Zone1 What do we "owe" the Homeless?

[Michelle420]

I grew up very religious. My father’s death was the last straw thst pushed me away from all organized religion. I continue to be a very Spiritual person following the path I found for myself after my dad passed away.

Sorry about your Dad. I lost my cousin, my bio dad, and my sister all in one year a few months apart from each other. It's been 10 years since my sister's suicide. Those kinds of experiences have taken quite a toll on my own personal life. So sorry for your pain.

 

[Concerned American]

I grew up very religious. My father’s death was the last straw thst pushed me away from all organized religion. I continue to be a very Spiritual person following the path I found for myself after my dad passed away.

Sounds like we have a similar opinion of organized religion.

 

[DudleySmith]

The OP mentions nothing about either religion or ethics.

Why should it? It's in the religion section, and religious people are the most charitable, especially working and middle class Christians. It's implied, and rightfully so.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

We don't "owe" them anything.

But we can choose to demonstrate empathy and compassion, and we can choose to try to help them.

Real Christians used to do that, as I recall. Not sure about that any more.

Real Christians still do.
Where do you think they get clothes, food etc.?
Many are religious charities.
Here, three of the four food banks are operated by churches.
Two of the three clothing "stores" are operated by churches.

 

[DudleySmith]

Nope. This is the religion forum. So what I said is accurate. Jesus healed people, raised people from the dead, and cast out sin/evil. There were no taxes involved in that. He lifted them up from distress and what ailed them. He had mercy and compassion.

Churches were organized to provide not just sermons but fellowship and provide social services to the 'flock', especially widows, orphans, and the elderly. That culture was what the pagans could never duplicate, and was a major reason Constantine was impressed by Christians, along with their martyrdom and strong wills.

 

[Dadoalex]

Why should it? It's in the religion section, and religious people are the most charitable, especially working and middle class Christians. It's implied, and rightfully so.

BECAUSE it's in the religion section?

 

[Foxfyre]

wow.. never heard of that. . it's a good idea.

You are in NM... would it be an invasion of privacy to ask which part?

Someone told me years ago that NM is the best state she and her husband had been to as far as how homeless people are treated. Do u think that's true? I have driven through there but never lived there.

I am in Albuquerque and don't downplay that. . I don't know that we treat our homeless any better than anybody else but there are a LOT of public, private, church based services here for them. In my opinion the public services just do hand outs and not a lot else. The private and church based services are more proactive in trying to get these people off addictive substances and encourage them to help themselves more.

Of course the excellent services for the homeless here is attracting homeless from other states so even though our homeless population remains manageable for now, the ranks are swelling so that it could soon become unmanageable. It is impossible to find verifiable numbers on it, but those working with the homeless have told me that a fairly large percentage of Albuquerque's homeless are undocumented migrants.

 

[Concerned American]

I am in Albuquerque and don't downplay that. . I don't know that we treat our homeless any better than anybody else but there are a LOT of public, private, church based services here for them. In my opinion the public services just do hand outs and not a lot else. The private and church based services are more proactive in trying to get these people off addictive substances and encourage them to help themselves more.

Of course the excellent services for the homeless here is attracting homeless from other states so even though our homeless population remains manageable for now, the ranks are swelling so that it could soon become unmanageable. It is impossible to find verifiable numbers on it, but those working with the homeless have told me that a fairly large percentage of Albuquerque's homeless are undocumented migrants.

The closest large metropolitan area to me is Spokane, WA. They have a very liberal government and focus mainly on social issues of the homeless. The spend ridiculously high amounts of tax $$ on these people with no strings. The inland NW has an amazing number of foot banks, shelters and places that provide free hot meals that are almost entirely church provided. I would say that the homeless in this area could actually gain weight. One of the most effective is the Gospel Mission. They provide lodging, meals and they employ a number of their clients in the operation of the mission. They also operate a used car lot and auto repair in which they train many of these folks in trades. I have nothing but respect for them. The Spokane city policies on the other hand, stink. I don't think tax dollars should be used to address homelessness.

 

[Leo123]

As the Smithfield shelter closure potentially pushes more to the street, advocates work to create a protective policy for unhoused people

Weekslong wait times for shelter, worries about being jailed for sleeping on the streets, the uncertainty of not knowing where to find your next meal or...

www.post-gazette.com

With the linked article, the local paper (we only have one) encourages us to be concerned about the changing circumstances of the local homeless community. One downtown shelter is closing down and the nearest alternative is a few blocks away. Incredibly one who is interviewed says that if things get any worse in Pittsburgh he might have to go elsewhere. Can we afford to lose that valuable asset?

There used to be an expression in common usage - "The Deserving Poor." The unfortunate implication is that there is another community to be addressed - the UNdeserving poor. Putting it succinctly, the undeserving poor are those for whom their wretched circumstance are thought to be caused by their own fault.

