What exactly have Liberals done for us?

[rightwinger]

Yes, but what you're clearly trying to do with this thread is equate liberals of their time with todays liberals, and that's simply incorrect. There is absolutely nothing in common with classical liberals and the progressive liberals of today.

Thats not what I'm trying to do. I'm looking at the concept of liberalism vs the concept of conservatism. The issues that liberals attack change as we evolve
Conservativisms defense of the status quo has consistently put them on the wrong side of history

Yet you've attributed principles of liberals of the time with conservatism, such as nullification.

I never brought up nullification...i frankly don't give a shit about nullification. Its just "I'm taking my ball and going home" if I don't get my way

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The cheap-labor conservatives:



Opposed tariffs to protect American manufacturing. Reactionary southern planters failed to grasp the need to develop our own industrial base. They preferred to operate a slave labor driven cash crop economy for the simple reason that they – the wealthy planters that is – profited from economic underdevelopment.
Supported “nullification”, which said that states didn’t have to enforce federal laws they didn’t like. This “theory”, such as it was, was in direct contradiction to the provision of the US Constitution that made federal law “the supreme law of the land”.

So obviously you did bring up nullification, and it is not simply taking your ball and going home. Also, opposition to tariffs was a classical liberal position as well, not conservative. Also, it was the Confederates that were actually following classical liberal ideals by practicing their right to secede.

 

[JakeStarkey]

KK, that is horsecrap. Nullification and secession are not classic liberal ideas. Go study your definitions more carefully. They seceded in order to protect their property rights in human chattel, anything but liberal by fact or act.

Lincoln, the liberal, murdered the Confederacy and rightly so.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

KK, that is horsecrap. Nullification and secession are not classic liberal ideas. Go study your definitions more carefully. They seceded in order to protect their property rights in human chattel, anything but liberal by fact or act.

Lincoln, the liberal, murdered the Confederacy and rightly so.

Lincoln would have been considered conservative at the time. Those of the classical liberal Jeffersonian tradition believed in the right of nullification and secession.

 

[Ame®icano]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

All those listed things would happen sooner or later regardless who got the power.

If you look closer at all listed 1-9, all that was just about the votes.

And every time there is no enough votes, Liberals come up with another special interest group that will get them or keep them atop. Once those special interest groups get what they wanted and feel safe among others, they abandon their group and assimilate with the rest.

Right now, there is a fight for government healthcare and if everything goes as planed, that would bring them new 15 million votes at the next election. If that doesnt work for any reason (any other special interest group feel threatened), they will push for something else, let's say giving legal status to illegals that equal about 10-12 million votes.

 

[rightwinger]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

All those listed things would happen sooner or later regardless who got the power.

If you look closer at all listed 1-9, all that was just about the votes.

And every time there is no enough votes, Liberals come up with another special interest group that will get them or keep them atop. Once those special interest groups get what they wanted and feel safe among others, they abandon their group and assimilate with the rest.

Right now, there is a fight for government healthcare and if everything goes as planed, that would bring them new 15 million votes at the next election. If that doesnt work for any reason (any other special interest group feel threatened), they will push for something else, let's say giving legal status to illegals that equal about 10-12 million votes.

"Regardless of who got the power"??
All of these initiatives were opposed by conservatives....often violently

Your point that these issues were only pursued in an effort to gain votes is offensive. We only freed slaves so we could get their votes? Nice try

 

[Ame®icano]

1. Fought for the rights of the individual against a monarchy. Wrote our Declaration of Independence and Constitution...."All men are created equal"
2. Fought for the abolition of Slavery
3. Fought for worker rights.....40 hour workweek, safe workplace, child labor laws
4. Fought for our environment
5. Fought for a womans right to vote
6. Fought for Civil Rights
7. Fought for Gay rights
8. Fought for womens equality in the workplace
9. Social Security, Medicare, Medicade

It should be noted that conservatives fought against every one of these initiatives

All those listed things would happen sooner or later regardless who got the power.

If you look closer at all listed 1-9, all that was just about the votes.

And every time there is no enough votes, Liberals come up with another special interest group that will get them or keep them atop. Once those special interest groups get what they wanted and feel safe among others, they abandon their group and assimilate with the rest.

Right now, there is a fight for government healthcare and if everything goes as planed, that would bring them new 15 million votes at the next election. If that doesnt work for any reason (any other special interest group feel threatened), they will push for something else, let's say giving legal status to illegals that equal about 10-12 million votes.

"Regardless of who got the power"??
All of these initiatives were opposed by conservatives....often violently

Your point that these issues were only pursued in an effort to gain votes is offensive. We only freed slaves so we could get their votes? Nice try

If you look at the world history slavery in US was officially abolished (13th Amendment) later then in most of the world.

And about freeing slaves for votes, I had no intentions to be offensive. Statistics say it all.

 

[rightwinger]

All those listed things would happen sooner or later regardless who got the power.

If you look closer at all listed 1-9, all that was just about the votes.

And every time there is no enough votes, Liberals come up with another special interest group that will get them or keep them atop. Once those special interest groups get what they wanted and feel safe among others, they abandon their group and assimilate with the rest.

