CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[Mudda]

"51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S."

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

And don't forget to add all the liars to the 51%, and all the people too afraid to say it to a census person... And the question "would you mind if the US was sharia?" wasn't asked, which would have added a whole bunch of Islamists.

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

 

[Pogo]

I am struggling with this assertion that only Muslims do bad things and that we never hear of Christians doing bad things.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The evidence is that Christians are more than capable of savage behaviour and it doesnt help the debate to continually deny the fact.

Christians stopped killing in the name of Jesus and god a long, long time ago. Your one example in Bosnia is bogus because they weren't doing it for god or Jesus, and it was one isolated case, not part of mainstream Christianity like jihad is in the Muslim community.

So christian murderers arent christian but muslim murderers are muslim ?
OK, if you say so.

Christians aren't murdering for god or because it says so in their holy book. Muslims do that all the time. What's so hard for you to understand?

What's so hard to understand about the phrase "having it both ways"?

When "we" does it they's jest outliers who ain't Kershchuns nohow, but when "they" does it, they's follerin' they holy book. That about it?

If you're comparing Muslim terrorists to Christian terrorists as being equal, that's like arguing that the number 600 million is the same as the number 4. Good luck with that.

On the contrary, I'd argue that a rate of six percent is not at all the same as "Mustlims do that all the time".

See post 138. And try not to be so gullible for sensationalist hair-on-fire scare stories.

 

[Coyote]

The chart/poll is fairly inconclusive on any issue. Almost equal number of strong religious affliation between Muslims and Christians. I suppose if you asked Christians whether they supported abortion bombers, you'd get even fewer supporters. Who admits to supporting terrorists?

I think one of the most basic things Americans consider about their government is the concept of equality. This makes how a religion looks at women a far better indicator than homosexuality. The poll was also taken in 2011, since then ISIS has come into being.

Also, wouldn't more recent immigrants be MORE new nation first? Not sure what the curve on that looks like, but normally folks came here with highly idealized views of America.

How is it "inconclusive" on "any issue"? Do you think opinions have drastically changed in 5 years and if so, how?

 

[Coyote]

"51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S."

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

And don't forget to add all the liars to the 51%, and all the people too afraid to say it to a census person... And the question "would you mind if the US was sharia?" wasn't asked, which would have added a whole bunch of Islamists.

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

Proof isn't "proof" if it's faulty - for example, your using the "National Report" as proof.

 

[Coyote]

If any Muslim is working to replace our civilization with an Islamic one, they ARE part of a fifth column.

Since one of the most basic values of western liberalism involves the free exchange of ideas, that would extend to any who believe criticism of Islam should be forbidden.

All those display such an excessive deference to Islam to the point that they are working towards this same objective are most definitely part of the fifth column as well.

Are any American Muslims working to replace our civilization with an Islamic one? What evidence do you have? If a few outliers are, then does that broadbrush the entire Muslim American community? Is there any difference between that and Christian extremists trying to replace a secular culture with a religious one?

 

[Mudda]

"51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S."

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

And don't forget to add all the liars to the 51%, and all the people too afraid to say it to a census person... And the question "would you mind if the US was sharia?" wasn't asked, which would have added a whole bunch of Islamists.

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

Proof isn't "proof" if it's faulty - for example, your using the "National Report" as proof.

So what poll on the subject to you accept?

 

[Coyote]

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

Proof isn't "proof" if it's faulty - for example, your using the "National Report" as proof.

So what poll on the subject to you accept?

Pew Research Center - they are non-partisan, non-advocacy and have a solid reputation. I'm sure there are other good polls but I don't think they go as deeply as Pew in their polling and especially analysis.

 

[Arianrhod]

That is what I remembered. The passages in the Koran are making the same point. Neither condones rape.

"there are several verses in this book (koran) which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women."

Rape in Islam - WikiIslam

It goes on to give a list of verses.

I am struggling with this assertion that only Muslims do bad things and that we never hear of Christians doing bad things.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The evidence is that Christians are more than capable of savage behaviour and it doesnt help the debate to continually deny the fact.

Christians stopped killing in the name of Jesus and god a long, long time ago. Your one example in Bosnia is bogus because they weren't doing it for god or Jesus, and it was one isolated case, not part of mainstream Christianity like jihad is in the Muslim community.

So christian murderers arent christian but muslim murderers are muslim ?
OK, if you say so.

Christians aren't murdering for god or because it says so in their holy book. Muslims do that all the time. What's so hard for you to understand?

What's hard for me to understand is where you've acquired this intimate knowledge, not only of both religions, but of every single one of the people who follow them. No doubt your evidence is overwhelming. Some of us would like to see it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

What does the Bible say about rape?

That is what I remembered. The passages in the Koran are making the same point. Neither condones rape.

"there are several verses in this book (koran) which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women."

Rape in Islam - WikiIslam

It goes on to give a list of verses.

