforcement. There is a difference in mindset of the general public, though that does not support white thuggery, as they do not deserve our support, so we do not riot and provoke burning and looting sprees in retaliation.

I think you're naive if you think training and instilled discipline for the Police is going to be the answer to this! As long as people like Duante Williams keep doing stupid things then things like this are going to happen. Did the Policewoman make a tragic mistake? Oh yeah, she screwed up big time but my point is that humans DO screw up and it's not because they're bad people...it's because they are people and people make mistakes. That brings us right back to how we fix this. It's not with more Police training...it's with the public understanding that resisting an arrest is incredibly stupid and puts you at risk. That's not a black/white thing...that's a common sense thing!

To be sure, it will not ever make sense to resist the police on the side of the road. It's never crossed my mind to do it. Still, you will have greater success training police than the public.
There was a policeman injured yesterday, after some 61 year old man assualted a store employee with a piece of lumber after employee asked him to put on a mask. He left store and when the cops stopped him, the cop reached through the window got stuck (probably because the guy rolled up the electric window) and then dragged the cop down the street while hitting him with a hammer. Cop will recover and the guy was arrested later. Reaching in the window probably a bad idea, also. The cop got trained, on the job. Bet he will be more cautious of that kind of training error next time.

Sigh, my point...which you can't seem to grasp is that no amount of training is going to ensure that the Police don't make mistakes. Since that is the case...then why aren't our young people having it pounded into their heads by their parents, teachers and any other authority figure they listen to that resisting arrest is monumentally stupid? The lesson they're learning now is that the Police are violent racists who only live to oppress black people. It's the narrative that their teachers preach, their political leaders exploit and the main stream media trumpets! The truth of the matter is that if you're a law abiding black person living in a high crime area...the Police are your best friend. They're one of the only things making it safe for you to leave your house.

Sigh, nothing is going to insure 100%. Training, adopting and maintaining standards, law enforcement recognizing and working their problem practices and problem individual personnel is only thing that will make a significant change.

I respectfully disagree. Pretending that "training" is going to make a significant change is wishful thinking. The average Police Officer goes years without pulling their service weapon. Expecting them to react flawlessly when they're in a stressful situation is a recipe for disaster. I can tell you exactly how this will play out. We'll spend billions on a Police training program that won't change things at all because it won't change the idiotic way that some members of the the public behave.

I guess we will just have to keep prosecuting the crap out of the bad actors and the careless, then and of course the good cops can just keep putting up with the bad imagery. Not sure what you had in mind that will change the public that is proven to work, and not sure why you guys have not instituted it, but wish you luck on it.
There are some good officers that do step in to stop the excess of fellow officers, but it sometime does not end well for them behind the Blue Curtain. Every dog has his day though. Did you see this story?:
Judge rules against 2008 firing of Black police officer who stopped white officer's chokehold
A judge in New York ruled this week in favor a Black police officer from Buffalo who was accused of improperly using force against a fellow officer when she traded blows with a white officer who was putting a handcuffed Black man into a chokehold while he shouted that he couldn't breathe.

As part of the ruling Tuesday, Horne will be granted back pay and benefits. City council members previously voted last year for a resolution urging Letitia James, the state's attorney general, to examine the case.

"My vindication comes at a 15-year cost, but what has been gained could not be measured," Horne told the Times. "I never wanted another police officer to go through what I had gone through for doing the right thing."

MSN

www.msn.com

I'm a pragmatic person, White! I don't think what the left is doing right now vis a vis Policing is going to improve things! I think it's going to make good people think long and hard before becoming Police Officers. I also think it's going to make Police Officers think long and hard before they put themselves out there to protect us. You're going to have cops driving around in cruisers reluctant to get out of them because they're worried they're going to do something that will end up with them doing jail time because their actions will be second guessed by people that hate them. I predict a spike in crime because the people we rely on to protect us...are now afraid of us!

Come on, Man! I wished you luck with your alternative plan, whatever it is. What do you want from me?
Some people always will want to be in law enforcement, same as some will always want to join the military and lord knows the grunts have been sh#t on many times, but still they volunteer.
Police officers have no duty to protect us. It has been proven in court. They are mostly there after the fact to bring the bad guys back to face justice, which is dangerous enough and laudable.
So what are you saying or advocating for? You have suggested high levels of training would be too expensive and useless. Now you are suggesting if we don't just look the other way, they (I guess cops you may know) will just ride around in patrol cars on our dime and do nothing to protect us? You really don't think to much of cops, when you get right down to it.

