"West Antarctic Ice Sheet's Collapse Triggers Sea Level Warning"

[ScienceRocks]

The tipping of the methane permafrost. It is the main driver as of now of methane!

The horse is now out of our control!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Omfg!!! Methane is over 1800!!! That's wayyyyyyyy more than CO2 why are we only hearing this now???

Game over. Game over man

1800 > 400

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[ScienceRocks]

Omfg!!! Methane is over 1800!!! That's wayyyyyyyy more than CO2 why are we only hearing this now???

Game over. Game over man

1800 > 400

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

Methane before 1800 was never higher than 400-500 ppb. Though the 17th to 1998 the main driver was farming.

Now it is the arctic. The USSR and parts of eastern Asia use to produce most of the methane this way....Very likely our horse has a mind of its own now.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The Tipping Point is upon us. Thanks a lot deniers.

Whatever the tipping point might be, if there is such a unicorn, it would be a thing to worry about IF human beings had any damn control over the tipping point in the first ******* place. Maybe.

But, since there is no scientifically valid evidence that we have reached the mythical "tipping point" (even if there is one, which is a proposition for which there is also no evidence), and since there is no way to establish that human beings have the first damn bit of control over the things that might cause this alleged tipping, it is time to STOP claiming that the sky is falling and the tipping point has been reached and that we have been tipped.

You AGW Faithers are lousy tippers anyway.

 

[Crick]

Regarding the glaciers feeding the Amundsen Sea, we most definitely HAVE reached the tipping point.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Regarding the glaciers feeding the Amundsen Sea, we most definitely HAVE reached the tipping point.

The skeptics need to see a few feet of sea level rise. Only then will they take it seriously!

 

[flacaltenn]

The Tipping Point is upon us. Thanks a lot deniers.

You're welcome! What do we win? And which tipping point is this one? You guys have bleated about so many it's hard to keep track...

I hope the prize is better than the last time. All I got was this -----

All this hard work to screw up the Planet deserves better..

Dotty -- or should I say Prophet Dot? You are a hoot. Build an Ark..

 

[westwall]

The tipping of the methane permafrost. It is the main driver as of now of methane!

The horse is now out of our control!

It didn't happen 8,000 years ago during the HTM which was 5 degrees C warmer than today. That means your silly little one degree rise won't do it either.

 

[Crick]

The tipping of the methane permafrost. It is the main driver as of now of methane!

The horse is now out of our control!

It didn't happen 8,000 years ago during the HTM which was 5 degrees C warmer than today. That means your silly little one degree rise won't do it either.

That would be because the process is far, far more complex than you seem willing to deal with. Peatlands expanded dramatically during the HTM due to increased temperatures at high latitudes and the melting of the Laurentide and Cordilleran ice sheets (providing massive freshwater supplies for milennia). The presence of the remainder of those sheets prevented CO2 releases from any significant portion of melting tundra.

BTW, GLOBAL temperatures were not up 5C during the HTM. Increases that high were only seen in northern latitudes. Temperatures in tropical areas during the HTM were only up 0.5C at most. The HTM was caused by orbitally-induced changes in insolation, not by CO2 emitted by some third party and not by any changes in the sun itself or the spectra of its radiation.

 

[freedombecki]

The tipping of the methane permafrost. It is the main driver as of now of methane!

The horse is now out of our control!

It didn't happen 8,000 years ago during the HTM which was 5 degrees C warmer than today. That means your silly little one degree rise won't do it either.

That would be because the process is far, far more complex than you seem willing to deal with. Peatlands expanded dramatically during the HTM due to increased temperatures at high latitudes and the melting of the Laurentide and Cordilleran ice sheets (providing massive freshwater supplies for milennia). The presence of the remainder of those sheets prevented CO2 releases from any significant portion of melting tundra.

BTW, GLOBAL temperatures were not up 5C during the HTM. Increases that high were only seen in northern latitudes. Temperatures in tropical areas during the HTM were only up 0.5C at most. The HTM was caused by orbitally-induced changes in insolation, not by CO2 emitted by some third party and not by any changes in the sun itself or the spectra of its radiation.

Proof, please.

 

[Crick]

Evaluating CO2 and CH4 dynamics of Alaskan ecosystems during the Holocene Thermal Maximum

Rapid deglacial and early Holocene expansion of peatlands in Alaska

http://www.lehigh.edu/~ziy2/pubs/Jones2010PNAS.pdf

How's this?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Evaluating CO2 and CH4 dynamics of Alaskan ecosystems during the Holocene Thermal Maximum

Rapid deglacial and early Holocene expansion of peatlands in Alaska

http://www.lehigh.edu/~ziy2/pubs/Jones2010PNAS.pdf

How's this?

You don't know because you didn't read them? Can't read them? Can't quite grasp what they mean to your "argument?"

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Regarding the glaciers feeding the Amundsen Sea, we most definitely HAVE reached the tipping point.

The skeptics need to see a few feet of sea level rise. Only then will they take it seriously!

That would certainly imply that the ice caps were melting.

It STILL wouldn't establish the "why" of such a phenomenon.

So, no. Witnessing a sea level rise wouldn't convince most skeptics to take the unsubstantiated AGW Faither claims seriously.

