What do you think of this idea?; can you find anything bad about it?

[emilynghiem]

It is not a matter of posting suggestions that will make it work ... You just don't call the baker to come fix your plumbing.

It doesn't matter that your plumbing needs fixing ... The baker is not going to be able to do it correctly.
It doesn't mean that you don't want to fix your plumbing if you don't call the baker to come fix it.
How about the baker bakes cakes, the plumber fixes plumbing ... And the fricken teachers teach their damn classes.

.

I AGREE BlackSand
the COUNSELORS do the counseling.
If they are all trained on the same Constitutional principles and ethics you cited
and they mentor teams of parents and students in "peer support and mediation"
people can solve their own problems directly. This reduces risk or prevents abuses and crimes that require the state to step in.

Anonymous is on the right track
and it will take citizens involved to make sure it meets and doesn't violate rights or standards, as you said.
If done right, it should HELP everyone (teachers and police included) to do their jobs by keeping the personal problems
out of the public and teach/train/assist families to solve these for themselves. It can be part of the educational community.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Bingo!!!!!

 

[BlackSand]

???? BlackSand

Why not HELP teachers focus
by having the ==>COUNSELORS<== do their jobs?

By preventing disruption or interruption with students,
the teachers can teach better. The students can FOCUS on studies.
What a concept!!!

the peer counseling helps student confidence and morale.
they perform better with support.

Look at the NMVI program that turned kids in a poor district with 2/3 having incarcerated parents,
into college-bound students with scholarships:
Smiley High grad who beat odds wins national award - Houston Chronicle

This is an EXTREME case, where even troubled students in a corrupt school district trying to fail them
managed to excel because they had support of family- and community-based programs to SUCCEED.

The school's job is to teach children the academic skills they need to succeed ... Not to counsel them.
They are not doing their job now ... And don't need to work on anything else until they get that right.

.

 

[BlackSand]

I AGREE BlackSand
the COUNSELORS do the counseling.
If they are all trained on the same Constitutional principles and ethics you cited
and they mentor teams of parents and students in "peer support and mediation"
people can solve their own problems directly. This reduces risk or prevents abuses and crimes that require the state to step in.

Anonymous is on the right track
and it will take citizens involved to make sure it meets and doesn't violate rights or standards, as you said.
If done right, it should HELP everyone (teachers and police included) to do their jobs by keeping the personal problems
out of the public and teach/train/assist families to solve these for themselves. It can be part of the educational community.

The point you keep coming back to is ... "if it is done right".
The point I keep trying to make is that they are not doing what they are already supposed to be doing correctly.

It doesn't mean that I don't wish things were better.
It doesn't mean that things couldn't be done better.

It means that we need to fix what is hurting all the children and they are not doing correctly ... Before we start monkeying around with more responsibilities.

.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uncensored2008 Thanks for your detailed explanation.

NO this isn't about violating those rights, it's about teaching and counseling people NOT to have
their "rights freedom and equal protections violated" their "right to security in their persons houses and effects"
If children are being violated they need to learn their rights!

What you are arguing is basically what people NEED to be taught to defend their rights from abuse.
So this IS what we need, THAT level of "civics education on Constitutional protections" and what
are the rights and procedures. All parents, students, citizens etc. need to have an agreement on these
basic rights so NOBODY gets away with violations. EXACTLY!!!

It is not up to the state to decide how children are to be raised. Should the state decide that Mormonism is abuse and parents NEED to be taught not to share such faith? Should the state decide that support of Capitalism is abuse and children NEED to be taught how to embrace a totalitarian, collective system?

The state stays out of the business of the family, this is the ONLY rational agreement people can make. We have laws to protect against abuse and punish abusers.

There is a TV show on called "The Slap," which deals with the idea that slapping a child is abuse. I haven't watched the show because the premise is highly offensive. But I can imagine a system such as yours resulting in a parent who slaps a sassing child is arrested and the state kidnapping the child. We have become a society where others think they are entitled to second guess the discipline of children and have our rulers step in when they decide that they don't like the way other people raise their kids.

Children are not property of the state.

 

[emilynghiem]

Uncensored2008 Thanks for your detailed explanation.

