What ever happened to the "We'll Stand Down as the Stand Up" strategy

[DeadCanDance]

Wolfowitz paints a rosy picture of post-invasion iraq:

In his testimony, Mr. Wolfowitz ticked off several reasons why he believed a much smaller coalition peacekeeping force than General Shinseki envisioned would be sufficient to police and rebuild postwar Iraq. He said there was no history of ethnic strife in Iraq, as there was in Bosnia or Kosovo. He said Iraqi civilians would welcome an American-led liberation force that "stayed as long as necessary but left as soon as possible," but would oppose a long-term occupation force. And he said that nations that oppose war with Iraq would likely sign up to help rebuild it. "I would expect that even countries like France will have a strong interest in assisting Iraq in reconstruction," Mr. Wolfowitz said. He added that many Iraqi expatriates would likely return home to help.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm

Rumsfeld Assumes a Rosy Scenario:


Before the invasion, for example, U.S. intelligence agencies were persistent and unified in warning the Defense Department that Iraqis would resort to "armed opposition" after the war was over. The Army's chief of staff warned that a larger stability force would be needed.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his team disagreed, confident that Iraqi military and police units would help secure a welcoming nation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37468-2003Jul23.html

 

[maineman]

“Our mission is clear in Iraq. Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament.” George W. Bush, 3/6/03

please note that "mission" is singular in that quote.

disarmament. not the war on terror...not building a multicultural jeffersonian democracy... not even deposing the butcher of Baghdad. disarmament. singular. period.

mission - fucking - accomplished!

Let's go home.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Let's break this down:

The President of the US says it's going to take a long time. Logic and common sense say it's going to take a long time. The reality of the situation says it's going to take a long time.

Wolfowitz blows something optomistic out his ass and it's gospel?

No, I'm neither suffering amnesia nor trying to rewrite history. From all appearance, I just seem to be far more knowledgeable on the topic thatn you. Probably because I don't listen to opeds blowing smoke.

Uh, yeah. Suuuuuurrre

Bush predicted a civil war, and insurgeny, and years of bloody warfare prior to the invasion.

HaHaHaHa

You're delusional man. Bush and his minions sold this war as likely to be relatively cheap, a grateful iraqi population that would cooperate and greet us as liberators, and a reconstruction that would cost us practically nothing.

 

[Gunny]

Rumsfeld Assumes a Rosy Scenario:


Before the invasion, for example, U.S. intelligence agencies were persistent and unified in warning the Defense Department that Iraqis would resort to "armed opposition" after the war was over. The Army's chief of staff warned that a larger stability force would be needed.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his team disagreed, confident that Iraqi military and police units would help secure a welcoming nation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37468-2003Jul23.html

Yeah, so what's your point? I first heard that in 91.

What you're telling me is you chose to listen to a politician instead of th experts, and based your expected outcome on the former's opinion; rather, than the facts presented by the latter.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Yeah, so what's your point? I first heard that in 91.

What you're telling me is you chose to listen to a politician instead of th experts, and based your expected outcome on the former's opinion; rather, than the facts presented by the latter.

Yeah, so what's your point?

You said nobody in the rightwing sold this war as cheap or easy.

You were wrong.

 

[maineman]

pretty fuckin' scary when the secretary of defense is now just "some politician".

and yeah.... I think when the secretary of defense claims something, that Americans should have a right to feel comfortable that the man in charge of our military knows what the fuck he is talking about.

 

[Gunny]

Uh, yeah. Suuuuuurrre

Bush predicted a civil war, and insurgeny, and years of bloody warfare prior to the invasion.

HaHaHaHa

You're delusional man. Bush and his minions sold this war as likely to be relatively cheap, a grateful iraqi population that would cooperate and greet us as liberators, and a reconstruction that would cost us practically nothing.

Delusional? Hardly. But you're proving yourself to be pretty dumb. The JCS in 1991 predicted that if Saddam was removed from power, it would create a power vaccum in Iraq, and an internal war by various factions vying for control.

It's one of THE reasons we did not take him out in 91. That's pretty damned simple. Simple enough even for you.

Don't go to calling ME names because you weren't savvy enough to see what the REAL experts had to say instead of some politicians.

 

[Gunny]

Yeah, so what's your point?

You said nobody in the rightwing sold this war as cheap or easy.

You were wrong.

