What Does The US Stand For?

[Dr Grump]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By whom? Obama ignores and insults longstanding allies, and cowtows to enemies.

Who has he insulted and who has he bowed down to. List please...

 

[L.K.Eder]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By whom? Obama ignores and insults longstanding allies, and cowtows to enemies.

Who has he insulted and who has he bowed down to. List please...

this will be delicious.

 

[Dr Grump]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By dictators, thugs and murderers.

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

 

[Neser Boha]

I agree with the sentence #3 ... U.S. NEVER lived up to all its own self-congratulatory hype. The rest reads as if you were trying to find some sort of lost 'pride' in your own nation. The U.S. has always been an empire acting only and solely on its own self-interest. That's just a fact. And that's a fact for every single country around the world, self-interest is the word, not matter how they try to dress it up.

Well I do not mean to overstate the purity of this nation.

But in comparison to the motives of this nation (say in the 50s) I'd say we're getting worse, much worse as an empire building nation.

But really, I think the empire we're really building now to be very different than the empires of the past.

For one thing, nations won't be important.

The empire being built now is based on CLASS not nationality.

And you and I will NOT be real citizens of that empire.

We will be serfs serving it at best.

And that is actually a worse state of affairs than the empire that America was creating for the first 250 or so hears of its existence.

Despite all its flaws, the murder of the Indians, slavery, sexism, Jim Crow laws and so forth, the America of my father's generation was less toxic to mankind (and to the citizens of this nation) than the America we live in now.

THAT was my point.

Not that America was some mythical Camelot, but merely that it's worse and getting worse than it once was.

ROFLMNAO... SWEET MOTHER!

Define this EMPIRE! What are the elements of the American Empire?

Now here's how this is going to go... I've specifically set forth the challenge for you to SPECIFY THE ELEMENTS OF THE ETHERAL EMPIRE TO WHICH YOU'VE REPEATEDLY REFERRED... TO WHICH, IN RESPONSE, YOU'LL NOW NOT SPEAK TO ANY ACTUAL SPECIFICS... and this be a result of there actually being no American Empire... the result of which will be your CONCEDING, TO ME, that your little rant here, Ed, amounts to little more than more of the same anti-American BULLSHIT which is typical of the Moderate, centrist, mainstream Progressive.

But... feel free to throw something unexpected...

Simply calling anyone that criticizes the United States' policies past and present 'anti-American' does not constitute an argument. It's just a bitter spittle of a man that lacks any critical thought. That, or the rich fumes of your fetid nationalism are clouding your judgment.

(Oh man, now I'm giving you way too much credit and entirely too much attention. Don't read too much into it, I'm simply bored.)

 

[L.K.Eder]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By dictators, thugs and murderers.

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

xenoclown has read it on a stamp, be afraid, he can teach history on college level.

 

[The T]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By dictators, thugs and murderers.

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

And *YOU* know damned well that isn't what the poster was stating.

 

[Xenophon]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By dictators, thugs and murderers.

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

If you say so.

 

[Dr Grump]

By dictators, thugs and murderers.

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

And *YOU* know damned well that isn't what the poster was stating.

What was he stating? We can only talk about nations that are now in dialogue with the US who used to really dislike you, but now there is discourse happening (which you righties see as kowtowing for some strange reason, but in the real world it's called diplomacy), they are now considered 'friends' of the US? But we can't talk about how the US standings under Bush were less than favourable with nations like NZ, Aust, France, Britain, Germany, Scandinavia etc, and now they are good, are somehow irrelevant to the argument? How disingenuous...

 

[Dr Grump]

If you say so.

Glad you are backing up your empty rhetoric....

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Huh? Which perfection did I conjure that does not exist?

That would be #3... and to help ya through it; I highlighted the specifics above...



Well I'm gonna have to disagree with ya on that one, too...



So in short, you're conceding the point, despite the flaccid dissemblence... That works for me...

However, it's not like this point needs being made ... by now it's tantamount to beating a dead horse.

Well it's your horse... It's not how I'd treat it, but that's just me.

Pubes, I hate to break it to ya, but words do have meanings and just randomly stringing them together without knowing those meanings simply won't work for you.

Hey that's a great point... So lets use it on your next sentence and see how your work stands up to your own stated standard:

I don't need to 'dissemble' to show your immense idiocy and lack of basic logic and for most folks on USMB I don't even have to point it out.