NO this isn't about violating those rights, it's about teaching and counseling people NOT to have
their "rights freedom and equal protections violated" their "right to security in their persons houses and effects"
If children are being violated they need to learn their rights!

What you are arguing is basically what people NEED to be taught to defend their rights from abuse.
So this IS what we need, THAT level of "civics education on Constitutional protections" and what
are the rights and procedures. All parents, students, citizens etc. need to have an agreement on these
basic rights so NOBODY gets away with violations. EXACTLY!!!

It is not up to the state to decide how children are to be raised. Should the state decide that Mormonism is abuse and parents NEED to be taught not to share such faith? Should the state decide that support of Capitalism is abuse and children NEED to be taught how to embrace a totalitarian, collective system?

The state stays out of the business of the family, this is the ONLY rational agreement people can make. We have laws to protect against abuse and punish abusers.

There is a TV show on called "The Slap," which deals with the idea that slapping a child is abuse. I haven't watched the show because the premise is highly offensive. But I can imagine a system such as yours resulting in a parent who slaps a sassing child is arrested and the state kidnapping the child. We have become a society where others think they are entitled to second guess the discipline of children and have our rulers step in when they decide that they don't like the way other people raise their kids.

Children are not property of the state.

I AGREE that's why I'm saying communities need to take back control of school programs.
And this is a good way to ask for that to come about, to get all parents like you
who want a direct say and change how school programs are set up.

All that you are saying should be taught and enforced, where the personal issues are handled by
the families and community EFFECTIVELY So they stay OUT of the state by PREVENTING abuse. Exactly!

 

[emilynghiem]

I AGREE BlackSand
the COUNSELORS do the counseling.
If they are all trained on the same Constitutional principles and ethics you cited
and they mentor teams of parents and students in "peer support and mediation"
people can solve their own problems directly. This reduces risk or prevents abuses and crimes that require the state to step in.

Anonymous is on the right track
and it will take citizens involved to make sure it meets and doesn't violate rights or standards, as you said.
If done right, it should HELP everyone (teachers and police included) to do their jobs by keeping the personal problems
out of the public and teach/train/assist families to solve these for themselves. It can be part of the educational community.

The point you keep coming back to is ... "if it is done right".
The point I keep trying to make is that they are not doing what they are already supposed to be doing correctly.

It doesn't mean that I don't wish things were better.
It doesn't mean that things couldn't be done better.

It means that we need to fix what is hurting all the children and they are not doing correctly ... Before we start monkeying around with more responsibilities.

.

BlackSand
so if the schools are ABUSING relations and money,
then the same process of addressing and correcting ABUSES
the same conflict resolution and community-based reforms
can change those problems, too! All problems can be addressed this way
by organizing local communities around a system for resolving grievances, concerns, problems BEFORE they get worse.

 

[BlackSand]

I AGREE that's why I'm saying communities need to take back control of school programs.
And this is a good way to ask for that to come about, to get all parents like you
who want a direct say and change how school programs are set up.

All that you are saying should be taught and enforced, where the personal issues are handled by
the families and community EFFECTIVELY So they stay OUT of the state by PREVENTING abuse. Exactly!

Communities have no control over the schools because they are federally and state mandated ... That is what you get in public education.
Parents have a say-so in how the schools are set up by who they vote for.

.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Sonny Clark and ChrisL
Nobody else reading this thread is posting suggestions in support of how to make it work.
Sonny Clark since you are against the abuse of "immunity" to cover up sex abuse, can you post suggestions to Anon?
Can you help Anon write letters to promote this idea, but in a way that will work and not cause problems as pointed out here.

ChrisL doesn't Anonymous have good ideas? is Anon on ignore so nobody nice and supporting is reading this thread?

It is not a matter of posting suggestions that will make it work ... You just don't call the baker to come fix your plumbing.

It doesn't matter that your plumbing needs fixing ... The baker is not going to be able to do it correctly.
It doesn't mean that you don't want to fix your plumbing if you don't call the baker to come fix it.
How about the baker bakes cakes, the plumber fixes plumbing ... And the teachers teach their students the material they are supposed to be teaching.

.