Right now, there is a fight for government healthcare and if everything goes as planed, that would bring them new 15 million votes at the next election. If that doesnt work for any reason (any other special interest group feel threatened), they will push for something else, let's say giving legal status to illegals that equal about 10-12 million votes.

"Regardless of who got the power"??
All of these initiatives were opposed by conservatives....often violently

Your point that these issues were only pursued in an effort to gain votes is offensive. We only freed slaves so we could get their votes? Nice try

If you look at the world history slavery in US was officially abolished (13th Amendment) later then in most of the world.

And about freeing slaves for votes, I had no intentions to be offensive. Statistics say it all.

Which statistics are those? The ones claimiing that freeing slaves was a secret attempt to gain the black vote? By the way, that vote went to the republicans until the republicans drove them away

 

[skookerasbil]

The point is that conservatives have come down on the wrong side of history on every major initiative to help the American people.

Other than "tinkle down economics" what have they given us?

LMAO........and who is responsible for the housing bust? 100% lefty initiative destroyed the housing market. Thats what happens when the government injects itself into the market dummy. ( CRA FTL). The good intentions of liberals ends up being disasterous for the majority forced to foot the bill. ( ahem.....the "wrong" side of history)

Heres what the common liberal has no clue about: that government IS big business. Big government leads to more big government = overregulation that fcukks the market and costs the regular folks. They are enamoured by good intentions........no matter the results.
Force banks to lend to non-credit worthy borrowers to "level the playing field". Who pays for that debacle? Regular Americans.......and still it continues. As long as the successful get fcukked by the miserable on the left, everything is great!!! Regualr Americans have been paying for liberals social engineering for decades now......those liberals responsible now for the welfare state. They came up with great idea's in the 1960's to provide welfare payments for children out of wedlock, and the illigitamacy rate amongst minorities exploded from 19% in 1959 to 79% by the late 1970's = fcukking brilliant. And actually.......it is quite brilliant politically. Think about it...........build up the rolls of those needing government asisstance and one has a permanent voting block. Of course, Obama has this strategy in high gear unike any president in the history of America. Its called trickle-down poverty economics s0ns............more brilliance ( seriously).

Other liberal debacles..............

Forced school busing
Welfare
Luxury Tax
Alternative minimum tax
Free Love
Alternative minimum tax
Drugs
Driver licenses for illegals
Environmental disasters
Liberal immigration policies
America brings terrorism on itself
Minimum wage
Cash for Clunkers
Stimulus creates jobs

 

[skookerasbil]

Want real good insight into liberal fcukked up thinking........read this book s0ns.............

 

[rightwinger]

Other liberal debacles..............

Forced school busing- Never would have been necessary without right wing segregation policies
Welfare- Every nation has a mechanism to take care of its poor
Luxury Tax- Poor baby! You need to pay tax on your Rolls
Alternative minimum tax- Oh my god! Don't they realize only the rich deserve tax breaks?
Free Love- Thanks Liberals!
Alternative minimum tax- Sounds so nice, you listed it twice
Drugs- As opposed to prescription drugs the wealthy are addicted to...Rush are you listening?
Driver licenses for illegals- Illegals drive whether they have a license or not.

Still waiting....In the history of the US, what initiatives have the conservatives given us??

We all know the answer.....conservatives only say NO

 

[EriktheRed]

So please stop trying to pretend you have the same mentality of someone like JFK. He would be a republican today most likely, for sure he would be attacked on a daily basis by the same legions of kooks you sent after Palin or anyone else conservative.

JFK would be part of this GOP????


The GOP which includes Sen. Inhofe, Sen. Coburn, Rep. Bachmann, Gov. Mooseburgers and is beholden to Rush Limbaugh??

 

[skookerasbil]

Other liberal debacles..............

Forced school busing- Never would have been necessary without right wing segregation policies
Welfare- Every nation has a mechanism to take care of its poor
Luxury Tax- Poor baby! You need to pay tax on your Rolls
Alternative minimum tax- Oh my god! Don't they realize only the rich deserve tax breaks?
Free Love- Thanks Liberals!
Alternative minimum tax- Sounds so nice, you listed it twice
Drugs- As opposed to prescription drugs the wealthy are addicted to...Rush are you listening?
Driver licenses for illegals- Illegals drive whether they have a license or not.

Still waiting....In the history of the US, what initiatives have the conservatives given us??

We all know the answer.....conservatives only say NO

Listen s0n...........one answer is all that is relevant. Its called free market. It is the reason America is America and the concept upon which all else follows. That lefties dont understand the dynamic is regrettable. But it is what it is.
The foundation of the fcukked up thinking of the modern day liberal is the complete misunderstanding of how the world should be. The conservative understands that in life, there is no such thing as all winners. There are winners and losers. Thats the way it has been for thousands of years, despite all attempts to try to prove otherwise.

