We need to replace obamacare with a BAN on health insurance.

[dblack]

Banning insurance would be better than forcing it on everyone. But I still don't get what's wrong with letting people decide for themselves how to finance their healthcare.

 

[owebo]

Did you have a point?

Again, do you have a fucking point?

You're speaking to intelligent people here, perhaps you should try a different on-line degree......

 

[Care4all]

Health care isn't something most people bargain and haggle and shop around for when their kid broke their back And arm, or in a car accident or when diagnosed with cancer etc.... time is usually of the essence and its not like we are simply a customer that can walk away from the "purchase" and wait till it goes on sale...

True market forces are not really present, to make it work as a widget purchase.

Yes, that's true, market forces aren't really present, because GOVERNMENT intervention has totally short circuited them, it explains why health care costs have gone through the roof and relative quality has declined ever since politicians have put their grubby, corrupt, money stealing mitts on the health care market.

Competition is what reduces costs and increases quality, government intervention has the opposite effect.

"The market system is the basis of our civilization. Its only alternative is the Führer principle." -- Ludwig Von Mises

As I said, TRUE market forces, even WITHOUT gov't help, will not work like it would with iPhones or another widget.....

Medical assistance when sick IS NOT equal to passing on the purchase of an iPhone because it costs too much.

And the very high deductibles was suppose to bring costs down with consumer influence and people are screaming bloody murder over them.

That tax deduction that your employers get, is gov't intervention, those medical advances comes from gov't intervention thru funding the research and development at universities, those medical school grants is gov't intervention, Medicare and Medicaid, and VA hospitals is gov't intervention, CHIP the health care coverage for poor children is gov't intervention, vaccinations for all grade school kids is Gvt intervention, pharmaceutical R&D is Gvt intervention,....building health care clinics is Gvt intervention....

You have not considered REALITY.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

We need to replace obamacare with a BAN on health insurance.

Why stop there? go all the way and just BAN health care, fucking doctors are all quacks anyways.

sigh. You don't even understand the issue do you.?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Health care isn't something most people bargain and haggle and shop around for when their kid broke their back And arm, or in a car accident or when diagnosed with cancer etc.... time is usually of the essence and its not like we are simply a customer that can walk away from the "purchase" and wait till it goes on sale...
.

So why do so many americans go to mexico or other countries for health care.? Price always matters, you fool.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

60 years ago a night in a hospital cost one day's salary of an average worker. Now it cost's $3,000 which is more like a month's salary.

3000 should be more like two weeks salary, and thats pretty much living at bare minimum

You think $36,000 a year is poverty level?? You crazy.

 

[NightFox]

Health care isn't something most people bargain and haggle and shop around for when their kid broke their back And arm, or in a car accident or when diagnosed with cancer etc.... time is usually of the essence and its not like we are simply a customer that can walk away from the "purchase" and wait till it goes on sale...

True market forces are not really present, to make it work as a widget purchase.

Yes, that's true, market forces aren't really present, because GOVERNMENT intervention has totally short circuited them, it explains why health care costs have gone through the roof and relative quality has declined ever since politicians have put their grubby, corrupt, money stealing mitts on the health care market.

Competition is what reduces costs and increases quality, government intervention has the opposite effect.

"The market system is the basis of our civilization. Its only alternative is the Führer principle." -- Ludwig Von Mises

As I said, TRUE market forces, even WITHOUT gov't help, will not work like it would with iPhones or another widget.....

Medical assistance when sick IS NOT equal to passing on the purchase of an iPhone because it costs too much.

And the very high deductibles was suppose to bring costs down with consumer influence and people are screaming bloody murder over them.

That tax deduction that your employers get, is gov't intervention, those medical advances comes from gov't intervention thru funding the research and development at universities, those medical school grants is gov't intervention, Medicare and Medicaid, and VA hospitals is gov't intervention, CHIP the health care coverage for poor children is gov't intervention, vaccinations for all grade school kids is Gvt intervention, pharmaceutical R&D is Gvt intervention,....building health care clinics is Gvt intervention....

You have not considered REALITY.

Do you understand that medical care is a FINITE resource? So while it's noble of you to believe that Medical Care is somehow not subject to the forces of SUPPLY and DEMAND, it's you that have not considered REALITY.

All government intervention has managed to achieve is to artificially reduce SUPPLY (via regulation, licensure requirements and taxes) and artificially increase DEMAND which has resulted in the higher costs and lower overall quality, so basically you do have sick people passing on Medical Care because it's "costs too much" and you have other people that don't really require Medical Care consuming it because thanks to government the costs are getting shifting to others.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Banning insurance would be better than forcing it on everyone. But I still don't get what's wrong with letting people decide for themselves how to finance their healthcare.

