What does yours look like?

[Dr Grump]

You are not a middle of the roader. You are hard core lefty. That being said, utopia is a world where those who wish to work are rewarded for their efforts. Where crime and disease don't exist, and where people can do what they want, with who they want, when they want.

Only in uber conservative US am I considered a leftie of any description. You do realise that the US version of conservatism is way far to the right of any other conservatism in the western world - France, Germany, Aust, Canada, UK, NZ. It's not that I am far to the left, it is that you are far to the right.

I have many conservative planks. Many. Against abortion. Against affirmative action. Believe in a social safety net at the bottom of the cliff, not a hammock.

 

[Dr Grump]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

Guess I don't believe in Utopias.. Not really anything to DO in a "utopia" because everyone's NEEDS are resolved.. I've figured out the left/right divide is largely over this one word -- RISK ---.. Left tries to annihilate risk anywhere they see it -- the right realizes it's a fact of life and DRIVES us to innovate, open businesses, not get complacent about your future..

IDEALLY -- I'd like to see a Congress unmuzzled and unchained from the 2 party system.. MORE independents that can SPEAK AND ACT for themselves without Pelosi, McCarthy, Shumer and McTurtle stifling them.. Would like to see people concerned about their Civil Liberties and freedom.. And not allow a monstrously huge govt that can't faithfully the BASIC stuff that the Constitution asks of them..

Like to have a MEDIA that INVESTIGATES and WORKS for stories.. EXPECTS more of their subscribers and viewers.. And an education system that doesn't EXPECT LESS of underprivileged kids.. EVERYONE motivated by their educational mentors to become life long learners and contributors...

All good points. However, the media is totally stuffed now. I work in the media. Three years ago (and it has gotten worse), over a ten year period the value of publishing in the US shrunk from $60 billion to $40 billion and it has been shrinking ever since. No one wants to pay for newspapers any more. Advertising is falling through the floor. That is why there is so much fake news around. Everybody with a twitter account thinks they are a journalist - and no, that is not a crack at Trump, that is a crack at everyone.

 

[flacaltenn]

The conservatives pride themselves on self sufficiency, being self-made people, etc... In truth few if anyone is truly self-sufficient and few if anyone is self-made.

So in your "utopia" you PUNISH them for "self-sufficiency"? Or for taking RISKS and creating goods and services that HELP others?

Everyone wakes up, gets dressed and goes out to SERVE OTHERS... Even CEOs of giant corporations.. Bill Gates never stole from me.. Did not inherit that wealth.. Did not steal from you...

In fact, in your cute Apple picking meme -- Bill Gates give EVERYONE ladders so they don't have to climb on each other to get the job done.. I couldn't have gone "consultant" for 25 years unless Jobs, and Gates and HP and a hundred other RISK TAKERS put that equipment in my hand to do the job...

 

[Dr Grump]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

Are you asking what my version of utopia is or are you asking what I think a completely divided country would look like?

Fair question. I'm guess I'm asking if you divided the US into two separate states - one being conservative the other liberal - and all things being equal it is divided with the same amount of land, wealth etc - and there was no civil war - it was done all nicely etc, what would your country look like compared to the other.

I think it might happen eventually. Too much water under the bridge over the past two decades. Might even be a civil war over it. But i'm curious what the reality of each state would actually look like once the dust has settled.

Ok so let's say we divided the country into the West US and the East US and all the Conservatives lived in the East and all the Liberals in the West. Let's also say that we advance the clock 60 years so that at least 2 generations mature. So initially I think the Liberal and Conservative ideals would be fervently pursued. But as the initial polarized founders of this country died out and the younger generations grew up, I think both sides after a couple of generations would begin to resemble the original country with people having a mix of views.

So do I. I think you have hit it in a nutshell. Then the country would have to divide again as the generations became more polarised yet again.

I still think there would be some truism. More people put to death in conservative US. If you chose which country you wanted to live in when the country divided (which more or less what happened to India in 1948), the conservative US would also be a lot more Christian and white.

 

[EvMetro]

It would look a lot like this:

View attachment 320158

Its a metaphor for the entire nation. The conservatives pride themselves on self sufficiency, being self-made people, etc... In truth few if anyone is truly self-sufficient and few if anyone is self-made. Did you get a good education? That is because some liberal decided that compulsory education nationwide was a good thing. Kudos to you for taking full advantage of it but you got a leg-up before you were even born!!!

Lol, the picture show lefties working! We all know lefties want to be smoking pot on the couch while they wait for their wealth redistribution check.

 

[flacaltenn]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

Guess I don't believe in Utopias.. Not really anything to DO in a "utopia" because everyone's NEEDS are resolved.. I've figured out the left/right divide is largely over this one word -- RISK ---.. Left tries to annihilate risk anywhere they see it -- the right realizes it's a fact of life and DRIVES us to innovate, open businesses, not get complacent about your future..