Consider which column the following people would be listed:

• Widows and orphans,
• the physically handicapped,
• crazy bastards,
• the mentally incompetent,
• substance abusers,
• people bankrupted by medical bills,
• people bankrupted by college loans to major in Ethnic or Gender Studies, and finally,
• people who are temporarily "down on their luck" (lost job, lost apartment, lost car, etc.),
• those who simply refuse to work, or to adopt Middle Class Values.

Is it even possible, I wonder to separate the two groups (deserving and otherwise) so that "we" can help the one group and tell the others to go and commit an impossible autosexual act?

As taxpayers, what do "we" owe these people, especially considering that 99% of them live in urban areas and are simply off the radar screen of anyone living outside The City?

IMO....Most of that could be cured by rescinding liberal policies such as paying women to have fatherless children. The 'policy' of underfunding the truly handicapped should be recinded. 'Crazy bastards' is a huge category and we'd have to separate the why of the craziness. Legalize certain illegal drugs. Get government out of the medical industry, give people $$$$ for medical accounts. Rescind the student loan program because it causes colleges to constantly inflate their tuition. Put Mike Rowe in charge of placing 'down on their luck' people. Put vagrants in jail.

 

[Foxfyre]

The closest large metropolitan area to me is Spokane, WA. They have a very liberal government and focus mainly on social issues of the homeless. The spend ridiculously high amounts of tax $$ on these people with no strings. The inland NW has an amazing number of foot banks, shelters and places that provide free hot meals that are almost entirely church provided. I would say that the homeless in this area could actually gain weight. One of the most effective is the Gospel Mission. They provide lodging, meals and they employ a number of their clients in the operation of the mission. They also operate a used car lot and auto repair in which they train many of these folks in trades. I have nothing but respect for them. The Spokane city policies on the other hand, stink. I don't think tax dollars should be used to address homelessness.

I have had many discussions with people who say it is immoral to require homeless people and others receiving public assistance to 'pay' for that assistance. But then I see Joy Junction (wholly private homeless shelter and soup kitchen), the Salvation Army and others creating dignity and pride by encouraging to them to be useful doing odd jobs, helping in the kitchen, whatever. Even just a simple thing like attending a church service in return for a meal and a place to sleep is a form of payment that helps people regain their dignity and sense of self worth.

As a result both organizations admit results are less than they hope, but they have been successful getting some people off the street and back into normal society.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Who OWNS the land and how did they get it?

How much of the concept of LAND OWNERSHIP comes from European culture where royal assholes can hand out titles?

The Economic Wargame is a continuation of the Military Wargame by other means.

 

[candycorn]

"The phrase “my brother’s keeper” occurs in the context of the story of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4:1-9. After the Lord God had expelled Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden for their disobedience, Cain killed his brother Abel out of jealousy that God had found Abel’s sacrifice acceptable, but He had rejected Cain’s. After the murder, the Lord, knowing full well what had happened, asked Cain where Abel was. Cain’s response was "I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?"

There is a grain of truth in this brazen lie, despite the surly response Cain offers to the God who created him. While no one is the absolute “keeper” of others in that we are not responsible for everyone’s safety when we are not present, every man is his brother’s keeper in that we are not to commit violent acts against them or allow others to do so if we can prevent it. This sort of “keeping” is something God rightfully demands of everyone, on the grounds of both justice and love. But Cain’s reply indicates a total lack of any kind of feeling for another human being—not to mention the absence of brotherly love—and the overriding presence of the kind of selfishness which kills affection and gives rise to hatred.

So are Christians to be the keepers of other Christians? Yes, in two ways. First we are not to commit acts of violence against one another. This includes violence of the tongue in the form of gossip and “quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder” (2 Corinthians 12:20). Second, we are to exhibit brotherly love toward our brothers and sisters in Christ with a tender heart and a humble mind (1 Peter 3:8). In this way, we “keep” those for whom Christ gave His life."

 

[Dekster]

I am in Albuquerque and don't downplay that. . I don't know that we treat our homeless any better than anybody else but there are a LOT of public, private, church based services here for them. In my opinion the public services just do hand outs and not a lot else. The private and church based services are more proactive in trying to get these people off addictive substances and encourage them to help themselves more.

Of course the excellent services for the homeless here is attracting homeless from other states so even though our homeless population remains manageable for now, the ranks are swelling so that it could soon become unmanageable. It is impossible to find verifiable numbers on it, but those working with the homeless have told me that a fairly large percentage of Albuquerque's homeless are undocumented migrants.

It will in short order. I am on the board of a shelter organization. None of ours are walk-in off the street shelters. Those ones in our city fill up as soon as the expand and stay that way. Mostly young white males so I assume they are mostly addicts moving from one place to another. All of our shelters are large 4-7 bedroom houses we have acquired and renovated. We do more long-term people. 1 is women; a couple are for women with kids; 1 is for the elderly; 2 are special needs people but I really want to ditch those residents because they come with special requirements and also need to be staffed 24/7 and hardly a week goes by there isn't at least one of them creating drama; 1 is for men; and 1 is a skills training center that is in proximity to the womens shelters. We also have rentals that we use to create revenue but big old houses need a lot of upkeep so I am not fond of that model.