Sometimes the more attention given a problem, the better chance of positive action. Child abuse within the home is a very touchy subject due to the fact that it's almost impossible to detect unless the child is questioned, or complains about home issues. Not every home has social workers visiting on a regular basis. What are the warning signs, and who do we get to investigate? What are the proper steps to take if and when abuse is suspected? Should we prove abuse before removing a child from the parents? In the past, many mistakes have been made where children, or a child, has been removed from their home, and later discovered no abuse actually occurred. In my opinion, both the parents and the family unit must be equally considered unless proof positive can be established first. It is very cruel and sickening to accuse parents or a family member of sexual abuse without proof positive. We've all read about it over the years, and tears at one's heart when a family member is wrongfully accused of sexual abuse of another family member.

When a child is sexually abused outside the family unit, the situation becomes easier to investigate and with less disruptions. Families support each other, family members equally share the pain, and healing becomes a joint effort with those professionals trained to deal with child sexual abuse. Whether it's sexual abuse within the family unit or outside the family unit, steps must be taken to ensure that the wrong person or persons aren't wrongfully accused. This has been handled badly in the past, and no doubt it'll happen again. One possible solution might be to an education process in a neutral environment such as community centers, or summer camps. Some counselors can be properly trained in as little as a two year college course. Other specialists might require a full four year degree. But, in my opinion, the investment would be well worth the expense to the general public.

It seems that we have advisors and counselors for everything else, I see no reason for us not to invest in programs to protect our innocent children from predators. I agree that our teachers have their plates full already, and it wouldn't be a good idea to add extra burdens that may take away from education. This is not to say that children being sexually abuse is not important, but it's saying that the classroom environment may not be the best place to deal with such a touchy subject. The most important aspect, is detection. We need to first develop guidelines and methods for early detection of abuse, and then carefully test the methods before enacting a broad set of rules that may or may not work in every case. This may take a lot of time, but what are the alternatives?

Properly trained counselors, and family units openly discussing abuse, may be sufficient enough to decrease sexual abuse among children, and better educate all of us as to what works and what doesn't work. There are no quick fixes that I can see, so why not start by open discussion among the family unit, educating and properly training counselors, and creating comfort zones where children aren't intimidated, embarrassed, or afraid to ask for help. Community centers, summer camps, and even designated family oriented events where time is taken for open discussions on family matters, could provide the necessary environment comfortable for everyone.

One thing is for sure, children can't be helped, and we can't prevent the shameful act, unless we start somewhere addressing this issue, and together, working on solutions that are fair and beneficial to all concerned. Remember, children are dependent, they depend on us to protect them, and to give them every opportunity to grow up in a normal and loving family environment. We, as adults and parents, need to accept the responsibility to make the first step in the prevention of sexual abuse among our precious children.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Sonny Clark and ChrisL
Nobody else reading this thread is posting suggestions in support of how to make it work.
Sonny Clark since you are against the abuse of "immunity" to cover up sex abuse, can you post suggestions to Anon?
Can you help Anon write letters to promote this idea, but in a way that will work and not cause problems as pointed out here.

ChrisL doesn't Anonymous have good ideas? is Anon on ignore so nobody nice and supporting is reading this thread?

I just wrote a response to the article. It's posted in this thread.

 

[BlackSand]

Sometimes the more attention given a problem, the better chance of positive action. Child abuse within the home is a very touchy subject due to the fact that it's almost impossible to detect unless the child is questioned, or complains about home issues. Not every home has social workers visiting on a regular basis. What are the warning signs, and who do we get to investigate? What are the proper steps to take if and when abuse is suspected? Should we prove abuse before removing a child from the parents? In the past, many mistakes have been made where children, or a child, has been removed from their home, and later discovered no abuse actually occurred. In my opinion, both the parents and the family unit must be equally considered unless proof positive can be established first. It is very cruel and sickening to accuse parents or a family member of sexual abuse without proof positive. We've all read about it over the years, and tears at one's heart when a family member is wrongfully accused of sexual abuse of another family member.

