What are the Odds?

[CrusaderFrank]

As if it weren't already mathematically impossible for molecules to randomly form amino acids and for amino acids to form proteins and proteins to form cells, I learned today that amino acids come in "right" and Left" handed version and on Earth, life only uses the left-handed version. The protein won't work with a right handed version of the amino acid!

Life s Left-Handed Amino Acids Still A Puzzle - Forbes

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

As if it weren't already mathematically impossible for molecules to randomly form amino acids and for amino acids to form proteins and proteins to form cells, I learned today that amino acids come in "right" and Left" handed version and on Earth, life only uses the left-handed version. The protein won't work with a right handed version of the amino acid!

Life s Left-Handed Amino Acids Still A Puzzle - Forbes

Fascinating...

 

[william the wie]

And right handed sugars

 

[Mr. H.]

A good friend has been a research scientist with Eli Lilly for the past 11 years. His field is mass spectrometry and he specializes in lipidomics (whatever that is LOL). Anyhow he absolutely marvels at the beauty and complexity of the minutest of workings in the human body.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

As if it weren't already mathematically impossible for molecules to randomly form amino acids and for amino acids to form proteins and proteins to form cells, I learned today that amino acids come in "right" and Left" handed version and on Earth, life only uses the left-handed version. The protein won't work with a right handed version of the amino acid!

Life s Left-Handed Amino Acids Still A Puzzle - Forbes

Nothing's mathematically impossible.

We already know atoms form molecules and randomly form amino acids then proteins and eventually life because it's already happened here on Earth.

 

[Papageorgio]

A good friend has been a research scientist with Eli Lilly for the past 11 years. His field is mass spectrometry and he specializes in lipidomics (whatever that is LOL). Anyhow he absolutely marvels at the beauty and complexity of the minutest of workings in the human body.

To me, the complexity of life whether human, plant or animal amazes me. It is really a marvel.

 

[Old Rocks]

The handedness of molecule is called chirality. Feldpars tend to influence the molecules that it catalyzes to have a left handedness.

http://www.pnas.org/content/95/26/15173.full.pdf

ABSTRACT Mineral surfaces were important during the
emergence of life on Earth because the assembly of the
necessary complex biomolecules by random collisions in dilute
aqueous solutions is implausible. Most silicate mineral surfaces
are hydrophilic and organophobic and unsuitable for
catalytic reactions, but some silica-rich surfaces of partly
dealuminated feldspars and zeolites are organophilic and
potentially catalytic. Weathered alkali feldspar crystals from
granitic rocks at Shap, north west England, contain abundant
tubular etch pits, typically 0.4–0.6 mm wide, forming an
orthogonal honeycomb network in a surface zone 50mm thick,
with 2–3 3 106 intersections per mm2 of crystal surface.
Surviving metamorphic rocks demonstrate that granites and
acidic surface water were present on the Earth’s surface by
;3.8 Ga. By analogy with Shap granite, honeycombed feldspar
has considerable potential as a natural catalytic surface for
the start of biochemical evolution. Biomolecules should have
become available by catalysis of amino acids, etc. The honeycomb
would have provided access to various mineral inclusions
in the feldspar, particularly apatite and oxides, which
contain phosphorus and transition metals necessary for energetic
life. The organized environment would have protected
complex molecules from dispersion into dilute solutions, from
hydrolysis, and from UV radiation. Sub-micrometer tubes in
the honeycomb might have acted as rudimentary cell walls for
proto-organisms, which ultimately evolved a lipid lid giving
further shelter from the hostile outside environment. A lid
would finally have become a complete cell wall permitting
detachment and f lotation in primordial ‘‘soup.’’ Etch features
on weathered alkali feldspar from Shap match the shape of
overlying soil bacteria.

 

[Old Rocks]

The Origin of Biological Homochirality

The single-handedness of biological molecules has fascinated scientists and laymen alike since Pasteur's first painstaking separation of the enantiomorphic crystals of a tartrate salt more than 150 yr ago. More recently, a number of theoretical and experimental investigations have helped to delineate models for how one enantiomer might have come to dominate over the other from what presumably was a racemic prebiotic world. This article highlights mechanisms for enantioenrichment that include either chemical or physical processes, or a combination of both. The scientific driving force for this work arises from an interest in understanding the origin of life, because the homochirality of biological molecules is a signature of life.

Two good articles on chirality.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

As if it weren't already mathematically impossible for molecules to randomly form amino acids and for amino acids to form proteins and proteins to form cells, I learned today that amino acids come in "right" and Left" handed version and on Earth, life only uses the left-handed version. The protein won't work with a right handed version of the amino acid!