It hurts all of us when people are allowed to buy health insurance. Lots of things make sense individually but not collectively. I personally would like to hire anyone i wish to represent me in court but the law says i have to hire a lawyer. And that's probably a good law.

 

[dblack]

Banning insurance would be better than forcing it on everyone. But I still don't get what's wrong with letting people decide for themselves how to finance their healthcare.

It hurts all of us when people are allowed to buy health insurance. Lots of things make sense individually but not collectively. I personally would like to hire anyone i wish to represent me in court but the law says i have to hire a lawyer. And that's probably a good law.

That's the same logic used by those who want to force us to buy insurance. I know you're pretty excited about authoritarian solutions to, well, just about anything, but it's not necessary. Insurance, as a default means of financing health care, isn't viable. All we need to do is quit propping it up with state policy. Let people buy whatever kind of insurance they want, or not. Without government subsidies and policies pushing people into buying insurance, we'll find a balance that suits us.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
. Insurance, as a default means of financing health care, isn't viable. All we need to do is quit propping it up with state policy. Let people buy whatever kind of insurance they want, or not. Without government subsidies and policies pushing people into buying insurance, we'll find a balance that suits us.

That might work but i doubt if would drive down healthcare costs. But if there was no health insurance, health care would cost 1/10th what it does now and there would be no real need for insurance except catastrophic.

 

[dblack]

[
. Insurance, as a default means of financing health care, isn't viable. All we need to do is quit propping it up with state policy. Let people buy whatever kind of insurance they want, or not. Without government subsidies and policies pushing people into buying insurance, we'll find a balance that suits us.

That might work but i doubt if would drive down healthcare costs. But if there was no health insurance, health care would cost 1/10th what it does now and there would be no real need for insurance except catastrophic.

It's a problem that solves itself - if we let it. Full coverage, low-deductible insurance is getting too expensive. That's because it doesn't make sense. And the more expensive it gets, the more people are dropping coverage, or going to high-deductible, catastrophic plans. That's why ACA was passed. It's the insurance industry's last gasp to force us to buy their shitty product. As usual, all we need to do is nothing - get government out of the way and let the market work.

 

[Care4all]

Health care isn't something most people bargain and haggle and shop around for when their kid broke their back And arm, or in a car accident or when diagnosed with cancer etc.... time is usually of the essence and its not like we are simply a customer that can walk away from the "purchase" and wait till it goes on sale...
.

So why do so many americans go to mexico or other countries for health care.? Price always matters, you fool.

because they do not have insurance or can't afford insurance or healthcare in the USA....and they go to Mexico because they have universal healthcare there with no insurance companies getting 1/3 of the cost of health care for just pushing paper...plus workers are paid less in Mexico, Doctors are paid less, nurses are paid less, and pharma drugs are 1/4 the price because these nations can negotiate with the pharma industry for them but Repugs in the USA CONGRESS made it illegal for us to negotiate drug prices with PHARMA, and we in the USA pay for ALL drug research and development, while all other nations in the entire world, who buy PHARMA drugs do not.

When I was on vacation there, I got really really sick, and I had to see a Doctor called to the Hotel, and with his visit, giving me a shot, and a week's worth of antibiotics, it was $25, and no cost for the followup visit 2 days later.

 

[Granny]

You're an idiot.

Nothing in the OP is true.

The board notes that all you have is namecalling. Thanks for admitting i'm right.

the board notes that granny is right....you are an idiot....and a pussy...what do you think of that?....

Whoa! Whoa! Don't attribute that to Granny ... the poster was Grandma!! Thanks!

 

[Maryland Patriot]

60 years ago a night in a hospital cost one day's salary of an average worker. Now it cost's $3,000 which is more like a month's salary.

3000 should be more like two weeks salary, and thats pretty much living at bare minimum

Tyron finds this amusing, I wondered why then I realized.
1500 a week in the metropolitan DC area is not enough for a family of 4 to survive on. I do realize that there are other places in the country that 1500 would have you living like a king. My reference was based on what I know from where I live. even an apartment that would be adequate for 4 would be over 2000 per month in just the rent, then add utilities, food, car payment and the other little things that life throws at you and 3000 every two weeks gets eaten up pretty quick around here.
So, thats what I mean when I say that amount. I wasnt trying to be funny or sound like I was better than others for thinking that way. It is what it is. Im sure if I went somewhere in the midwest or even upstate New York, 1500 a week would be some killer bucks.
anyone else on here that lives in this area can pretty much verify what Im saying is correct for this area.