When a child is sexually abused outside the family unit, the situation becomes easier to investigate and with less disruptions. Families support each other, family members equally share the pain, and healing becomes a joint effort with those professionals trained to deal with child sexual abuse. Whether it's sexual abuse within the family unit or outside the family unit, steps must be taken to ensure that the wrong person or persons aren't wrongfully accused. This has been handled badly in the past, and no doubt it'll happen again. One possible solution might be to an education process in a neutral environment such as community centers, or summer camps. Some counselors can be properly trained in as little as a two year college course. Other specialists might require a full four year degree. But, in my opinion, the investment would be well worth the expense to the general public.

It seems that we have advisors and counselors for everything else, I see no reason for us not to invest in programs to protect our innocent children from predators. I agree that our teachers have their plates full already, and it wouldn't be a good idea to add extra burdens that may take away from education. This is not to say that children being sexually abuse is not important, but it's saying that the classroom environment may not be the best place to deal with such a touchy subject. The most important aspect, is detection. We need to first develop guidelines and methods for early detection of abuse, and then carefully test the methods before enacting a broad set of rules that may or may not work in every case. This may take a lot of time, but what are the alternatives?

Properly trained counselors, and family units openly discussing abuse, may be sufficient enough to decrease sexual abuse among children, and better educate all of us as to what works and what doesn't work. There are no quick fixes that I can see, so why not start by open discussion among the family unit, educating and properly training counselors, and creating comfort zones where children aren't intimidated, embarrassed, or afraid to ask for help. Community centers, summer camps, and even designated family oriented events where time is taken for open discussions on family matters, could provide the necessary environment comfortable for everyone.

One thing is for sure, children can't be helped, and we can't prevent the shameful act, unless we start somewhere addressing this issue, and together, working on solutions that are fair and beneficial to all concerned. Remember, children are dependent, they depend on us to protect them, and to give them every opportunity to grow up in a normal and loving family environment. We, as adults and parents, need to accept the responsibility to make the first step in the prevention of sexual abuse among our precious children.

You put a lot of thought and effort in that and I can tell that you care.

At the same time ... I am pretty sure you are never going to understand that it is the school's job to teach children the academic skills.
You probably are not going to understand that the schools aren't doing their job and abusing every child in the process.

I commend your effort and compassion ... It will be nice when you start caring about all the children.

I mean no offense either ... It is a "have you stopped beating your wife" scenario.
If you object to the new and improved police state ... Then you are wrong to start with in the eyes of some folks ... I get that.

.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Sometimes the more attention given a problem, the better chance of positive action. Child abuse within the home is a very touchy subject due to the fact that it's almost impossible to detect unless the child is questioned, or complains about home issues. Not every home has social workers visiting on a regular basis. What are the warning signs, and who do we get to investigate? What are the proper steps to take if and when abuse is suspected? Should we prove abuse before removing a child from the parents? In the past, many mistakes have been made where children, or a child, has been removed from their home, and later discovered no abuse actually occurred. In my opinion, both the parents and the family unit must be equally considered unless proof positive can be established first. It is very cruel and sickening to accuse parents or a family member of sexual abuse without proof positive. We've all read about it over the years, and tears at one's heart when a family member is wrongfully accused of sexual abuse of another family member.

When a child is sexually abused outside the family unit, the situation becomes easier to investigate and with less disruptions. Families support each other, family members equally share the pain, and healing becomes a joint effort with those professionals trained to deal with child sexual abuse. Whether it's sexual abuse within the family unit or outside the family unit, steps must be taken to ensure that the wrong person or persons aren't wrongfully accused. This has been handled badly in the past, and no doubt it'll happen again. One possible solution might be to an education process in a neutral environment such as community centers, or summer camps. Some counselors can be properly trained in as little as a two year college course. Other specialists might require a full four year degree. But, in my opinion, the investment would be well worth the expense to the general public.

It seems that we have advisors and counselors for everything else, I see no reason for us not to invest in programs to protect our innocent children from predators. I agree that our teachers have their plates full already, and it wouldn't be a good idea to add extra burdens that may take away from education. This is not to say that children being sexually abuse is not important, but it's saying that the classroom environment may not be the best place to deal with such a touchy subject. The most important aspect, is detection. We need to first develop guidelines and methods for early detection of abuse, and then carefully test the methods before enacting a broad set of rules that may or may not work in every case. This may take a lot of time, but what are the alternatives?