Life s Left-Handed Amino Acids Still A Puzzle - Forbes

Nothing's mathematically impossible.

We already know atoms form molecules and randomly form amino acids then proteins and eventually life because it's already happened here on Earth.

Correct. But the odds of 2,000 proteins arranging themselves into a cell are a number with 5,700 zeros to 1.

Not impossible, but yeah, impossible.

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course, Frankie Boy, that is simply silly.

Project MUSE - i Protocells Bridging Nonliving and Living Matter i review

Protocells are hypothetical lifelike entities, capable of growing and dividing, thus giving rise to offspring that are similar to their parents but, due to the noise inherent in the process, not identical to them. Protocells therefore possess all the ingredients necessary for Darwinian evolution, and it is possible to imagine that a population of initially very simple protocells change in time, acquiring more sophisticated properties.

Protocells might be at the heart of an entirely new biotechnology, if subject to specific selective pressure (for example, for removing toxic compounds or synthesizing useful ones). But besides potential applications, of course, they also carry an intrinsic interest: their relationship to the problem of the origins of life. Most researchers in protocells do not aim at precisely reproducing the process of the emergence of life on earth, a goal which might even turn out to be unachievable due to lack of recorded information. But it is apparent that succeeding in creating a viable population of protocells would provide at least a proof-of-principle of abiogenesis, and also a set of indications for choosing among various alternative scenarios. (Moreover, such an achievement would have the side effect of cutting short meaningless creationist or intelligent design talks.)

Protocells by Steen Rasmussen, Mark Bedeau, and Norman Packard provides a wide overview of current research on protocells in 28 papers written by different research leaders in the field. The coverage of the experimental and theoretical aspects is impressive. Many of the authors have been part of a large research project on protocells funded by the European Union (Programmable Artificial CElls, PACE for short) that provided a new impetus to the research on this topic, an impetus that was later increased by the U.S. Protocell Assembly project. PACE also provided the funding necessary to give rise in Venice to the ECLT, a new research centre devoted to "Living Technology" (this being the name proposed by the chief editors as an umbrella to cover the activities in this area). A new EU project on this subject is in the final negotiation phase, and it is expected to start very soon. So the field is fertile and active, and a book like this can provide a much-needed reference for all the practitioners.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Of course, Frankie Boy, that is simply silly.

Project MUSE - i Protocells Bridging Nonliving and Living Matter i review

Protocells are hypothetical lifelike entities, capable of growing and dividing, thus giving rise to offspring that are similar to their parents but, due to the noise inherent in the process, not identical to them. Protocells therefore possess all the ingredients necessary for Darwinian evolution, and it is possible to imagine that a population of initially very simple protocells change in time, acquiring more sophisticated properties.

Protocells might be at the heart of an entirely new biotechnology, if subject to specific selective pressure (for example, for removing toxic compounds or synthesizing useful ones). But besides potential applications, of course, they also carry an intrinsic interest: their relationship to the problem of the origins of life. Most researchers in protocells do not aim at precisely reproducing the process of the emergence of life on earth, a goal which might even turn out to be unachievable due to lack of recorded information. But it is apparent that succeeding in creating a viable population of protocells would provide at least a proof-of-principle of abiogenesis, and also a set of indications for choosing among various alternative scenarios. (Moreover, such an achievement would have the side effect of cutting short meaningless creationist or intelligent design talks.)

Protocells by Steen Rasmussen, Mark Bedeau, and Norman Packard provides a wide overview of current research on protocells in 28 papers written by different research leaders in the field. The coverage of the experimental and theoretical aspects is impressive. Many of the authors have been part of a large research project on protocells funded by the European Union (Programmable Artificial CElls, PACE for short) that provided a new impetus to the research on this topic, an impetus that was later increased by the U.S. Protocell Assembly project. PACE also provided the funding necessary to give rise in Venice to the ECLT, a new research centre devoted to "Living Technology" (this being the name proposed by the chief editors as an umbrella to cover the activities in this area). A new EU project on this subject is in the final negotiation phase, and it is expected to start very soon. So the field is fertile and active, and a book like this can provide a much-needed reference for all the practitioners.

Does your post address the impossible odds of these protocells forming by chance with only left handed amino acids?

 

[konradv]

Correct. But the odds of 2,000 proteins arranging themselves into a cell are a number with 5,700 zeros to 1.
Not impossible, but yeah, impossible.

You're assuming randomness. There are rules by which bonding occurs in chemistry which would substantially lower the odds.

 

[Old Rocks]

People like Frankie Boy will flap-yap on these subjects, but will not even take the most basic college courses in Biology, Chemistry, or Physics so as to have a little understanding of what they are talking about. Therefore, their posts demonstrate their abysmal ignorance.