IDEALLY -- I'd like to see a Congress unmuzzled and unchained from the 2 party system.. MORE independents that can SPEAK AND ACT for themselves without Pelosi, McCarthy, Shumer and McTurtle stifling them.. Would like to see people concerned about their Civil Liberties and freedom.. And not allow a monstrously huge govt that can't faithfully the BASIC stuff that the Constitution asks of them..

Like to have a MEDIA that INVESTIGATES and WORKS for stories.. EXPECTS more of their subscribers and viewers.. And an education system that doesn't EXPECT LESS of underprivileged kids.. EVERYONE motivated by their educational mentors to become life long learners and contributors...

All good points. However, the media is totally stuffed now. I work in the media. Three years ago (and it has gotten worse), over a ten year period the value of publishing in the US shrunk from $60 billion to $40 billion and it has been shrinking ever since. No one wants to pay for newspapers any more. Advertising is falling through the floor. That is why there is so much fake news around. Everybody with a twitter account thinks they are a journalist - and no, that is not a crack at Trump, that is a crack at everyone.

It's the democratization of "journalism".. Not ALL internet journalists are BAD.. In fact, the only REMAINING "investigative journalists" of any note are now independent on the web... When your editorial staff and mgt decide to pick a side and LIE for it --- it's really NOT a great a biz plan...

 

[Crixus]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

I would not do either because both sides would screw it up. I don't see how a liberal society would be more just. I guess it would depend on what's just to you. I don't think crime would be lower on the republican side, I just think the nature of the crimes committed would be different. if I had my way, my utopia would be located in the no mans land between both sides.

 

[candycorn]

The conservatives pride themselves on self sufficiency, being self-made people, etc... In truth few if anyone is truly self-sufficient and few if anyone is self-made.

So in your "utopia" you PUNISH them for "self-sufficiency"? Or for taking RISKS and creating goods and services that HELP others?

Nothing I wrote or illustrated remotely suggests any such thing.

Everyone wakes up, gets dressed and goes out to SERVE OTHERS... Even CEOs of giant corporations.. Bill Gates never stole from me.. Did not inherit that wealth.. Did not steal from you...

In fact, in your cute Apple picking meme -- Bill Gates give EVERYONE ladders so they don't have to climb on each other to get the job done.. I couldn't have gone "consultant" for 25 years unless Jobs, and Gates and HP and a hundred other RISK TAKERS put that equipment in my hand to do the job...

Not sure what Bill Gates has to do with anything.

I do know that conservatives (by and large) think they are self-made when they are not. Again, if you're healthy, some liberal sometime decided that there be truth in labeling laws for the medicine you consume, a hospital be placed where it is needed, not where it would serve those that could afford it only.

Are all liberals alturistic (sp?)? No. Are all Conservatives so short sighted? No. Just generalities.

 

[Chuz Life]

There is a huge difference between my idea of "Utopia" and my (more realistic) idea of a "best that I can hope for" type of society.

For example:

In my idea of a "utopia" people may disagree on things, but when presented with facts, they will all (regardless of politics) adjust their views accordingly.

In reality, political agendas exist and the facts be damned.

 

[fncceo]

My utopia looks a lot like this ...

At least it will be a utopia as soon as that stupid, opinionated, wrong-thinking volleyball chokes to death on his own spit.

 

[Muhammed]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

Are you asking what my version of utopia is or are you asking what I think a completely divided country would look like?

Fair question. I'm guess I'm asking if you divided the US into two separate states - one being conservative the other liberal - and all things being equal it is divided with the same amount of land, wealth etc - and there was no civil war - it was done all nicely etc, what would your country look like compared to the other.

I think it might happen eventually. Too much water under the bridge over the past two decades. Might even be a civil war over it. But i'm curious what the reality of each state would actually look like once the dust has settled.

The Democrat side would cease to exist. First the leaders would starve most of the population. And the rest would die of super AIDS after they pass their mandatory anti-discrimination laws which make anal sex with the HIV infected compulsory.

 

[CWayne]

You are not a middle of the roader. You are hard core lefty. That being said, utopia is a world where those who wish to work are rewarded for their efforts. Where crime and disease don't exist, and where people can do what they want, with who they want, when they want.

Only in uber conservative US am I considered a leftie of any description. You do realise that the US version of conservatism is way far to the right of any other conservatism in the western world - France, Germany, Aust, Canada, UK, NZ. It's not that I am far to the left, it is that you are far to the right.

I have many conservative planks. Many. Against abortion. Against affirmative action. Believe in a social safety net at the bottom of the cliff, not a hammock.

