War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[DriftingSand]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

There is no such thing as wealth inequality. The entire idea presupposes the theory that all persons should have equal amounts of wealth or assets.

Just as ridiculous though is the CEO making 30000X times what his employees are making while they are on welfare. I mean you acknowledge that , right?

When the CEO was a kid he wasn't making that much. When he was a teen he wasn't making that much. As a young college student he wasn't making that much. So why is he making that much now? Because he earned a degree and was literally hired by the corporation. They made a financial offer and he accepted it. What's wrong with that?

Irrelevant. If a company can afford to pay their CEO that wage, they can afford to keep their employees off welfare rolls.

See, left and right have stupid opinions on this subject.

Employees need not "enjoy" their welfare benefits if they show up to work everyday (sober); do what they're hired to do (efficiently); and save their money or spend it wisely. If they don't like their wage or benefits then they are free to get a job elsewhere.

 

[rightwinger]

Employees have a dog in the fight. During an economic downturn, it is the employees who first feel the pinch with lower wages and layoffs

Says a career button pusher. You have obviously never dealt with making payroll. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you can explain employee layoffs to the nice people on this board?

Non-sequitur

It's your claim.....support it

 

[kaz]

Employees have a dog in the fight. During an economic downturn, it is the employees who first feel the pinch with lower wages and layoffs

Says a career button pusher. You have obviously never dealt with making payroll. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you can explain employee layoffs to the nice people on this board?

Non-sequitur

It's your claim.....support it

Support what claim? That employers have to make payroll? Who do you think does it? You actually never have had a job, have you big guy?

 

[rightwinger]

How big does the wealth gap have to get before conservatives will be happy?

Not even an issue with them as long as they can fool themselves into thinking social mobility still exists.

Corporate big dawgs have made it to where you can't even leave your jobs without repercussions in the workforce...

Another loser in your career. Employers compete like crap for good employees. Anyone who is a good employee knows that. Since you don't...

In a good economy, they do
In a shaky economy where employees wonder about their jobs, they are at the mercy of their employer

 

[rightwinger]

Employees have a dog in the fight. During an economic downturn, it is the employees who first feel the pinch with lower wages and layoffs

Says a career button pusher. You have obviously never dealt with making payroll. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you can explain employee layoffs to the nice people on this board?

Non-sequitur

It's your claim.....support it

Support what claim? That employers have to make payroll? Who do you think does it? You actually never have had a job, have you big guy?

Support your claim that employees are not the first to go in an economic downturn

 

[thereisnospoon]

There is no war on the rich, what you see as a war is simply the tension that has always existed in human society between the moneyed class and everyone else. The people with the bulk of the wealth naturally want to run things for their benefit and naturally go too far if allowed. It seems there is always those who side with the elite because they think their livelihood depends on it. Were it actually a war these people would be called "collaborators" but since it is just the natural tension in a stratified society we just call them "conservatives".

We are now in a situation where our wealth class gets it's labor elsewhere and therefore no longer needs our working class nearly as much as in decades past. Wages have stagnated, fringe benefits are not what they used to be, no one was job security anymore, the wealthy have been allowed to openly buy elections and the voice of the great American working class has been all but silenced. From my perspective the war is all but over and the billionaires have won.

The faulty idea is the "us vs them" narrative espoused by the political left.
Look, everyone who works for a living, has a 401k, pension fund, savings vehicle, investment vehicle, etc, has the goal of accumulating more than he has presently.
We purchase real estate for two reasons. One is to occupy the dwelling of our choice. Most importantly we choose that real estate based on the expectation that it will appreciate in value. In short, creation of wealth.
For reasons of political gain, your side has demonized this concept.
Ironically, those who are positions of wealth, have convinced you they are on your side. You follow their words with an uncanny sense of worship. Meanwhile you make these outrageous claims of collaboration. What nonsense.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

There is no such thing as wealth inequality. The entire idea presupposes the theory that all persons should have equal amounts of wealth or assets.