 

[DGS49]

I am a practicing Catholic, and I give both time and money to support the homeless, and also migrants whose presence here I find politically repulsive.

But my question is rather, as an ETHICAL citizen, voting his or her conscience, should I support candidates and policies that purport to "help the homeless." Or should I use my influence to discourage substantial spending to address this intractable problem.

It occurs to me that helping the homeless has become an industry, where foundations and government agencies spend money in buckets with no tangible improvement in the problem. Indeed, it is getting worse.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am a practicing Catholic, and I give both time and money to support the homeless, and also migrants whose presence here I find politically repulsive.

But my question is rather, as an ETHICAL citizen, voting his or her conscience, should I support candidates and policies that purport to "help the homeless." Or should I use my influence to discourage substantial spending to address this intractable problem.

It occurs to me that helping the homeless has become an industry, where foundations and government agencies spend money in buckets with no tangible improvement in the problem. Indeed, it is getting worse.

That indeed is the ethical dilemma for the intellectually honest. How moral is it to make people more comfortable in their miserable situations and thereby give them less incentive to get out of it?

At the same time what moral person can turn away a hungry person and not provide them food? Can leave someone freezing outside and not help them get out of the cold? Most of us cannot be that heartless no matter how irresponsible or how much of a problem they are.

But from personal experience, I was once assistant to the Episcopal Bishop of Western Kansas and as such wore many hats carrying a lot of responsibility. (I am not Episcopalian.) The Cathedral was the first church the mostly American migrants at that time came to off the interstate and I was usually the one to deal with them. They all had similar stories. They were trying to get to a job somewhere but had been robbed, had no I.D., could not name anybody where they came from or where they were going. They were out of gas, had no money, were hungry. And no they didn't want to go the community relief center a block away (where they would be required to undergo a police background check,)

I arranged with a cafe a half block away to accept food vouchers I would give the 'hungry' transients and we would settle up the bill later. I arranged with a small gas station nearby to accept our voucher for $5 gasoline. I probably gave out a hundred of those vouchers over a period of a year. One food voucher was cashed. None of the others. A couple of the gas vouchers were used--the station owner said several tried to turn them in for cash.

It is hard not to develop prejudices in these things.

 

[frigidweirdo]

As the Smithfield shelter closure potentially pushes more to the street, advocates work to create a protective policy for unhoused people

Weekslong wait times for shelter, worries about being jailed for sleeping on the streets, the uncertainty of not knowing where to find your next meal or...

www.post-gazette.com

With the linked article, the local paper (we only have one) encourages us to be concerned about the changing circumstances of the local homeless community. One downtown shelter is closing down and the nearest alternative is a few blocks away. Incredibly one who is interviewed says that if things get any worse in Pittsburgh he might have to go elsewhere. Can we afford to lose that valuable asset?

There used to be an expression in common usage - "The Deserving Poor." The unfortunate implication is that there is another community to be addressed - the UNdeserving poor. Putting it succinctly, the undeserving poor are those for whom their wretched circumstance are thought to be caused by their own fault.

Consider which column the following people would be listed:

• Widows and orphans,
• the physically handicapped,
• crazy bastards,
• the mentally incompetent,
• substance abusers,
• people bankrupted by medical bills,
• people bankrupted by college loans to major in Ethnic or Gender Studies, and finally,
• people who are temporarily "down on their luck" (lost job, lost apartment, lost car, etc.),
• those who simply refuse to work, or to adopt Middle Class Values.

Is it even possible, I wonder to separate the two groups (deserving and otherwise) so that "we" can help the one group and tell the others to go and commit an impossible autosexual act?

As taxpayers, what do "we" owe these people, especially considering that 99% of them live in urban areas and are simply off the radar screen of anyone living outside The City?

What do you owe anyone?

Nothing really.
You can be selfish and everyone around you can be selfish and if you get into hard times, they can be like "what do we owe you? Nothing, eff off"

 

[lg325]

As far as the poor migrating from other countries to better their lives maybe a solution could be to make their home countries spend all of that aid money coming from the U.S.A. and the U.N to better their citizens lives so they would not need to migrate. I would really like to see where all that AID money is going to that is sent to these countries.

 

[Anathema]

Sorry about your Dad. I lost my cousin, my bio dad, and my sister all in one year a few months apart from each other. It's been 10 years since my sister's suicide. Those kinds of experiences have taken quite a toll on my own personal life. So sorry for your pain.

Thanks. It’ll be 22 years in lat August but it still hurts like it was yesterday. Sorry for your losses SS well.

 

[Anathema]

Sounds like we have a similar opinion of organized religion

I just don’t see the point. It’s a bad investment. You put out all this time, energy and money and you don’t every see any return. Oh, there’s that supposed “Eternsl Life” thing, but even thst can’t be physically guaranteed or qualified. Lots of talk but very little return

 

[psikeyhackr]

Who OWNS the land and how did they get it?