No I wasn't.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Rumsfeld Assumes a Rosy Scenario:


Before the invasion, for example, U.S. intelligence agencies were persistent and unified in warning the Defense Department that Iraqis would resort to "armed opposition" after the war was over. The Army's chief of staff warned that a larger stability force would be needed.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his team disagreed, confident that Iraqi military and police units would help secure a welcoming nation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37468-2003Jul23.html

Bush's Director of USAID predicts a rosy scenario for Iraqi Reconstruction

ABC Nightline w/ Ted Koppel:

TED KOPPEL: I want to be sure that I understood you correctly. You're saying the, the top cost for the US taxpayer will be $1.7 billion. No more than that?

ANDREW NATSIOS: For the reconstruction. And then there's 700 million in the supplemental budget for humanitarian relief, which we don't competitively bid 'cause it's charities that get that money.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/temp/natsios042303.html

 

[Gunny]

pretty fuckin' scary when the secretary of defense is now just "some politician".

and yeah.... I think when the secretary of defense claims something, that Americans should have a right to feel comfortable that the man in charge of our military knows what the fuck he is talking about.

Seems to me you lefties called him a lot worse than "some politician."

And I think you, maineman, retired Naval Officer, of all people should know that what the military knows is not always gets sold to the American people.

 

[DeadCanDance]

No I wasn't.

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"


I just gave you quotes from Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Bush's Director of Iraq Reconstruction Money. All painting Rosy Scenarios.

 

[maineman]

Delusional? Hardly. But you're proving yourself to be pretty dumb. The JCS in 1991 predicted that if Saddam was removed from power, it would create a power vaccum in Iraq, and an internal war by various factions vying for control.

It's one of THE reasons we did not take him out in 91. That's pretty damned simple. Simple enough even for you.

Don't go to calling ME names because you weren't savvy enough to see what the REAL experts had to say instead of some politicians.

actually, in 91, you are absolutely correct that the military was predicting chaos in the wake of a Saddam removal.... the difference was: the president named Bush actually listened to his generals.

I never thought I would wish for Bush senior to be back at the helm but his son is, without doubt, the scariest motherfucker to hold the office in MY lifetime, that is for sure!

 

[DeadCanDance]

With all due respect, you are not an honest person gunny.

 

[Gunny]

Bush's Director of USAID predicts a rosy scenario for Iraqi Reconstruction

When you get to the name of someone who is/was actually worth listening to, let me know. Like someone in intelligence, or the JCS.

Again, it's not my fault you don't know who to listen to. When I want to know about a war, I listen to the military, not politicians with agendas.

 

[maineman]

Seems to me you lefties called him a lot worse than "some politician."

And I think you, maineman, retired Naval Officer, of all people should know that what the military knows is not always gets sold to the American people.

note my reply above.... I fully understand that the civilians send us places that uniformed folks would not otherwise go into.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Here's a fundamental test of your honesty gunny:

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"


Within a span of 5 minutes I gave you quotes from Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and the Director of USAID. All painting rosy scenarios.

Was this statement of yours false?

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

 

[Gunny]

With all due respect, you are not an honest person gunny.

That fact? PROVE IT, bitch. And don't worry about the fallacious respect crap.

I'm completely honest. I'm just not dumb enough to listen to what politicians are selling when the facts dictate otherwise.

And I'm damned sure not going to sit here and listen to bunch of lying-ass bullshit.

You want dishonest? How about YOU trying to sell the fact that YOU actually listened to and believed what a bunch of Republicans had to say? GMAFB.

 

[DeadCanDance]

That fact? PROVE IT, bitch. And don't worry about the fallacious respect crap.

I'm completely honest. I'm just not dumb enough to listen to what politicians are selling when the facts dictate otherwise.

And I'm damned sure not going to sit here and listen to bunch of lying-ass bullshit.

You want dishonest? How about YOU trying to sell the fact that YOU actually listened to and believed what a bunch of Republicans had to say? GMAFB.

This statement was false, wasn't it?

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

 

[maineman]

This statement was false, wasn't it?

Gunny: "Again, nobody sold Iraq as cheap, quick or easy but you lefties"

rummy and wolfie are certainly not two of "us lefties"!

 

[DeadCanDance]

rummy and wolfie are certainly not two of "us lefties"!

It's like pulling teeth to get him to admit his statement was false.

Why is that? I've made plenty of wrong statements. And I've been a man with honor, and admitted them.