Properly trained counselors, and family units openly discussing abuse, may be sufficient enough to decrease sexual abuse among children, and better educate all of us as to what works and what doesn't work. There are no quick fixes that I can see, so why not start by open discussion among the family unit, educating and properly training counselors, and creating comfort zones where children aren't intimidated, embarrassed, or afraid to ask for help. Community centers, summer camps, and even designated family oriented events where time is taken for open discussions on family matters, could provide the necessary environment comfortable for everyone.

One thing is for sure, children can't be helped, and we can't prevent the shameful act, unless we start somewhere addressing this issue, and together, working on solutions that are fair and beneficial to all concerned. Remember, children are dependent, they depend on us to protect them, and to give them every opportunity to grow up in a normal and loving family environment. We, as adults and parents, need to accept the responsibility to make the first step in the prevention of sexual abuse among our precious children.

You put a lot of thought and effort in that and I can tell that you care.

At the same time ... I am pretty sure you are never going to understand that it is the school's job to teach children the academic skills.
You probably are not going to understand that the schools aren't doing their job and abusing every child in the process.

I commend your effort and compassion ... It will be nice when you start caring about all the children.

.

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

 

[dblack]

It takes a government...

 

[BlackSand]

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

The school system is the school system ... If they cannot properly manage the classroom ... Then there is no reason to believe they would fair any better on the counseling side.

What part of that don't you understand ... Maybe an analogy will help.
If your child cannot ride a bicycle ... It would be pretty safe to assume getting them a motorcycle would be a stupid idea.

.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

The school system is the school system ... If they cannot properly manage the classroom ... Then there is no reason to believe they would fair any better on the counseling side.

What part of that don't you understand ... Maybe an analogy will help.
If your child cannot ride a bicycle ... It would be pretty safe to assume getting them a motorcycle would be a stupid idea.

.

I have never said that the classroom is for anything except teaching school subjects. I have NOT said that the classroom is for counseling, nor that it should be for counseling. Please go back and read what I DID say, and show where I have said or implied anything differently. Just curious, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Obviously so. I have never said they should be counselors, never. Please try reading comprehension, it may help you on this forum.

 

[BlackSand]

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

The school system is the school system ... If they cannot properly manage the classroom ... Then there is no reason to believe they would fair any better on the counseling side.

What part of that don't you understand ... Maybe an analogy will help.
If your child cannot ride a bicycle ... It would be pretty safe to assume getting them a motorcycle would be a stupid idea.

.

I have never said that the classroom is for anything except teaching school subjects. I have NOT said that the classroom is for counseling, nor that it should be for counseling. Please go back and read what I DID say, and show where I have said or implied anything differently. Just curious, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Obviously so. I have never said they should be counselors, never. Please try reading comprehension, it may help you on this forum.

Did you read the OP ... Are you aware of where the intended counseling will be going on?
Do you understand that it is on school grounds ... And falls underneath school management?
Are you aware that the same management is failing in the classroom?

It is not my comprehension that needs adjusting dipshit.
You haven't said a thing that addresses the fact that the schools are failing and you want to put them in charge of abuse counselling, or at least expand their responsibilities when they cannot fulfill their current responsibilities.

.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

The school system is the school system ... If they cannot properly manage the classroom ... Then there is no reason to believe they would fair any better on the counseling side.

What part of that don't you understand ... Maybe an analogy will help.
If your child cannot ride a bicycle ... It would be pretty safe to assume getting them a motorcycle would be a stupid idea.

.

I have never said that the classroom is for anything except teaching school subjects. I have NOT said that the classroom is for counseling, nor that it should be for counseling. Please go back and read what I DID say, and show where I have said or implied anything differently. Just curious, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Obviously so. I have never said they should be counselors, never. Please try reading comprehension, it may help you on this forum.

Did you read the OP ... Are you aware of where the intended counseling will be going on?
Do you understand that it is on school grounds ... And falls underneath school management?
Are you aware that the same management is failing in the classroom?

