What Conservatives/Patriots Should be Doing Now

[Billiejeens]

No. Enlighten me.

I asked you to.
If you can't I understand-
I actually asked the other one - who can't answer either.
But you troll in whenever you want.

 

[Doug1943]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. Assume I'm a stupid old white Southern conservative (which wouldn't be far wrong) , and write a few simple sentences putting your case. Be kind. I'll do my best to understand your argument and reply

 

[Billiejeens]

bump

 

[Doug1943]

There don't seem to be any serious replies here, but I'll try to answer the half-serious ones.

(1) If you study the history of the FBI's infiltration of political groups, you'll see that a group which remains peaceful and legal has nothing to worry about. There are several books which are histories of this subject ... if anyone is interested I'll give you a reading list.

So ... we are NOT going to kidnap a governor, or shoot up a mosque, or get ahold of some dynamite. We are peaceful and legal, exercising our Second Amendment rights. See the people at YCPT for more about this.


(2) No one knows the future. America emerged from WWII as king of the world, and that lasted for 70 years. Things are changing. The Left is eating away at the foundations ... teaching children that we are a terrible racist society, etc. China is on the way up, economically and militarily.

There is more to be written about this ... but no matter what is written, most people will be subject to 'normalcy bias'. (Look it up.)

So, what patriots must do is to prepare. First, individually. Then, organize with like-minded people in your area. If there are none, consider moving to a 'Red State'.

Easy-peasy. And it doesn't cost much, either.

 

[g5000]

 

[airplanemechanic]

You guys have been predicting gloom and doom ever since Biden won and so far it hasn't happened. That's because Biden, like Obama, knows how to run a government. Clinton too.

Bush and Trump didn't know what they were doing.

Employers added 223,000 jobs in December, the Labor Department reported on Friday, about in line with economists' expectations but lower than the average in recent months. The unemployment rate ticked down to 3.5 percent, back to its low point from before the pandemic.

Yes, but wages are flat. And in an economy that has 7-9% inflation, flat wages are not good. People are working and not getting ahead because the jobs they are getting aren't paying the bills. In the 2nd quarter of 2022, real wages declined 8.6%.

Stagnant Real Wages Impact on Small Business

Find out how wage issues combined with inflation can hurt both existing businesses and would-be entrepreneurs.

www.businessnewsdaily.com

Despite the tight labor market in the U.S. — which is typically associated with higher wages — the majority of workers find that wages continue to fall behind inflation. In the second quarter of 2022, the average decline in real wage growth was 8.6 percen

 

[Concerned American]

Yes, but wages are flat. And in an economy that has 7-9% inflation, flat wages are not good. People are working and not getting ahead because the jobs they are getting aren't paying the bills. In the 2nd quarter of 2022, real wages declined 8.6%.

Stagnant Real Wages Impact on Small Business

Find out how wage issues combined with inflation can hurt both existing businesses and would-be entrepreneurs.

www.businessnewsdaily.com

There won't be another moronic 100% increase in the minimum wage to bail this one out either. The economic impact on the majority of people will not be easy or short lived. Grab your boot straps it is going to be a long difficult ride. I expect it will be reminiscent of the 70s. and early 80s.

 

[airplanemechanic]

There won't be another moronic 100% increase in the minimum wage to bail this one out either. The economic impact on the majority of people will not be easy or short lived. Grab your boot straps it is going to be a long difficult ride. I expect it will be reminiscent of the 70s. and early 80s.

But back then liberals were smarter. They didn't just look at unemployment and if that number was low, pretend that everything is rosey. But now, they do. So people are suffering, but liberals are in denial because of the molester-n-chief in the white house.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Doug1943 makes a good point........

If Diversity and liberalism are the way "forward".....

Why are the Liberal nations failing and the most extreme conservative, extreme anti-diversity nations (CHINA) rising ?

 

[Doug1943]

I should make this point: I do NOT blame America's current situation, or what's likely to happen in the future, on Joe Biden and the Democrats.

