Wendy's Supports Chick-Fil-A
- Thread starter PoliticalChic
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #402
Do you know the four ways the Constitution can be amended?
Can you give the definition of a 'right'?
Fold your paper, no erasing and no crossing out...
OK....go.
- Thread starter
- #403
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Wow... you got through without going on ten tangents or numbering anything like your OCD was acting up.
And some day, you might actually answer a point coherently...
There's always hope.
If I had said to you in 2004 (when you were probably in high school then) that 6 states would legalize gay marriage and DOMA would be on the rocks by 2012, would you have bought it?
Fact is, gay marriage is coming to the whole country, and the haters will have to learn to deal.
- Thread starter
- #405
Really?
Really really?
The following words are engraved in the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C.
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?”
Thomas Jefferson
Folks who agree with Jefferson probably won't agree with you.....
....but, then.....who does?
Ravi
Diamond Member
fyi:
(2). "The God who gave us life gave us liberty
"The God who gave us life gave us liberty... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction... That these liberties are the gift of God? The bible is the cornerstone for American liberty." -Thomas Jefferson
There Are Actually Two Versions of This. The mere fact that there are two versions of it is a good indication it has problems.
Version #1
"The God who gave us life gave us liberty... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction... That these liberties are the gift of God? The bible is the cornerstone for American liberty." -Thomas Jefferson
Version #2
"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." Thomas Jefferson
Beginning with the first version:
First problem is that this quote is not cited, i.e., its origin isn't stated--probably for the reason that it doesn't appear in Thomas Jefferson's works as quoted. If you break it into pieces, you can find some of the pieces in Jefferson's works.
[1]"The God who gave us life gave us liberty. . . [2]Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction. . . That these liberties are the gift of God? [3]The bible is the cornerstone for American liberty." -Thomas Jefferson
Part [1]
We can find the first phrase in Jefferson's 1774 publication to the English king, A Summary View of the Rights of British America. Notice that by extracting only part of Jefferson's entire phrase, the manufacturer of this invalid quote, gives it a different slant than Jefferson's original. Also notice that the rest of the problematic quotation isn't found in the document.
. . .This, sire, is the advice of your great American council, on the observance of which may perhaps depend your felicity and future fame, and the preservation of that harmony which alone can continue both to Great Britain and America the reciprocal advantages of their connection. It is neither our wish, nor our interest, to separate from her. We are willing, on our part, to sacrifice every thing which reason can ask to the restoration of that tranquillity for which all must wish. On their part, let them be ready to establish union and a generous plan. Let them name their terms, but let them be just. Accept of every commercial preference it is in our power to give for such things as we can raise for their use, or they make for ours. But let them not think to exclude us from going to other markets to dispose of those commodities which they cannot use, or to supply those wants which they cannot supply. Still less let it be proposed that our properties within our own territories shall be taxed or regulated by any power on earth but our own. The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. This, sire, is our last, our determined resolution; and that you will be pleased to interpose with that efficacy which your earnest endeavours may ensure to procure redress of these our great grievances, to quiet the minds of your subjects in British America, against any apprehensions of future encroachment, to establish fraternal love and harmony through the whole empire, and that these may continue to the latest ages of time, is the fervent prayer of all British America! . . .
Source of Document:
University of Virginia Library Electronic Text Center Jefferson, Thomas, 1743-1826. A Summary View of the Rights of British America, p. 122, Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library
Part [2]
[1]"The God who gave us life gave us liberty. . . [2]Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction. . . That these liberties are the gift of God? [3]The bible is the cornerstone for American liberty." -Thomas Jefferson
Part [2], the middle section, does come from a bona fide document written by Jefferson: Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, "Manners". Jefferson was speaking of the evils of slavery, not the virtues of religious morality. Here is the paragraph from which the quotation (bolded) is taken:
Excerpt From: Notes on the State of Virginia by Thomas Jefferson
. . .The man must be a prodigy who can retain his manners and morals undepraved by such circumstances. And with what execrations should the statesman be loaded who, permitting one half the citizens thus to trample on the rights of the other, transforms those into despots and these into enemies, destroys the morals of the one part and the amor patriae of the other. For if a slave can have a country in this world, it must be any other in preference to that in which he is born to live and labor for another: in which he must lock up the faculties of his nature, contribute as far as depends on his individual endeavors to the evanishment of the human race or entail his own miserable condition on the endless generations proceeding from him. With the morals of the people, their industry is also destroyed. For in a warm climate, no man will labor for himself who can make another labor for him. This is so true that, of the proprietors of slaves, a very small proportion are ever seen to labor. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure, when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of god? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice can not sleep forever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! . . .
Study Guide: Problematical Religious Right Quotes And Arguments
- Thread starter
- #407
Those of us who have done this kind of study, long ago realized that, like the Bible...quotes from Jefferson often straddle both sides of an argument.
But the point here is that people of faith...and this includes Jefferson, seek principles and foundations for our nation that can and should be applied today.
Nor is the Jefferson quote the only one on this path.
The forerunner of the Declaration of Independence was signed over a century and a half earlier, in 1620. 41 families signed the Mayflower Compact, which begins “In the name of God, Amen.” The Compact created the terms of the self-government that bound one to another and each to God.
Unlike the Magna Carta, the Compact was not a contract between a king and a servant, or a superior and a subordinate. Rather, it reflected the radical notion that by binding themselves together as equals before God, they could govern themselves, without a king, or an all powerful big government.
Similarly, covenantal language was found in dozens of organizing documents in 17th and 18th century colonial America; the 56 signers of the Declaration also pledged themselves to each other and each to God.
Brought up in chapter 19 of "To Save America," Gingrich.
