Zone1 was i wrong about Zelensky seeming to be a totalitarian corrupt man?

[peacefan]

i'm confused (only slightly though), and stuck in a web/maze of choices surrounding Ukraine :
do we as NATO want to freeze all border changes on a global scale?
do we keep supporting Zelensky, even though his ascent to power was arranged by NATO and the EU, and the fact that there have been a great many victims in the Ukranian population too, that could have been avoided by being more reasonable in negotiations with Russia over their hold of the Black Sea?
do we as NATO want to take over the world? that unipolarism, isn't that group-based meglanomania?
does Zelensky get to keep his true-hero status in western mass media reports?

i may have additional questions on this topic.
and would greatly appreciate any facts / insights / historians' conclusions that will ease my burden...

 

[cnm]

do we as NATO

NATO and the US have quite different wishes...

 

[Grumblenuts]

NATO and the US have quite different wishes...

Such as?..

 

[ESay]

Zelensky is part of the problem. His power should be seriously reduced.

 

[alang1216]

i'm confused (only slightly though), and stuck in a web/maze of choices surrounding Ukraine :
do we as NATO want to freeze all border changes on a global scale?
do we keep supporting Zelensky, even though his ascent to power was arranged by NATO and the EU, and the fact that there have been a great many victims in the Ukranian population too, that could have been avoided by being more reasonable in negotiations with Russia over their hold of the Black Sea?
do we as NATO want to take over the world? that unipolarism, isn't that group-based meglanomania?
does Zelensky get to keep his true-hero status in western mass media reports?

i may have additional questions on this topic.
and would greatly appreciate any facts / insights / historians' conclusions that will ease my burden...

Here is a thought, let the Ukrainians decide what they want to do and, if reasonable, we support them. Oh wait, that is what we are doing. Nevermind.

 

[JoeB131]

i'm confused (only slightly though), and stuck in a web/maze of choices surrounding Ukraine :
do we as NATO want to freeze all border changes on a global scale?
do we keep supporting Zelensky, even though his ascent to power was arranged by NATO and the EU, and the fact that there have been a great many victims in the Ukranian population too, that could have been avoided by being more reasonable in negotiations with Russia over their hold of the Black Sea?
do we as NATO want to take over the world? that unipolarism, isn't that group-based meglanomania?
does Zelensky get to keep his true-hero status in western mass media reports?

i may have additional questions on this topic.
and would greatly appreciate any facts / insights / historians' conclusions that will ease my burden...

The problem here is the "Sunk-Cost" fallacy. Ukraine can't negotiate a treaty that involves ceding any territory to Russia. And Putin can't withdraw at this point after having lost so much blood and treasure. Both countries have taken losses that FAR exceed any practical gains they might achieve at this point.

Blaming NATO for Zelensky is kind of stupid. Did NATO cause the Orange Rebellion? Nope, that was the idiot Russian Stooge who decided the best way to deal with protestors was to shoot them.

My solution would be to cede the Donbas and Crimea to Russia in exchange for returning the occupied Oblasts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia and allowing Ukraine to join NATO and the EU to prevent further Russian aggression. But I can afford to be reasonable, I haven't lost anything in this war.

 

[luiza]

i'm confused (only slightly though), and stuck in a web/maze of choices surrounding Ukraine :
do we as NATO want to freeze all border changes on a global scale?
do we keep supporting Zelensky, even though his ascent to power was arranged by NATO and the EU, and the fact that there have been a great many victims in the Ukranian population too, that could have been avoided by being more reasonable in negotiations with Russia over their hold of the Black Sea?
do we as NATO want to take over the world? that unipolarism, isn't that group-based meglanomania?
does Zelensky get to keep his true-hero status in western mass media reports?

i may have additional questions on this topic.
and would greatly appreciate any facts / insights / historians' conclusions that will ease my burden...

You have a view of NATO that I do not share .
It is very low on funds and has precious few weapon reserves
The conflict is overwhelmingly in Russia’s favour and the outlook for Kyiv is bleak .
They will largely be obliged to Russia’s demands .
Moscow could settle based on forecast moves in theME . If they see fast major escalation then they could want a faster resolution over Ukraine as pragmatic .

 

[peacefan]

You have a view of NATO that I do not share .
It is very low on funds and has precious few weapon reserves
The conflict is overwhelmingly in Russia’s favour and the outlook for Kyiv is bleak .
They will largely be obliged to Russia’s demands .
Moscow could settle based on forecast moves in theME . If they see fast major escalation then they could want a faster resolution over Ukraine as pragmatic .

WW2 cost "only" 6 trillion in inflation-adjusted modern capital.
20yrs of War on Terror cost 8 trillion.
and we can build more weapons factories over here in the west.
we're not nearly as weak as we want to appear.
i don't know, and no longer care, why that is so.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

We don't do want Russia wants, peacefan.

 

[peacefan]

We don't do want Russia wants, peacefan.

huh? your spelling is off, man.

 

[peacefan]

NATO and the US have quite different wishes...

do tell us more if you can.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

We don't do want what Russia wants, peacefan. Thank you for pointing out the error.

Peacefan huh? your spelling is off, man.

 

[peacefan]

Peacefan huh? your spelling is off, man.

so we don't want what Russia wants?

Russia wants control over the Black Sea back.
and in a sharing-the-world-equally multi-polaric environment, i think the Donbass, Crimea, should just be handed back to Russia with minimal fuss in the negotiations to end the Ukraine war.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I think releasing Crimea to Russia officially in return for the four Oblasts returned to Ukraine and that it will join NATO is acceptable. But Zelensky does not listen to me much.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Zelensky is a murdering Nazi and we are giving him the very paychecks out of our pockets. Americans can't afford anything any more, so that he can afford everything...

 

[JoeB131]

Zelensky is a murdering Nazi and we are giving him the very paychecks out of our pockets. Americans can't afford anything any more, so that he can afford everything...

Translation: Zelensky denied the ONE TRUE GOD, Donald Trump.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Translation: Zelensky is a murdering Nazi, and a drain on our paychecks...

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Translation: Zelensky is a murdering Nazi, and a drain on our paychecks...

The paycheck drain comes from the American right supporting Putin.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Utter garbage. Biden has adopted Zelensky and uses our paychecks to give Zelensky what ever he wants.

 

[fncceo]

was i wrong about Zelensky seeming to be a totalitarian corrupt man?​

No.