I am struggling with this assertion that only Muslims do bad things and that we never hear of Christians doing bad things.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The evidence is that Christians are more than capable of savage behaviour and it doesnt help the debate to continually deny the fact.

Christians stopped killing in the name of Jesus and god a long, long time ago. Your one example in Bosnia is bogus because they weren't doing it for god or Jesus, and it was one isolated case, not part of mainstream Christianity like jihad is in the Muslim community.

So christian murderers arent christian but muslim murderers are muslim ?
OK, if you say so.

Stop with the garbage comparison between Christian and Muslim. If the Muslims weren't destroying everything in their path, there would have been no Crusades. Skip to the reality of our times. Christians are murdering 0 children in Nigeria, killing 0 in France, downing 0 buildings, downing 0 planes. Here is how we can prove wrong the utter gall of pretending there IS a comparison.
You start listing all of the murder victims at the hands of Muslims in this time that we live in, and I'll list the murders you are seeing at the hands of the Christians around the world, then lets compare lists.

There is no comparison. And you know it. Start your list.

 

[Pogo]

"51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S."

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

And don't forget to add all the liars to the 51%, and all the people too afraid to say it to a census person... And the question "would you mind if the US was sharia?" wasn't asked, which would have added a whole bunch of Islamists.

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

Proof isn't "proof" if it's faulty - for example, your using the "National Report" as proof.

The fact that the National Report satire was even cited as a real story demonstrates, sadly, how eager the Dividers are to scrape up whatever they can find from the bottom of the echobarrel, to willingly buy every hair-on-fire idea regardless how absurd, to advance the bigot agenda and perpetuate mythology, without the slightest critical examination.

Therein I submit lies the larger problem; not the zealotry of this religion or that religion but that of Division. Division leads to one thing only, and that is --- deeper Division.

 

[Mudda]

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

Proof isn't "proof" if it's faulty - for example, your using the "National Report" as proof.

So what poll on the subject to you accept?

Pew Research Center - they are non-partisan, non-advocacy and have a solid reputation. I'm sure there are other good polls but I don't think they go as deeply as Pew in their polling and especially analysis.

So you don't have a link to a relevant poll that you endorse. So you have nothing. Got it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

If any Muslim is working to replace our civilization with an Islamic one, they ARE part of a fifth column.

Since one of the most basic values of western liberalism involves the free exchange of ideas, that would extend to any who believe criticism of Islam should be forbidden.

All those display such an excessive deference to Islam to the point that they are working towards this same objective are most definitely part of the fifth column as well.

Are any American Muslims working to replace our civilization with an Islamic one? What evidence do you have? If a few outliers are, then does that broadbrush the entire Muslim American community? Is there any difference between that and Christian extremists trying to replace a secular culture with a religious one?

Do you understand the implications inherent in the use of the word "if".

I realize you feel compelled to trot out the word "broadbrush" whenever you automatically defend Islam, but the word implies that IF a Muslim wishes to replace our way of life with theirs (sharia law/elimination of the separation of religion and politics/assault in freedom of speech -- a notion obviously shared by some of their internet supporters) THEN they are part of a fifth column.
If/Then,

Learn it.

 

[Coyote]

[

That is what I remembered. The passages in the Koran are making the same point. Neither condones rape.

"there are several verses in this book (koran) which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women."

Rape in Islam - WikiIslam

It goes on to give a list of verses.

I am struggling with this assertion that only Muslims do bad things and that we never hear of Christians doing bad things.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The evidence is that Christians are more than capable of savage behaviour and it doesnt help the debate to continually deny the fact.

Christians stopped killing in the name of Jesus and god a long, long time ago. Your one example in Bosnia is bogus because they weren't doing it for god or Jesus, and it was one isolated case, not part of mainstream Christianity like jihad is in the Muslim community.

So christian murderers arent christian but muslim murderers are muslim ?
OK, if you say so.

Stop with the garbage comparison between Christian and Muslim. If the Muslims weren't destroying everything in their path, there would have been no Crusades. Skip to the reality of our times. Christians are murdering 0 children in Nigeria, killing 0 in France, downing 0 buildings, downing 0 planes. Here is how we can prove wrong the utter gall of pretending there IS a comparison.
You start listing all of the murder victims at the hands of Muslims in this time that we live in, and I'll list the murders you are seeing at the hands of the Christians around the world, then lets compare lists.

There is no comparison. And you know it. Start your list.

Tommy and Irish Ram - let's stick to the American Muslim community, not what is going on in other countries - cultures are completely different and we can get way sidetracked.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

Proof isn't "proof" if it's faulty - for example, your using the "National Report" as proof.

So what poll on the subject to you accept?

Pew Research Center - they are non-partisan, non-advocacy and have a solid reputation. I'm sure there are other good polls but I don't think they go as deeply as Pew in their polling and especially analysis.

So you don't have a link to a relevant poll that you endorse. So you have nothing. Got it.