The reality is that Conservatism, the one you think that is too far to the right, hasn't actually moved at all. Your brand of 'conservatism' would have been considered far-left not that long ago. So, in fact, it IS YOU who are too far left.

 

[Olde Europe]

2006/7 both Houses of Congress reauthorized the Voting Rights Act as close to unanimously as it gets.

Then the Roberts Court scorched the crown jewel of civil rights legislation real crisp.

These days there is not a single Republican at the federal level so much as voicing support to restore the Act to its former glory. Conversely, we see a slew of voter-disenfranchisement legislation mostly, but not exclusively, in the retarded states formerly known as the Deep South.

Also: There is another tsunami of legislation in retarded states making access to reproductive choice ever harder.

Also: The GOP is the only major party on earth still, and increasingly, denying the reality of man-made climate change, and, increasingly, that anti-science stance encompasses more and more scientific realms, to the effect that Dr. Fauci gets death threats for laying it all out, calmly and reasonably, in contradiction to the Orange dunce's self-serving, ignorant bloviation.

Since "utopia" is generally little more than extrapolation of current trends, I would predict that Republicans are leaving the 1950s way behind and heading straight into 1800s.

All the while the Democrats will increasingly make their home in the 21st century, in doubt opting for inclusion, occasionally with scurrilous, sometimes hapless efforts, usually guided by science and compassion.

I would think it is reasonable to assume that populations will sort themselves, by and large, into denizens of the present, and denizens of the ever earlier past, and there's no telling how that will ultimately be resolved. Maybe the U.S. will one day have no chance other than to build walls around the flee-ridden, bigoted states, where poverty among large, bible-thumping and gun-toting majorities is rampant, and women are scarce after the resumption of witch trials.

 

[Vastator]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

Ever seen Mad Max? Something like that.

 

[Fueri]

For any Utopia to exist for any length of time the residents have to have a consensus on what the 'rules' of the Utopia are.

Good luck. 3 idiots sitting on the board of an HMO disprove the viability of that.

A person is smart, people are stupid. You could possibly have a personal Utopia for a time, a collective Utopia- never.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

More responsibility awarded by the government to each citizen, and along with that, more trust. A more independent society where every citizen strives harder to be resourceful and trustworthy. Self-policing of neighborhoods, more family centric—that sort of thing. Perhaps a return to the hunter/gatherer/agricultural small village way of life, but encapsulated somehow within our monolithic modern civilization.

Self policing would be an interesting one...

It worked for the Roman Empire

 

[Likkmee]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

More responsibility awarded by the government to each citizen, and along with that, more trust. A more independent society where every citizen strives harder to be resourceful and trustworthy. Self-policing of neighborhoods, more family centric—that sort of thing. Perhaps a return to the hunter/gatherer/agricultural small village way of life, but encapsulated somehow within our monolithic modern civilization.

That's pretty close.One more key element.No damaged goods from fighting nonsensical, non-defensive "wars" and pissing away money to make such a farce never ending.

 

[westwall]

You are not a middle of the roader. You are hard core lefty. That being said, utopia is a world where those who wish to work are rewarded for their efforts. Where crime and disease don't exist, and where people can do what they want, with who they want, when they want.

Only in uber conservative US am I considered a leftie of any description. You do realise that the US version of conservatism is way far to the right of any other conservatism in the western world - France, Germany, Aust, Canada, UK, NZ. It's not that I am far to the left, it is that you are far to the right.

I have many conservative planks. Many. Against abortion. Against affirmative action. Believe in a social safety net at the bottom of the cliff, not a hammock.

If you are collectivist, you are leftist. I am becoming more right wing, as in no government. Not fascist, that's leftwing because it is collective in nature, no I becoming more anarchist as I get older.

Government is power. Power to either help people, or abuse them. The historical record shows that overall governments have been far more abusive than helpful.

 

[Blues Man]

IDGAf about "society"

My perfect world is 100 acres with no neighbors in sight. A nice Craftsman style home about 2000 sq f with a barn that will house my music studio and workshop and store my tools and toys. a nice garden and greenhouse for my wife.

Full off the grid capability

 

[flacaltenn]

Not sure what Bill Gates has to do with anything.

Bill Gates has EVERYTHING to do with it... He's one of those awful "self made" "self reliant" people that --- IN YOUR MIND --- is just out for himself and selfish... The people that know that "risk in life" is to be MANAGED -- not purged are the ones that CAN contribute more to society...

Just like the fact that people "not self reliant" are not really in a POSITION to help anyone else...

I don't think these risk takers and self reliant people should be taken out of ANY Utopian wet dream as in the meme you posted.. Because WITHOUT them -- we wouldn't all be able to buy ladders and peck bushels... And instead would crawling over one another to get the apples..