It is not my comprehension that needs adjusting dipshit.
You haven't said a thing that addresses the fact that the schools are failing and you want to put them in charge of abuse counselling, or at least expand their responsibilities when they cannot fulfill their current responsibilities.

.

OK. For the third or fourth time, and please try to comprehend what you read this time around, thanks. I have never ever said nor implied that teachers should be counselors, never. And, you can NOT show me where I have said. Also, I have said and written about our schools failing our kids for many years now. I have written many pieces expressing my concern for the lack of education in our schools. So, don't tell me that I'm not concerned about education, or concerned about our kids. Yes, it is definitely your reading comprehension that's the problem. You continue to say that I have said some or implied something that I have NOT. And, you can NOT show anywhere where I have said nor implied that our teachers should be counselors, or that our schools are doing a good job teaching our kids. You can blow smoke until your heart is content, but you can NOT show where I have said or implied what you claim that I have said.

Please go back and read what I have said again, slowly, and then put the quote where I said or implied those things in your next comment to me, please, thanks. I have never said that teachers should expand their responsibilities. If you'll go back and read, I said that teachers have enough on their plates as it is. So, please stop saying that I have said something, or implied something, that I have NOT.

As far as the name calling, it's childish, silly, and adds absolutely nothing to this conversation. Please try to have a conversation in an adult and civil manner. Name calling and personal attacks are for kids on the school yard, not on a public forum where adults engage in discussions concerning our many socioeconomic woes. Thanks.

I have challenged you to show where I have said or implied what you have said that I did. Please do it if you can. Otherwise, please stop accusing me of saying things that I have NOT said nor implied. Thanks. And, please be adult and civil and refrain from name calling and personal attacks.

 

[emilynghiem]

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

The school system is the school system ... If they cannot properly manage the classroom ... Then there is no reason to believe they would fair any better on the counseling side.

What part of that don't you understand ... Maybe an analogy will help.
If your child cannot ride a bicycle ... It would be pretty safe to assume getting them a motorcycle would be a stupid idea.

.

I have never said that the classroom is for anything except teaching school subjects. I have NOT said that the classroom is for counseling, nor that it should be for counseling. Please go back and read what I DID say, and show where I have said or implied anything differently. Just curious, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Obviously so. I have never said they should be counselors, never. Please try reading comprehension, it may help you on this forum.

Did you read the OP ... Are you aware of where the intended counseling will be going on?
Do you understand that it is on school grounds ... And falls underneath school management?
Are you aware that the same management is failing in the classroom?

It is not my comprehension that needs adjusting dipshit.
You haven't said a thing that addresses the fact that the schools are failing and you want to put them in charge of abuse counselling, or at least expand their responsibilities when they cannot fulfill their current responsibilities.

.

Dear BlackSand
I AGREE the whole public school set up needs to be changed to reflect/represent the taxpayers paying for it.

Can we AGREE that each community should work that out, and if as you said, a STATE law change is required, then SURE each community can decide whether to buy out the land/program and flip the schools back to them.

Some communities are ready for that. Some may not be, but I AGREE there needs to be a TRACK for educating and liberating each community to take back control of its schools, and incorporate as their own campus or city, even hiring their own police and learning to manage their own districts.

I AGREE with you that community control and ownership is idea, and have brought this up to
Anonymous attention before as a SOLUTION.

I do believe public schools should be a focus, to END the problems as you point out, and I AGREE WITH YOU.

So given the extensive civics, legal and business education and training it would take for each
community district to take back administrative control of education and schools,
I can see this coming out of the same concept Anonymous proposed.

I think the problems you are pointing out
SHOULD BE ADDRESSED AND RESOLVED.

The only difference with you and me, is I believe you can start with each public school in each district
and make that the focus of reform and building community-based programs, and you don't have faith
that the public schools can be changed starting from community consensus. You cite how much the state laws, etc. have to change, which I am saying FOLLOWS from first organizing community-based consensus.

Get the communities unified, and THEN the state laws can change.
First educate the communities and organize a longterm transition plan.
THEN that can be proposed as reforms and changed through state laws as necessary.