ROFLMNAO...

Well, I don't know who suggested that 'you need to dissemble to show your immense idiocy and lack of basic logic', or why ya felt that doing so might be a good idea; but that statement; the entire post, is nothing BUT dissemblance of the pure variety...

The fact is that you seem to be capable of nothing BUT DISSEMBLING... and with all things considered... it's fairly clear that you've little to no understanding what dissemblance means...

On top of THAT: 'and for most folks on USMB' is a blatant appeal to popularity... OKA: Argumentum ad populum; which is a logical fallacy... thus an invalid form of reasoning; thus is illogical... Ergo, such is a CLASSIC demonstration of a 'lack of logic' on your part.

Which if you're keeping track, demonstrates that you are in violation of everyone of the fundamental grievances which you've repeatedly come to lament; and ya hit every one ya laid out in just that one little sentence.

You truly seem to have a problem with basic reading comprehension and that I'm not saying in order to make light of the situation.

LOL... Well if you can show where I've failed to comprehend anything written here, I'll readily cop to it. I'd only predict that you'll have no more success in substantiating that rant, than ya have in the rest of this exchange.

And as always, where you fail to substaintiate your position; you will be conceding to me, that you're a deceitful little ignoramous...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Well I do not mean to overstate the purity of this nation.

But in comparison to the motives of this nation (say in the 50s) I'd say we're getting worse, much worse as an empire building nation.

But really, I think the empire we're really building now to be very different than the empires of the past.

For one thing, nations won't be important.

The empire being built now is based on CLASS not nationality.

And you and I will NOT be real citizens of that empire.

We will be serfs serving it at best.

And that is actually a worse state of affairs than the empire that America was creating for the first 250 or so hears of its existence.

Despite all its flaws, the murder of the Indians, slavery, sexism, Jim Crow laws and so forth, the America of my father's generation was less toxic to mankind (and to the citizens of this nation) than the America we live in now.

THAT was my point.

Not that America was some mythical Camelot, but merely that it's worse and getting worse than it once was.

ROFLMNAO... SWEET MOTHER!

Define this EMPIRE! What are the elements of the American Empire?

Now here's how this is going to go... I've specifically set forth the challenge for you to SPECIFY THE ELEMENTS OF THE ETHERAL EMPIRE TO WHICH YOU'VE REPEATEDLY REFERRED... TO WHICH, IN RESPONSE, YOU'LL NOW NOT SPEAK TO ANY ACTUAL SPECIFICS... and this be a result of there actually being no American Empire... the result of which will be your CONCEDING, TO ME, that your little rant here, Ed, amounts to little more than more of the same anti-American BULLSHIT which is typical of the Moderate, centrist, mainstream Progressive.

But... feel free to throw something unexpected...

Simply calling anyone that criticizes the United States' policies past and present 'anti-American' does not constitute an argument.

And that is a GREAT, albeit irrelevant point... As no one in this thread has 'simply called anyone that criticizes the US policies past and present anti-American'...

But to follow the spirit of your tact, I'd point out that Chevy's failure to release the new Z28 is a collasal failure of current GM management.

 

[ekrem]

(...)But Syrian dissident Ahed Al-Hendi sympathizes with the thought.
(...)

When I am not travelling to Germany due to work reasons, I live on Syrian-Turkish border.
I have contact with Syrians. Out of Arabs, they are people resembling Turkish society most.
Maybe Syrian administration is authoritarian, but its society is open-minded.
The article mentions a dissident: There is no reason to become dissident out of no reason.
Syria opened also by far most its gate for Iraqi refugees after 2003.

Engaging Syria is the right policy. Blackmailing Syria serves only Israelian snake course around peace negotiations with Syria. That would mean redeployment of Israel out of Golan, something it is not willing to do.

 

[The T]

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

And *YOU* know damned well that isn't what the poster was stating.

What was he stating? We can only talk about nations that are now in dialogue with the US who used to really dislike you, but now there is discourse happening (which you righties see as kowtowing for some strange reason, but in the real world it's called diplomacy), they are now considered 'friends' of the US? But we can't talk about how the US standings under Bush were less than favourable with nations like NZ, Aust, France, Britain, Germany, Scandinavia etc, and now they are good, are somehow irrelevant to the argument? How disingenuous...