My dad was a Fire Chief. His best friend was a Police Lt.. I knew all of the cops in town on a first name basis. I don't think any of them ever fired their service weapon other than periodic qualifications at a gun range. My point is that it's fool hardy to expect someone who's never been in a real life situation where they're forced to use a weapon to do so seamlessly because of "training"! It's no different than soldiers who receive training before combat. The newbies to combat tend to screw up and die because you can't simulate real combat in training. This notion that more Police training is going to make this problem of blacks being shot while resisting arrest go away is a pipe dream. I can tell you what's going to happen if we keep going this way. You're going to have Police who won't get out of their cars in certain areas. Who only show up long AFTER a crime has been committed! Who won't make traffic stops in high crime areas. Then watch crime numbers in those areas sky rocket.

As for who's going to be there to protect us from criminals? You just made the argument that we're all going to need to do so for ourselves. So I take it you're a staunch gun rights advocate?

People tend to act as they are trained. That is the problem with young morons resisting on the street and the problem with how some officer's sometimes react. Like soldiers, you do tend to fight as you are trained and that is why we intentionally train. Unfortunately training on the street is ongoing in meeting with thugs on a continuing bases and in less formal, intentional training received and supposedly simple or basic rules can start to be ignored.
That is why soldiers receive continuing training to keep them at a level that will come closer to insuring intentionally trained actions/reactions and closer adherence to best practices trained. Again, if looking for 100%, you won't get it. But, you will remain closer to standard. Soldiers still die in combat, because the enemy trains also, combat is a dynamic, super fluid environment and a soldier can still be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lessons learned are continuously reviewed and analyzed in after action and go back into intentional training. Even basic skills are retrained to standard and tested. Training works.
The result you predict is not correct, and the result of total breakdown of not only training and standards, but moral, moral being another command responsibility. Cops, like soldiers do and will and will continue to move to the sound of guns. Commanders that do not enforce training standards and discipline are changed out for those that do. Commanders can stay too long in one position. That is the reason for the up or out cycle seen in the military so Commanders do not become complacent, leading to breakdown of training and moral. It's the green machine. The green machine works.
I would not be described as overly staunch as, I lack the basic required paranoia, though it is true, I do support basic gun rights and do maintain training and proficiency with the weapons I own and continue training with.

What do you think would happen in a military setting if soldiers were required to wear body cameras and their actions were then reviewed by a group of people hostile to them? If the "fog of war" was no longer a reason for killing the wrong person but a mistake in judgement on the battle field would result in a soldier standing trial for murder?

Rules of combat are a lot less forgiving dealing with enemies in a war zone than rules of cops dealing with situations in a civilian citizenry made up of the police department's countrymen and women. Seen any strafing attack helicopter, artillery barrages from Div Arty, cruise missiles controlled from thousands of miles away? Not the same thing, eh?

You're the one who brought up the military. I simply pointed out how soldiers aren't under the same scrutiny as the Police these days which means we have little to no idea how effective "training" is before they go into combat! My guess is that it's just as ineffective as training for the Police. My guess is that the military learns "on the job" when they are in combat and that it's always been that way!

 

[Esdraelon]

Resisting arrest should not warrant the death penalty.

I agree. One can say the same for cops. When they are arresting a person and that person breaks away and dives into a vehicle, they just became a potentially deadly threat. That boy died of stupid.

 

[Utilitarian]

Scary.

Likely some made up story he grabber her gun.

I'm assuming you meant Duante Wright, but it looks like an honest (but fatal) mistake by the cop. She'll probably get a manslaughter or negligent homicide charge.

 

[Utilitarian]

When when 90% of blacks are murdered by other blacks why this focus on white cops all of a sudden? If, indeed "black lives matter". Do they? Why and since when and who says?

What percentage of whites are murdered by whites??

Probably like 2% because of how much whites love each other and would never hurt one another

I'm assuming this is sarcasm. Whites are the least tribalist of all racial groups in America. White liberals even have an outgroup bias rather than an ingroup one.

Most murder of whites is done by other white people, just like most murder of blacks is done by other black people. That being said, there is more black on white murder than the reverse.