There are two accepted views of the world: the tragic vision and the vision of the anointed. The tragic vision means the acceptance that there are natural and inherent limitations upon man — physical, mental, social — that will always prevent the possibility of creating a utopia on earth. Life is a never-ending struggle of using limited means to satisfy our numerous ends, with the necessity of having to accept tradeoffs that we hope will make us better off but never fully satisfied. And among those limited means are our own imperfections of knowledge that make it impossible for us to have either the ability or the wisdom to make a perfect world. The liberal doesnt have the capacity intellectually to embrace this reality. They think the paternalistic government can solve all that.......but conveniently ignore the tradeoffs. Through the manipulation of history, the abuse of statistical evidence, a distorted view of man and society, and the twisting of words and ideas, the intellectual elite ( lbierals ) are able to attain their goal: the control of other people's lives through political power over society. These techniques also enable them to maintain a fantasy world in which they can retain their conception of themselves as more virtuous, wiser, and better than their fellow human beings.

The liberal politician/thinker creates a world of victims, villains, and rescuers, with the anointed cast in the last and most heroic of these roles. This is why political correctness in politics, education, culture, history, and literature is so important to these anointed social engineers. Through this means, they hope, the human mind can be wiped clean and filled with the preconceived ideas and myths that will enable them to control those whom they desire to have mastery over. The idealistic in society are preyed upon......sheep, one might call them........duped by the politics of good intentions.

28 years ago.........I had bought this thinking hook,line and stinker. Carried the New York Times under one arm and the Marx/Engles Reader under the other on campus. I was far smarter than everyone else........I had read the "German Ideology" numerous times.........so what did THEY know. Then one wakes up and realizes the disaster of applying philosophy to social policy and what you end up with is just another segment of the population fcukked over instead of the utopia............

Fortunately, most Americans start recognizing that life frequently boils down to a choice between suck vs. suckier, thus they become conservatives............proven overwhelmingly in polls by the way ( by a 2-1 margin) Some never develop and continue to be duped for most or all of their lives................but no matter. They will always be in the vast minority...............

And thank God for that!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

Oh.........and by the way, did I mention?? Todays Rasmussen DISAPPROVE # on Obama.................

Oooooooooooooooooops!!!!!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

)0ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooops!!!!!!!!

 

[rightwinger]

Listen s0n...........one answer is all that is relevant. Its called free market. It is the reason America is America and the concept upon which all else follows. That lefties dont understand the dynamic is regrettable. But it is what it is.
The foundation of the fcukked up thinking of the modern day liberal is the complete misunderstanding of how the world should be. The conservative understands that in life, there is no such thing as all winners. There are winners and losers. Thats the way it has been for thousands of years, despite all attempts to try to prove otherwise.

Listen young man...
You may sell your simplistic view of the world to your right-wing dittoheads but nobody is buying your all or nothing mentality. Nobody questions that some people succeed and some fail in our society.For the most part, Rich people deserve to be rich/Poor people deserve to be poor. However, the richest nation in the world should be able to provide a basic standard of living for its poorest citizens.
My biggest concern is for the working poor in this country. Those trying to raise a family on $20K per year. People today need to work harder to obtain the same standard of living as their parents. Our next generation will need to work harder to obtain the same standard of living as us.
Why?
Because the amount of wealth hoarded by the top 5% of the country has increased significantly in our lifetime while wages have not kept pace with the price of housing, healthcare, college educations and energy. The right wing continues to throw more money at that top 5% and any money proposed to help the working class is called "socialism"

 

[namvet]

the ecomony

 

[HUGGY]

Two world wars

Korea

Vietnam

Countless suffering

Hundreds of thousands of dead Americans in foriegn causes

Of course, classic liberalism the was in vouge in the 19th century and before was a great thing, the modern version is a not.

Sometimes you seem coherant..then you post nonsense like this. Democrat does not equal "liberal" thruought the history of the U.S.

FYI WWI was started by the assasination of some obscure european archduke ferdinand. It had absolutely nothing to do with any american whatsoever. WWII ??? Just how do you justify such an assinine statement?

 

[MaggieMae]

Public Housing.
Public Schools.
Devastated US Housing Market by Bankrupting Fannie & Freddie.
SocSecurity, Medicare and Medicare all on similar glide path to bankruptcy and eventual civil war.
Threatened AAA rating of US government
Gave us the first ever unAmerican geniune Marxist President: BHObama

That's all your other stupid buddies in there. Comfy? ^^​

"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," -- Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

As the banks failed, it obviously would follow that F&F would too. Economists (even the most conservative) are no longer 'blaming' Fannie & Freddie as being instrumental. In fact, Federal Reserve Board data show that:

•More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

•Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

•Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics. That law would be the aforementioned Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).

While Fannie and Freddie were a small part of the problem, the mortgage failure actually happened as Fannie and Freddie were had reduced their holdings of subprimes from 48% to 24% between 2004 and 2006. In fact, in 2005 and 2006, private investment banks stopped using Fannie and Freddie for two-thirds of all the mortgages they initiated, preferring instead to package them into questionable mortgage-backed securities.

 

[MaggieMae]

Libruls also gave us Income Tax and the Federal Reserve System

And you have managed to survive in spite of those. Imagine that...