Who gives a FUCK about NZ and Autralia? You seem to be stuck in your own little world Grump, and speak from that perspective.

I am speaking, as was Xeno [If I may be so presumptive], about what the Statists were so damned worried of during the Bush years and them calling him Cowboy politician...and his approach to Diplomacy.

And how they fretted about our enemies..."all we have to do is understand the hatred"...followed by choruses of Kumbaya.

yeah that's ALL they were worried of...WHY our enemies hated us...and BY GOD we have to get our enemies back in the tent by just merely stating that we understood them...as they continued to bomb us, as they contiued to cut the heads off Journalists and post them on the Internet...

Precisely because WE [BUSH] had had enough and went after them...

Your pantaloons got in a bunch.

Fast Foward Obama...

He's done nothing but irritate, snub, and ignore our friends...and embrace enemies.

Ignore protocol, and BOW to every despot he come across. Tell our enemies..."hey you don't have NUKES? OK. Attack us...and you won't be lit up..."

Yep. Some fuckin' FINE diplomacy there...our enemies are licking their chops...

Where has that bit of 'Diplomacy' Gotten us? Our friends are angry, and our enemies are LAUGHING now.

Yeah fine work from this administration. They've done more to put us back decades to the Carter years when those regimes (and ONE that still survives [IRAN], continues to laugh).

But you are quick to sing Kumbaya still...Obama's solution is just as Achmedinijhad quaintly put it..."WET"...a POTUS that needs to 'dry off' before he enters the world he knows ZERO about.

And here you rejoice. I accuse you of being typical, naieve, and blind.

 

[Xenophon]

If you say so.

Glad you are backing up your empty rhetoric....

As always, you have it wrong, I simply accept yours as your only answer.

 

[del]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

By dictators, thugs and murderers.

Europe, Aust and NZ are run by dictators, thugs and murderers? Go figure...

europe's not a country, mr palin.

 

[jillian]

If you say so.

Glad you are backing up your empty rhetoric....

As always, you have it wrong, I simply accept yours as your only answer.

he's generally much more attuned to reality than you, xeno... much as i like you. your politics have gotten pretty fringy.

 

[jeffrockit]

The US is liked a lot more around the globe now....

Proof?

By who? The dictators? Our previous allies?

Maybe the world likes that our present gov has posted a giant "KICK ME" sign on the taxpayers, and is welcoming the UN to tax us and write our laws.

They like the US more because 2 years ago, when polled, they were asked if they would like a weaker America. All answered yes and with Obama in office that is exactly what we have. With that in mind, I guess we are liked better around the world.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

That would be #3... and to help ya through it; I highlighted the specifics above...



Well I'm gonna have to disagree with ya on that one, too...



So in short, you're conceding the point, despite the flaccid dissemblence... That works for me...



Well it's your horse... It's not how I'd treat it, but that's just me.

Pubes, I hate to break it to ya, but words do have meanings and just randomly stringing them together without knowing those meanings simply won't work for you.

Hey that's a great point... So lets use it on your next sentence and see how your work stands up to your own stated standard:

I don't need to 'dissemble' to show your immense idiocy and lack of basic logic and for most folks on USMB I don't even have to point it out.

ROFLMNAO...

Well, I don't know who suggested that 'you need to dissemble to show your immense idiocy and lack of basic logic', or why ya felt that doing so might be a good idea; but that statement; the entire post, is nothing BUT dissemblance of the pure variety...

The fact is that you seem to be capable of nothing BUT DISSEMBLING... and with all things considered... it's fairly clear that you've little to no understanding what dissemblance means...

On top of THAT: 'and for most folks on USMB' is a blatant appeal to popularity... OKA: Argumentum ad populum; which is a logical fallacy... thus an invalid form of reasoning; thus is illogical... Ergo, such is a CLASSIC demonstration of a 'lack of logic' on your part.

Which if you're keeping track, demonstrates that you are in violation of everyone of the fundamental grievances which you've repeatedly come to lament; and ya hit every one ya laid out in just that one little sentence.

You truly seem to have a problem with basic reading comprehension and that I'm not saying in order to make light of the situation.

LOL... Well if you can show where I've failed to comprehend anything written here, I'll readily cop to it. I'd only predict that you'll have no more success in substantiating that rant, than ya have in the rest of this exchange.