 

[Granny]

I've had health care insurance since I was covered under my mother's plan. When I started working after high school, I had my own coverage through my employer (I was non-union and had a company policy). Too many years ago to remember if I had to pay for any of the coverage. A good part of the problem is that too many people don't know how to use insurance coverage...just because you have insurance doesn't mean you have to use it for every little thing that comes down the pike.

For example, if you've got a hangnail, briar scratch or minor cold ... go to the pharmacy and get something OTC to take care of it. Stuff like that does not require an ER visit. You can get a lot of information directly from your pharmacist as to which product is most effective and your pharmacist isn't going to charge you for an "consultation." For example, I burned the hell out of my wrist recently and asked my pharmacist what I could use ... her advice was to never use hydrogen peroxide to clean an open wound because it actually has something in it that impedes healing. She also told me to use Polysporin ointment rather than Neosporin because there's something in the Neosporin that aggravates and that element is not in Polysporin. She gave me instructions of proper open wound care and all it cost me was the price of the Polysporin, a non-stick bandage and self-adhesive bandage (only because I was working in a nursing home at the time and could have picked up any kind of bacteria)...outside the nursing home just keep the Polysporin on the wound and let it air heal. Had I gone to the ER there's no telling how many antibiotics they would have prescribed, overpriced wound care stuff, etc., etc. All this indiscriminate use of health insurance drives up the claims and that is part of what drives up premiums.

And the bottom line, in any event, is that it is NOT FREE ... the taxpayers are paying for it for out the nose.

 

[Wry Catcher]

60 years ago most americans did not have health insurance and health care was just fine and much much cheaper than it is now. When people pay their own medical bills three good things happen to keep costs down.

1. People take care of their health and when they got sick, they doctor themselves

2. People haggle with doctors over prices

3. There is very little fraud.

I can see the point of catastrophic health insurance but that should be it.

It was not just fine! You're not only a racist, but one of the most ignorant and dumbest persons who posts on this message board.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

So why do so many americans go to mexico or other countries for health care.? Price always matters, you fool.

because they do not have insurance or can't afford insurance or healthcare in the USA....and they go to Mexico because they have universal healthcare there with no insurance companies getting 1/3 of the cost of health care for just pushing paper.

That's not what i've read. Mexico does not have universal healthcare. The reason there are few insurance companies there is because doctors simply refuse to deal with them. Here's an interesting quote from wikipedia

"While private hospitals account for 2/3 of all hospitals in Mexico with 2,988 institutions, less than 10% of the Mexican population has private insurance coverage, paying for care mainly "out of pocket"."

Healthcare in Mexico - Wikipedia

 

[ShootSpeeders]

It was not just fine! You're not only a racist, but one of the most ignorant and dumbest persons who posts on this message board.

HAHAHA. More namecalling from the loony libs. Thanks for admitting i'm right.

BTW - YOU are the racist since you support affirmative action. I'm an anti-racist.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It was not just fine! You're not only a racist, but one of the most ignorant and dumbest persons who posts on this message board.

HAHAHA. More namecalling from the loony libs. Thanks for admitting i'm right.

BTW - YOU are the racist since you support affirmative action. I'm an anti-racist.

More evidence of your ignorance (and it isn't the willful form): Affirmative Action (AA) was employed to end a wrong. Only fools and of course racists like you still use the term AA. The term today is a consent decree, and that means the hiring authority will reach out to the protected class (protected from asses like you) and recruit and provide education to them so that they can compete on a level playing field with white males (like me). The goal is for the protected class in any community to mirror the demographics of that community.

Would you like a police force composed of only black men? Until the 60's most police and fire agencies were composed of only white males, over the height of 5' 8" in SF. These requirements eliminated more than half of the population of The City. The sky did not fall when equal opportunity became the policy.

 

[Rustic]

It was not just fine! You're not only a racist, but one of the most ignorant and dumbest persons who posts on this message board.

HAHAHA. More namecalling from the loony libs. Thanks for admitting i'm right.

BTW - YOU are the racist since you support affirmative action. I'm an anti-racist.

More evidence of your ignorance (and it isn't the willful form): Affirmative Action (AA) was employed to end a wrong. Only fools and of course racists like you still use the term AA. The term today is a consent decree, and that means the hiring authority will reach out to the protected class (protected from asses like you) and recruit and provide education to them so that they can compete on a level playing field with white males (like me). The goal is for the protected class in any community to mirror the demographics of that community.

Would you like a police force composed of only black men? Until the 60's most police and fire agencies were composed of only white males, over the height of 5' 8" in SF. These requirements eliminated more than half of the population of The City. The sky did not fall when equal opportunity became the policy.

Big government socialism together with affirmative-action has destroyed Indian reservations all across the nation. Fact