What I've said about the necessity for patriots to prepare would still be true if Trump, or DeSantis, or Jesus Christ, were in the White House. The pace of change might be different, the particular modalities of decay might be changed a bit ... but there would still be good reason to prepare for a very turbulent future.

Key ideas:
(1) we are all subject to 'normalcy bias'
[ Normalcy bias - Wikipedia ];

(2) There is no benevolent supernatural being overseeing our fate. We're ingenious chimpanzees, 'naked apes'. Anyone with the faintest knowledge of human history, or of current events in the rest of the world, will know that we can be unbelievably cruel and nasty to each other.

(3) The last 75 years have been a 'Golden Age', certainly for people living in the advanced liberal democracies of Europe and its colonial offshoots. That's coming to an end.

Those born during and after WWII -- the 'Boomer' generation -- have lived through a period of unusual peace and prosperity. America guaranteed the security of its defeated enemies, and of its non-Communist allies, and its navy policed the oceans and allowed world trade to flourish.

The only black spot was Communism. Nationalists in the Third World saw it as the quick road to modernity for their backward countries -- and indeed, at the time, it looked like the Soviet Union was growing faster than the US.

But that turned out to be an illusion. The USSR collapsed, and the Chinese abandoned socialist economics, but not the one-party state.

The 1990's were our peak. We were the sole superpower. World trade expanded, and almost every country in the world grew economically. (For some figures, see HumanProgress -- This is a 'good news' site, guaranteed to lift your spirits if you've just finished listening to the news on TV. There's lots of data there, including a lot on economic growth around the world over time. But beware of linear projection. Things looked pretty good in 1912, too.)

Now we're on the way down, but we still have commitments all over the globe. (The Pentagon has something called 'Africa Command' [you get to wear a special pretty patch on your uniform], and it has a budget of several hundred million dollars -- hell, we can't even command South Chicago. ) Neither Republicans nor Democrats will change this -- all of them are dependent on 'campaign contributions' from the arms industry.

For those who read books, I recommend the following:

Peter Zeihan's The Accidental Superpower. He's actually optimistic about the US. His demographic/economic arguments seem irrefutable to me, although I'm looking for critical reviews. You can get a good grasp of his ideas from this YouTube interview:

(He has a more recent book, but I have not read it yet.)



`

 

[sealybobo]

Actually, I thought that both Clinton and Obama were pretty smart people .. especially Clinton, who read a book every week. Way more intelligent that Trump.

What you should do is read a couple of books. The intellectual level here at US Message Board, on both Left and Right, seems pretty low. But those who can read (both sides) ought to look at Peter Zeihan's Accidental Superpower, and maybe something by Ray Dalio or Nouriel Rabinii -- none of whom are especially 'Right' or 'Left'.

Western civilization is rotting from within. At the same time, non-liberal societies, like China, are rising. And, also at the same time, we face a demographic contraction which will have huge effects, economically. How all of these trends will play out ... no one knows.

So ... liberals/progressives, do whatever you feel like. Best of luck to you, in your personal lives. But patriots shoulld prepare for very challenging times.

Well, times are changing that's for sure. Doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative. What matters is, do you have money? If you have money, America is still great. In fact, even if you are broke, America is still the best country to be in. In Canada they are begging to come in. They can't.

What I suggest to all American's left and right is don't have more kids than you can afford. Which means the population is going to shrink. I think that's a good thing but it's not for an economy. It's not good for social security. Today we have more jobs than people looking. But manufacturing jobs only pay $13 and McD pays $15. So who's going to work in those factories? We can't even find enough people to work at McD's.

This country has benefited several times from an influx of immigrants. When times are bad and the economy sucks, we hate immigrants because we have to compete with them for jobs. But when times are good, we need them. Times are good right now. We need them. We need more. We thought kicking them out would raise wages and it did but that also raised inflation. And the feds are going to raise interest rates to slow down the economy, to fix inflation.