And as always, where you fail to substaintiate your position; you will be conceding to me, that you're a deceitful little ignoramous...

Ok, So this is settled then...

Ya did the best ya could.

 

[Dr Grump]

Who gives a FUCK about NZ and Autralia? You seem to be stuck in your own little world Grump, and speak from that perspective.

No, I speak from a world perspective. Unlike most Yanks, almost all NZers and Aussies have passports and have been around the world. Just because you're a close-minded neocon whackjob, don't put your worldview or lack thereof on me, Sunshine.

I am speaking, as was Xeno [If I may be so presumptive], about what the Statists were so damned worried of during the Bush years and them calling him Cowboy politician...and his approach to Diplomacy.

And how they fretted about our enemies..."all we have to do is understand the hatred"...followed by choruses of Kumbaya.

It is nothing but an urban myth that those of us who were against the war wanted to "understand" the Taliban, AQ or any other of those losers. We saw a bigger picture, you saw instant gratification and revenge. And here we are talking about Bush's war, and somehow it is now Obama's problem/fault. Let me put it this way, the fact you guys are going nowhere in Afghanistan (and I mean making the country right as opposed to pulling out) is of no surprise to me. I stated this seven years ago on messageboards. Ditto Iraq.

Bush IS a cowboy politician. In fact, I think he was a marionette to Cheney's puppetmaster.

yeah that's ALL they were worried of...WHY our enemies hated us...and BY GOD we have to get our enemies back in the tent by just merely stating that we understood them...as they continued to bomb us, as they contiued to cut the heads off Journalists and post them on the Internet...

Precisely because WE [BUSH] had had enough and went after them...

No, you had to leave them alone. Let's pretend there were Saudi airbases in Missouri, Texas, Montana or Maine. You think those populations would be sitting around going "yee haw'? You think if the Saudi's then bombed the shit out of Ohio and Florida making a tonne of collateral damage YOU (and I do mean YOU personally) would sit on your hands doing nothing? What would you do with my scenario? Oh, and to add a little spice to the argument, just let's pretend that those Islamic airbases were invited onto your soil by a dictatorial govt in DC? Still feel Ok about it?

And they went after YOU because they'd had enough of YOU interferring in their political system - not to mention I'm betting a tonne of those "insurgents" and "terrorists" prior to the bombings were anything but. If you wife or daughter had been killed as collatoral damage what would you do? (rhetorical question - going by your avatar and personality I know EXACTLY what you would do)

He's done nothing but irritate, snub, and ignore our friends...and embrace enemies.
Ignore protocol, and BOW to every despot he come across. Tell our enemies..."hey you don't have NUKES? OK. Attack us...and you won't be lit up..."
Yep. Some fuckin' FINE diplomacy there...our enemies are licking their chops...

Where has that bit of 'Diplomacy' Gotten us? Our friends are angry, and our enemies are LAUGHING now.

You are delusional. I asked Xeno and I'll ask you,. Name allies you have fucked off? For every one you have fucked off, I'll give you TEN who are more happy under the current regime. Name apparent enemies he has embraced. You and Xeno have both failed miserably. Empty rhetoric and intellectual dishonesty at its worst.

What enemies are laughing? What friends are angry? European countries? Nope. NZ? Nope? Aust? Nope....your turn....

Yeah fine work from this administration. They've done more to put us back decades to the Carter years when those regimes (and ONE that still survives [IRAN], continues to laugh).

But you are quick to sing Kumbaya still...Obama's solution is just as Achmedinijhad quaintly put it..."WET"...a POTUS that needs to 'dry off' before he enters the world he knows ZERO about.

And here you rejoice. I accuse you of being typical, naieve, and blind.

So far your argument consists of
1) Empty rhetoric
2) No facts to back up your argument
3) Unnecessary fearmongering
4) Lack of understanding of even the most basic concepts of diplomacy.

You obviously have little or no interest in diplomacy. You are of the "shoot first and ask questions later" brigade. All that gets you is 9-11. Happy with that outcome?

 

[Dr Grump]

If you say so.

Glad you are backing up your empty rhetoric....

As always, you have it wrong, I simply accept yours as your only answer.

I would just settle for an answer. I don't expect one though, because I know deep down you don't have one. Just stirring the pot...

...have at it then...