The link is in Post #2 of this thread.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The fact that the National Report satire was even cited as a real story demonstrates, sadly, how eager the bigots are to scrape up whatever they can find from the bottom of the echobarrel, to willingly buy every hair-on-fire idea regardless how absurd, to advance the bigot agenda and perpetuate mythology, without the slightest critical examination.

Therein I submit lies the larger problem; not the zealotry of this religion or that religion but that of Division. Division leads to one thing only, and that is --- more Division.

"Bigots" "Racists" "Islamophobes"

This name calling by those championing Islam is simply a way to try to shame into submission any who might oppose this most archly conservative political/religious system on the face of the earth.

 

[pillars]

"51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S."

51% of U.S. Muslims want Sharia; 60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam than to U.S.

And don't forget to add all the liars to the 51%, and all the people too afraid to say it to a census person... And the question "would you mind if the US was sharia?" wasn't asked, which would have added a whole bunch of Islamists.

That's the same "poll" who's methodology has been widely descredited: Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslim immigrants is based on a very shoddy poll

Trump cites shaky survey in call to ban Muslims from entering US

That's why I tend to use Pew - they're reputable, and I haven't heard complaints from either the left or the right.

I don't know why you're trying to associate me with that lunatic, maybe because that's all you have for a comeback is a smear?
60% of young Muslims more loyal to Islam, and if you add in the ones who wouldn't say so because of a job...? That makes easily 2/3 of young Muslims who prefer sharia.

I'm not trying to associate you with him - it's just that that article discussed the poll's failings. Not all polls are equal - some are sloppy and inaccurate, others are reputable. When you have a poll that represents such an outlier, it's a good idea to examine it more closely.

Oh, you're one of those, you just toss the proof out arbitrarily because you don't like it. Got it.

No. She's one of those people that likes "proof" to be credible.

 

[L.K.Eder]

pogo is championing islam? where?

 

[The Irish Ram]

The OP carefully presented the facts, which are that American Muslims have different views than Muslims elsewhere. American Muslims are more similar to other Americans than different. The majority do not support principles embedded in Sharia law.
How do you continue to repeat the same hate filled propaganda with no consideration for the truth?

In that case there must be two different Qurans. One must have replaced the creed that peace is achieved by killing the infidels, with live and let live.
So where are these Muslims that want to be just like the great Satan? Why is there even a discussion of banning Sharia Law in America, since the majority don't support it, and where did you dream up this great divide between Muslims that want to remain true to their faith, and those reject it for apple pie and mom?

 

[Pogo]

pogo is championing islam? where?

If I am I'll report myself right away. Wait 'til Lao Tzu hears about this.

Oddly, though I'm sure he doesn't see it --- he just proved my point.

 

[The Irish Ram]

[

"there are several verses in this book (koran) which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women."

Rape in Islam - WikiIslam

It goes on to give a list of verses.

I am struggling with this assertion that only Muslims do bad things and that we never hear of Christians doing bad things.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The evidence is that Christians are more than capable of savage behaviour and it doesnt help the debate to continually deny the fact.

Christians stopped killing in the name of Jesus and god a long, long time ago. Your one example in Bosnia is bogus because they weren't doing it for god or Jesus, and it was one isolated case, not part of mainstream Christianity like jihad is in the Muslim community.

So christian murderers arent christian but muslim murderers are muslim ?
OK, if you say so.

Stop with the garbage comparison between Christian and Muslim. If the Muslims weren't destroying everything in their path, there would have been no Crusades. Skip to the reality of our times. Christians are murdering 0 children in Nigeria, killing 0 in France, downing 0 buildings, downing 0 planes. Here is how we can prove wrong the utter gall of pretending there IS a comparison.
You start listing all of the murder victims at the hands of Muslims in this time that we live in, and I'll list the murders you are seeing at the hands of the Christians around the world, then lets compare lists.

There is no comparison. And you know it. Start your list.

Tommy and Irish Ram - let's stick to the American Muslim community, not what is going on in other countries - cultures are completely different and we can get way sidetracked.

Sorry Coyote but let's not. The question is, what do American Muslims want? Let's instead be frank about what they want. They want the same here that they want everywhere else, and peace and unity with those willing to give them a chance in a new land isn't it.
Where do you think our American Muslims are coming from?
When the numbers are sufficient, you'll see the Muslim attitudes change, just like they have in other countries. When there are enough you will see the same mob mentality that we are seeing everywhere else. American Muslims are just getting started. Wait till Obama reaches his goal of 10 million of them here in the next ten years. We won't be able to make silly comments like American Muslims are culturally different than their Polish counterparts or the Greek Muslims, or those wacky French ones. The more that they pour into these once peaceful countries, the more their culture is apparent.
We have to stop pretending that these "immigrants" are just like all the other immigrants that came here. They are not.
This UN disbursement of Muslims worldwide is creating havoc worldwide because they are the same no matter what soil their feet land on. For proof of that. Watch the nightly news.