So if any of this is hurting you, then I can see how these are very challenging times. But my nephews colleges are already paid for. My home is already paid off. So not all Americans are suffering.

What should we do moving forward? We need to look at what the CEO, VP's and white collar right under the VP are making. Ever since they broke unions, all the biggest companies in America have been paying the CEO's and VP's very very well but the people working at the bottom don't get to share the profits.

As a conservative, what do you want to do about this?

 

[Doug1943]

Well, times are changing that's for sure. Doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative. What matters is, do you have money? If you have money, America is still great. In fact, even if you are broke, America is still the best country to be in. In Canada they are begging to come in. They can't.

What I suggest to all American's left and right is don't have more kids than you can afford. Which means the population is going to shrink. I think that's a good thing but it's not for an economy. It's not good for social security. Today we have more jobs than people looking. But manufacturing jobs only pay $13 and McD pays $15. So who's going to work in those factories? We can't even find enough people to work at McD's.

This country has benefited several times from an influx of immigrants. When times are bad and the economy sucks, we hate immigrants because we have to compete with them for jobs. But when times are good, we need them. Times are good right now. We need them. We need more. We thought kicking them out would raise wages and it did but that also raised inflation. And the feds are going to raise interest rates to slow down the economy, to fix inflation.

So if any of this is hurting you, then I can see how these are very challenging times. But my nephews colleges are already paid for. My home is already paid off. So not all Americans are suffering.

What should we do moving forward? We need to look at what the CEO, VP's and white collar right under the VP are making. Ever since they broke unions, all the biggest companies in America have been paying the CEO's and VP's very very well but the people working at the bottom don't get to share the profits.

As a conservative, what do you want to do about this?

That's a good question, to which I have no answer. Stop illegal immigration, for one thing, although I don't think that will have a dramatic impact on the jobs situation. And the jobs situation is indeed a central problem.

I do think conservatives should do a U-turn on their attitude to unions. There is a lot to say about this, but I'll leave it at that.

I think AI is going to be real job-killer. Again, I'm not sure about the best response.

But in general, I believe conservatives should start re-think their reflexive pro-market libertarian economic views. We can use the state for good ends, for conservative/patriotic ends. In fact, we always have -- conservative deference to the idea of the 'free market' is largely religious, ie nice ideas that aren't to be taken too seriously. Few conservatives would support auctioning off the National Parks, or disbanding the Marines in favor of private contrators.

Here's a concrete proposal: we should launch a national campaign for 'Civil Readiness' (or some similar title), preparing for what may be very challenging events in our future. National, state and local governments should start preparing for serious disruptions in the social/economic order -- for everything from war (distant, or close up), to natural disasters.

We should study the Swiss, Israelis, Chinese and Russians for ideas: changes to building codes, plans worked out in advance for dealing with serious pandemics, major terrorist assaults (say, on a nuclear power plant), radioactive fallout. This would require new building, modification of existing buildings, creation of stockpiles and reserves ... it ought to generate several tens of thousands of jobs. It should be paid for out of increased taxation, not borrowing.

Anyone, Left or Right, who thinks this is Chicken-Little-the-Sky-is-Falling stuff, ought to Google on "N. Roubini" -- better yet, get his latest book.

And, of course, as individuals patriots should 'prepare', and organize (like the people at YCPT), and, if eligible (and if they haven't yet done their military service), enlist in the National Guard.

 

[sealybobo]

That's a good question, to which I have no answer. Stop illegal immigration, for one thing, although I don't think that will have a dramatic impact on the jobs situation. And the jobs situation is indeed a central problem.

I do think conservatives should do a U-turn on their attitude to unions. There is a lot to say about this, but I'll leave it at that.

I think AI is going to be real job-killer. Again, I'm not sure about the best response.