Some minor ordinance changes CAN be implemented per district WITHOUT affecting given laws:
When I spoke with a property rights consultant, he has planned out ways that the different districts can change local ordinances by passing city ordinances first, and then letting districts or neighborhoods opt into city plans.

 

[emilynghiem]

Obviously you don't know me, nor know anything about me. I mentioned in my piece that the classroom is for education only. How much more plain can I make that statement? I mentioned the fact that we should not take away, nor distract the teachers from educating our children. So, obviously, you misread and misunderstood what I said. Please go back and re-read it and then tell me where I said the classroom and education is not important, and that teachers don't have their plates full teaching. Where are teachers abusing students? Please explain. And, for your information, I have five children, fourteen grandchildren, and two great grandchildren, all of which are dear to my heart, and always will be. I have a soft heart for children and our elderly. So, don't dare tell me that I don't care about children. Some nerve you have. What exactly do you know about me? How many times have you and I met in person? Are we drinking buddies, fishing and hunting pals?

I'll consider your comment due to ignorance and just forget it. When someone beats me down and accuses me without knowing me, or anything about me, it says way more about them than it does about me. Go back and read what I wrote, then come back and tell me where I said that the classroom is for anything other than teaching, and that teachers should do anything except teach.

The school system is the school system ... If they cannot properly manage the classroom ... Then there is no reason to believe they would fair any better on the counseling side.

What part of that don't you understand ... Maybe an analogy will help.
If your child cannot ride a bicycle ... It would be pretty safe to assume getting them a motorcycle would be a stupid idea.

The analogy I would make is that the schools already have facilities and property in the neighborhood. So either use these SITES to serve the people, or work out plans to buy them out and organize a charter school that will.

It's the same bike. It's already there. And the issue is how to use the existing bike.
[Note: some districts may be developed enough to be sharing use of a motorcycle instead of just a bike.
If that's how advanced they are, it's already there. And the issue is how to make use of what they have already.]

Where do you live BlackSand? is the whole state a huge bureaucracy of butting heads?
[Did you see the links I posted on the kind of textbook conflicts coming out of Texas? crazymaking!] I live in Houston where some schools are a huge mess and get shut down from horrible abuses, even illegal! While others are fluidly working with the local community and act like an extension of it without weird issues. So it depends on the community if they are getting motorcycle mileage out of their school, or a tricycle with flat tires.

 

[dblack]

OK. For the third or fourth time, and please try to comprehend what you read this time around, thanks. I have never ever said nor implied that teachers should be counselors, never. And, you can NOT show me where I have said. Also, I have said and written about our schools failing our kids for many years now. I have written many pieces expressing my concern for the lack of education in our schools. So, don't tell me that I'm not concerned about education, or concerned about our kids. Yes, it is definitely your reading comprehension that's the problem. You continue to say that I have said some or implied something that I have NOT. And, you can NOT show anywhere where I have said nor implied that our teachers should be counselors, or that our schools are doing a good job teaching our kids. You can blow smoke until your heart is content, but you can NOT show where I have said or implied what you claim that I have said.

Please go back and read what I have said again, slowly, and then put the quote where I said or implied those things in your next comment to me, please, thanks. I have never said that teachers should expand their responsibilities. If you'll go back and read, I said that teachers have enough on their plates as it is. So, please stop saying that I have said something, or implied something, that I have NOT.

As far as the name calling, it's childish, silly, and adds absolutely nothing to this conversation. Please try to have a conversation in an adult and civil manner. Name calling and personal attacks are for kids on the school yard, not on a public forum where adults engage in discussions concerning our many socioeconomic woes. Thanks.

I have challenged you to show where I have said or implied what you have said that I did. Please do it if you can. Otherwise, please stop accusing me of saying things that I have NOT said nor implied. Thanks. And, please be adult and civil and refrain from name calling and personal attacks.

Yeah. People get a bit worked up about issues like this and exaggerate. Yet I still find your proposal disturbing. Essentially, what you're suggesting is that we use the relationship created by public education as a wedge to inject monitoring and government oversight that ordinarily wouldn't be viable. To illustrate, if this kind of program is a justifiable use of government, why use the schools as a vehicle? Why not simply require all children to schedule semi-annual checkups with government appointed counselors?