 

[Crick]

Have you not read ANY of the many articles on this topic? It was on the front page of CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and at least somewhere on Fox. Warm ocean water is causing the bases of the glaciers feeding the Amundsen sea to detach from the sea floor. The weight of miles of ice over millions of years have pushed the ground in the West Antarctic Peninsula below sea level. That's why so many of those damned alarmists have been warming about a runaway collapse there. The point at which the glaciers break loose from the ground is known as their grounding lines. Their grounding lines have been receding at such a pace and have gotten into such topography, that the process has become self-sustaining. The glacier systems have been unstable all along and are now collapsing (upward, though, as the ocean moves underneath them). This will raise sea level significantly. The scientists say it will take a century or two. I just want to point out that their predictions have a horrible tendency to turn out to have put things too far off. This could all come apart next week. Do you have any flotation gear around the house?

ps: this has NOTHING to do with the pole melting.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Omfg!!! Methane is over 1800!!! That's wayyyyyyyy more than CO2 why are we only hearing this now???

Game over. Game over man

1800 > 400

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

Methane before 1800 was never higher than 400-500 ppb. Though the 17th to 1998 the main driver was farming.

Now it is the arctic. The USSR and parts of eastern Asia use to produce most of the methane this way....Very likely our horse has a mind of its own now.

er wait...ppb? parts per billion?

1800 parts per billion

wow

That's just wow.

And of course you don't have any experiments that show temperature increases for CH4 either, correct?

Parts per billion.

 

[Crick]

From the Wikipedia article on methane:

The newest IPCC study determined that methane in the Earth's atmosphere is an important greenhouse gas with a global warming potential of 34 compared to CO2 over a 100-year period (although accepted figures probably represent an underestimate[57][58]). This means that a methane emission will have 34 times the effect on temperature of a carbon dioxide emission of the same mass over the following 100 years. And methane has 33 times the effect when accounted for aerosol interactions.[59]

Methane has a large effect for a brief period (a net lifetime of 8.4 years in the atmosphere), whereas carbon dioxide has a small effect for a long period (over 100 years). Because of this difference in effect and time period, the global warming potential of methane over a 20-year time period is 72. The Earth's atmospheric methane concentration has increased by about 150% since 1750, and it accounts for 20% of the total radiative forcing from all of the long-lived and globally mixed greenhouse gases (these gases don't include water vapor which is by far the largest component of the greenhouse effect).[60] Usually, excess methane from landfills and other natural producers of methane is burned so CO2 is released into the atmosphere instead of methane, because methane is a more effective greenhouse gas. Recently, methane emitted from coal mines has been successfully utilized to generate electricity.

Shindell, D. T.; Faluvegi, G.; Koch, D. M.; Schmidt, G. A.; Unger, N.; Bauer, S. E. (2009). "Improved Attribution of Climate Forcing to Emissions". Science 326 (5953): 716–8. Bibcode:2009Sci...326..716S. doi:10.1126/science.1174760. PMID 19900930.

IPCC Fifth Assessment Report, Table 8.7, Chap. 8, p. 8–58 (PDF; 8,0 MB)

Drew T. Shindell*, Greg Faluvegi, Dorothy M. Koch, Gavin A. Schmidt, Nadine Unger, Susanne E. Bauer (2009) (in German), Improved attribution of climate forcing to emissions (Science 326 ed.), AAAS, pp. 716–718, doi:10.1126/science.1174760 Online

No, no proof. The scientists who said it's a greenhouse gas? Liars. All of them. They made it up because they get a boner when someone gets scared.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Have you not read ANY of the many articles on this topic? It was on the front page of CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC and at least somewhere on Fox. Warm ocean water is causing the bases of the glaciers feeding the Amundsen sea to detach from the sea floor. The weight of miles of ice over millions of years have pushed the ground in the West Antarctic Peninsula below sea level. That's why so many of those damned alarmists have been warming about a runaway collapse there. The point at which the glaciers break loose from the ground is known as their grounding lines. Their grounding lines have been receding at such a pace and have gotten into such topography, that the process has become self-sustaining. The glacier systems have been unstable all along and are now collapsing (upward, though, as the ocean moves underneath them). This will raise sea level significantly. The scientists say it will take a century or two. I just want to point out that their predictions have a horrible tendency to turn out to have put things too far off. This could all come apart next week. Do you have any flotation gear around the house?

ps: this has NOTHING to do with the pole melting.

I have indeed read many of the reports. YOU should give it a try.

I also read the alarm-ridden reports of the 1970's predicting that by now we'd all be freezing and starving.

Very enlightening stuff. For observant types (count yourself out, of course) it suggests what we already know: The "science" of climate and climate change is far too riddled with the as yet undiscovered for us to even pretend to place great stock in the "predictions" made by you AGW Faithers.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Ice floats. When it melts in a glass, filled to the brim with water and ice, the water level does not rise. Therefore, we know that floating ice melting into water does NOT change the water level.

The ice that is grounded, when IT melts, will indeed ADD to the water level, however.

So, the ice caps melting and massive glaciers melting IS very much the topic here.

Thought jiminy cricky ought to be alerted to this fact.

 

[Crick]

Though the ice is resting on a sub-sea level surface, the mass of ice is much larger than what would float. The estimates are that it will raise sea level world wide 10-15 feet. This is in addition to sea level rise from melting elsewhere as well as the rise caused by thermal expansion as the ocean warms. This is not good news. Another in a long line of underestimates by cautious scientists pressed hard by politicians not to risk upsetting the public with the scary truth.

 

[Crick]

So, the ice caps melting and massive glaciers melting IS very much the topic here.

The glaciers are not rising off their beds because they are melting away. The surface temperatures in the Antarctic have not risen above freezing. The cause of this destabilization is the topography of the area and the warmth of the deep oceans.