But in general, I believe conservatives should start re-think their reflexive pro-market libertarian economic views. We can use the state for good ends, for conservative/patriotic ends. In fact, we always have -- conservative deference to the idea of the 'free market' is largely religious, ie nice ideas that aren't to be taken too seriously. Few conservatives would support auctioning off the National Parks, or disbanding the Marines in favor of private contrators.

Here's a concrete proposal: we should launch a national campaign for 'Civil Readiness' (or some similar title), preparing for what may be very challenging events in our future. National, state and local governments should start preparing for serious disruptions in the social/economic order -- for everything from war (distant, or close up), to natural disasters.

We should study the Swiss, Israelis, Chinese and Russians for ideas: changes to building codes, plans worked out in advance for dealing with serious pandemics, major terrorist assaults (say, on a nuclear power plant), radioactive fallout. This would require new building, modification of existing buildings, creation of stockpiles and reserves ... it ought to generate several tens of thousands of jobs. It should be paid for out of increased taxation, not borrowing.

Anyone, Left or Right, who thinks this is Chicken-Little-the-Sky-is-Falling stuff, ought to Google on "N. Roubini" -- better yet, get his latest book.

And, of course, as individuals patriots should 'prepare', and organize (like the people at YCPT), and, if eligible (and if they haven't yet done their military service), enlist in the National Guard.

Of course it will have an immediate impact on immigration. What I have found with Biden is being a career politician, you know how to get things done. So instead of taking in however many we take the normal way from South America, we take ZERO in that way right now. Now we just take in refugees. And we figure out where the job shortages are and we send some refuges to all those places.

One problem I hear with the refugees we sent to Minnesota is there was no economic opportunities in that town to begin with. White people couldn't find jobs. So you don't put a bunch of immigrants there. But right now in Ohio there are factories that can't find white workers. All over America. Why? Because the jobs Trump brought back used to pay $30 an hour or more. Today they pay $14 give or take. McD pays more. So why would anyone go work in a factory in Ohio?

But those refuges on the border will be happy to make $14.

 

[sealybobo]

About 4 times in American history America benefited from a huge influx of immigrants. I think today would be number 5. We don't have enough workers. Immigrants will work for $15 hr. White Americans won't. And you all know it.

That's a good question, to which I have no answer. Stop illegal immigration, for one thing, although I don't think that will have a dramatic impact on the jobs situation. And the jobs situation is indeed a central problem.

I do think conservatives should do a U-turn on their attitude to unions. There is a lot to say about this, but I'll leave it at that.

I think AI is going to be real job-killer. Again, I'm not sure about the best response.

But in general, I believe conservatives should start re-think their reflexive pro-market libertarian economic views. We can use the state for good ends, for conservative/patriotic ends. In fact, we always have -- conservative deference to the idea of the 'free market' is largely religious, ie nice ideas that aren't to be taken too seriously. Few conservatives would support auctioning off the National Parks, or disbanding the Marines in favor of private contrators.

Here's a concrete proposal: we should launch a national campaign for 'Civil Readiness' (or some similar title), preparing for what may be very challenging events in our future. National, state and local governments should start preparing for serious disruptions in the social/economic order -- for everything from war (distant, or close up), to natural disasters.

We should study the Swiss, Israelis, Chinese and Russians for ideas: changes to building codes, plans worked out in advance for dealing with serious pandemics, major terrorist assaults (say, on a nuclear power plant), radioactive fallout. This would require new building, modification of existing buildings, creation of stockpiles and reserves ... it ought to generate several tens of thousands of jobs. It should be paid for out of increased taxation, not borrowing.

Anyone, Left or Right, who thinks this is Chicken-Little-the-Sky-is-Falling stuff, ought to Google on "N. Roubini" -- better yet, get his latest book.

And, of course, as individuals patriots should 'prepare', and organize (like the people at YCPT), and, if eligible (and if they haven't yet done their military service), enlist in the National Guard.