So, we have a point of reference for the Chik-Fil-A debate.
I sure wish more on the the board had the time and inclination to post like yours.
- Banned
- #408
Do you know the four ways the Constitution can be amended?
Can you give the definition of a 'right'?
Fold your paper, no erasing and no crossing out...
OK....go.
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)
But so what? My point is that if the Constitution can be changed by the majority, then equal rights have no real protection.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
What the **** does that have to do with what I said?
Seriously, is this part of your bizarre OCD, that when cornered by facts you don't like, you scamper into quoting one of the Founding Slave-rapers like that's important?
ConzHateUSA
Rookie
- Jul 10, 2012
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- Banned
- #410
I like the cut of your jib, sometimes anyway
The difference between you and I is that whatever wage you can negotiate for your labor is fine with me. I hope you can get $400 an hour or more and that is okay with me.
Go for it. That is capitalism and the free market.
Another difference between you and I is that if you have more skills than I do and happen to market that and make millions I would congratulate you for that and use you as a role model.
But you look down and condemn anyone out there that makes 1 cent more than you or is willing TO WORK FOR LESS than you. You are so jealous and envious of OTHERS that negotiate their wages in the marketplace the same as you but happen to have more skills than you and cry like a 5 year old and call them "greedy" and "selfish".
Hypocrit like most union members. Too soft to negotiate your own wage so you have to have a mob to do it for you.
It is amazing Joe what you could accomplish in your life if you did not sit around like a cry baby worrying who gets more credit for it.
My grandfather taught me at a young age that if I received $2 an hour then I needed to give $3 worth of work for that. When I played ball I remembered that and always gave 110% and never worried about the times someone else, that was obviously more talented than me!, played more than I did.
Union workers only give what they are paid worrying that if they give a half of 1% more effort than someone else they will not get paid for it.
And that is what has ruined American industry.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Skipping over my argument of how unions have made workplaces safer... gadawg goes into a personal attack.... It ain't about me, guy..
Guy, your virtues are all in your own mind, as I suspect is your "success". People who have to brag about their success on the internet are usually right up there with people who brag about their penis size on the internet...
Unions are needed because given human nature, people will try to **** you if given an oppurtunity, period. All a union does is even the playing field, the last thing in the world a bully wants is someone who can hit back.
And as I've pointed out, it doesn't work this way in the rest of the world. Only in America does someone claim he still deserves his 8-figure severnce package after bankrupting the company.
The oppossite of Capitalism isn't Socialism, it's Democracy.
Guy, your virtues are all in your own mind, as I suspect is your "success". People who have to brag about their success on the internet are usually right up there with people who brag about their penis size on the internet...
Unions are needed because given human nature, people will try to **** you if given an oppurtunity, period. All a union does is even the playing field, the last thing in the world a bully wants is someone who can hit back.
And as I've pointed out, it doesn't work this way in the rest of the world. Only in America does someone claim he still deserves his 8-figure severnce package after bankrupting the company.
The oppossite of Capitalism isn't Socialism, it's Democracy.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
The good old days before Unions in Coal mines... which I guess Gawdawg misses...
- Thread starter
- #415
Let's be very clear, here.
Dealing with your inadequacies...your inability to understand....are not my obligation.
BTW...the language you've been reduced to indicate the you are aware of your problem.
- Thread starter
- #416
Why? What's the problem? Constitution CAN be amended.
Do you know the four ways the Constitution can be amended?
Can you give the definition of a 'right'?
Fold your paper, no erasing and no crossing out...
OK....go.
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)
But so what? My point is that if the Constitution can be changed by the majority, then equal rights have no real protection.
And 'rights'?
Gay marriage is hardly one....
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Sorry, I'm a blunt old Army Sergeant, I don't waste time on bullshit.
I asked a very straight up question. Rather than answer that question, you quoted a Dead Slave-Raper like anything he had to say on the subject was germaine.
Simply put, you are as on the wrong side of history as the Klan was. And just like a 1950's Klansman would have a heart attack if you showed him a picture of Obama behind the Presidential Podium, some day, the haters will find themselves a source of embarassment even for their descendents.
Even within my lifetime, we've seen housing discrimination, job discrimination, etc. go to the wayside. In the 1980's, the Christian Right went hysterical when Tony Randall played a gay man in "Sydney and Me". Now we have Ellen and Will and Grace and no one bats an eye. You use a homophobic slur at work, you will be fired, as you should be.
So now all you haters are reduced to now is "Oh, please, please don't insist on calling your relationships 'marriage'! Please call them 'Civil Unions' or baby Jesus will cry!" And then you stuff your mouths with Chik-Fil-A because you've found one asshole who is too ignorant to know how out of step with the times he is.
- Banned
- #418
You're trying to deny something to a whole segment of society that you enjoy yourself. Let's just hope you never start to hate black people.
And anyways, why are you so concerned with what people you don't know do?
Seawytch
Information isnt Advocacy
Marriage is....according to the SCOTUS anyway. They've declared it such on no less than three occasions.
Since marriage has been declared, not just a right, but a fundamental right...what reasonable person standard is there to deny this fundamental right to law abiding, tax paying gay and lesbian Americans? See, that's the key. Those opposed to granting us that fundamental right have to establish a societal harm in allowing us to marry the non-familial, consenting adult of our choice. Nobody has been able to which is why we keep winning in court.
Seawytch
Information isnt Advocacy
The good old days before Unions in Coal mines... which I guess Gawdawg misses...
I'm recalling the Massey Mining disaster. They were a non-union mine...
Uninformed Limbaugh Wonders ‘Where Was The Union’ At Non-Union Mine Disaster
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