I found this

COLUMBUS — Ohio ranks third in the nation for the number of manufacturing jobs, with more than 680,000, or more than one in eight,

more than 7,000 manufacturing openings are listed at OhioMeansJobs.com. “There are manufacturing openings across the state for production workers, engineers, computer programmers, electricians, robotics, automation, and more. These jobs pay well, have promising futures, and are plentiful in Ohio.”

Manufacturing jobs in Ohio pay an average of nearly $67,000 a year.

Average of? Nearly? LOL. That means under $67,000 a year.

And where are these jobs that pay $67K? Fuck the rest of them. Please let Detroiters know about these jobs and they will apply. But you won't hire them because they are black. Then you'll start considering hiring refuges.

 

[Doug1943]

There is a book to be written -- perhaps by a dual team of one conservative and one liberal -- about the change in the work ethic in the US (and in other advanced countries). It should provide comprehensive data to assess the arguments in Hillbilly Elegy. (Hillbilly Elegy - Wikipedia).

Here is a hypothesis to test: a number of developments over the last 75 years or so has killed what used to be a taken-for-granted set of assumptions among ordinary people. This change has had some serious negative effects.

These assumptions were: get as much education as you can handle, which for most people meant completing high school; get a job, if you're male; get married; raise a family. Obey the law. Love your country. Be affiliated with a church, even if your attendance is irregular.

Please note: I am NOT saying that these assumptions were 'good', or that their melting away has been 'bad'. (Nor am I saying the opposite.) And, I'm not saying, "These were the only important things about America." or "Everyone had it pretty good, in the land of the free with liberty and justice for all." (I don't in fact believe that, and I suspect you would be hard put to find anyone who does believe it, or who says they do.)

These assumptions have gone, for whatever reasons. (I do not believe they have gone because an evil conspiracy of a small group plotted to undermine them.)

One effect has been this: if you are a young male in the bottom half of the social scale -- of any race -- it's now possible to live a reasonably-pleasurable life, without a full-time job where you can develop a set of skills over time, and progress in your career.

Television, the internet, the Pill, the legalization of pornography, the ease of access to drugs, has meant you can get along without a wife, or a serious long-term job. This is easiest to see among young Blacks, but it is also becoming true with whites. What has not changed much, though, is what we might call 'social conservatism': love of country, and lack of a positive attitude towards non-standard sexual practices.

The effect of these changes among the upper half of the social scale is somewhat different. Here, jobs are available for those with a college degree, and they pay well enough to make them worth having and keeping. Like their working class counterparts, marriage and children are becoming increasingly rare as life-goals. The most dramatic changes are in things like attitudes toward religion, love of country, attitude towards authority.

Of course, we're just talking about averages. Most social phenomena are roughly normally distributed, so we'll find plenty of exceptions to the above generalizations. (I haven't read any deep analysis of the social composition of the AntiFa movement, but I suspect they share the social attitudes of the upper half of the social order, with the job-orientation (lack thereof) of the bottom.)

I've left out a lot of things that would have to be taken account of: the loss of well-paying unionized jobs for un- and semi-skilled workers; the collapse of Communism; America's lost wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The emancipation of women. Everything is connected to everything else and we can always only get a crude grasp of social reality.

Anyway, here's a hypothesis to be investigated. In some ways, it's just a summary of this book: Coming Apart (book) - Wikipedia

But that book's data is 12 years out of date. Things are moving rapidly now, and it would be good is someone took another look at the phenomena the author described in the light of what has happened since then.

 

[j-mac]

You guys have been predicting gloom and doom ever since Biden won and so far it hasn't happened. That's because Biden, like Obama, knows how to run a government. Clinton too.

Bush and Trump didn't know what they were doing.

Employers added 223,000 jobs in December, the Labor Department reported on Friday, about in line with economists' expectations but lower than the average in recent months. The unemployment rate ticked down to 3.5 percent, back to its low point from before the pandemic.

Hmmm. It’s low point before the pandemic? I wonder who was president then?