Just as ridiculous though is the CEO making 30000X times what his employees are making while they are on welfare. I mean you acknowledge that , right?

When the CEO was a kid he wasn't making that much. When he was a teen he wasn't making that much. As a young college student he wasn't making that much. So why is he making that much now? Because he earned a degree and was literally hired by the corporation. They made a financial offer and he accepted it. What's wrong with that?

Irrelevant. If a company can afford to pay their CEO that wage, they can afford to keep their employees off welfare rolls.

See, left and right have stupid opinions on this subject.

Employees need not "enjoy" their welfare benefits if they show up to work everyday (sober); do what they're hired to do (efficiently); and save their money or spend it wisely. If they don't like their wage or benefits then they are free to get a job elsewhere.

That is a weak argument made my a child.

There are of course many working class people who are good employees , doing everything that you woud require of them who are earning wages low enough to qualify them for welfare. No doubt about it, its' statistically impossible that it would be any other way.

That is not even germane to the point though. We are a country rooted in FAIRNESS. Whether you like it or not, we will ALWAYS have laws that make business owners play fair with employees. Like it or not, we will always provide assistance to those who need it. So, in the interest of the actual fairness that our country was founded on, why would you possibly support a few CEOs raking in tens of millions of dollars a year while your tax dollars go to supplement the wages they pay that we have deemed are not enough to provide for said employee's basic needs?

It's as nonsensical as claiming that a countries GDP is limited.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Looks to me like the class war is over, the rich won.

Again... This is the kind of propaganda you believe when you think wealth is finite.

Propaganda? If decrying the sorry state of wealth distribution is propaganda then what is your cheerleading for a flawed system that clearly leaves so many in want? Look at the reality of things, sure there is wealth being generated but not by wage earners. We do not have a perfect system, it is not a class war to examine the flaws and attempt to address them.

"sorry state of wealth distribution".....
Ok what is a successful state of wealth distribution?
Oh, take care in your response. I never ask a question to which I already do not have the answer.
However, you can attempt to surprise me. But I'm not expecting anything other than the same tired liberal narrative and talking points.

 

[kaz]

How big does the wealth gap have to get before conservatives will be happy?

Not even an issue with them as long as they can fool themselves into thinking social mobility still exists.

Corporate big dawgs have made it to where you can't even leave your jobs without repercussions in the workforce...

Another loser in your career. Employers compete like crap for good employees. Anyone who is a good employee knows that. Since you don't...

In a good economy, they do
In a shaky economy where employees wonder about their jobs, they are at the mercy of their employer

Where does their employer get the money to pay them?

 

[kaz]

Says a career button pusher. You have obviously never dealt with making payroll. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you can explain employee layoffs to the nice people on this board?

Non-sequitur

It's your claim.....support it

Support what claim? That employers have to make payroll? Who do you think does it? You actually never have had a job, have you big guy?

Support your claim that employees are not the first to go in an economic downturn

I didn't claim that, no wonder I didn't know what you were talking about. You didn't know what you were talking about.

 

[DriftingSand]

There is no such thing as wealth inequality. The entire idea presupposes the theory that all persons should have equal amounts of wealth or assets.

Just as ridiculous though is the CEO making 30000X times what his employees are making while they are on welfare. I mean you acknowledge that , right?

When the CEO was a kid he wasn't making that much. When he was a teen he wasn't making that much. As a young college student he wasn't making that much. So why is he making that much now? Because he earned a degree and was literally hired by the corporation. They made a financial offer and he accepted it. What's wrong with that?

Irrelevant. If a company can afford to pay their CEO that wage, they can afford to keep their employees off welfare rolls.

See, left and right have stupid opinions on this subject.

Employees need not "enjoy" their welfare benefits if they show up to work everyday (sober); do what they're hired to do (efficiently); and save their money or spend it wisely. If they don't like their wage or benefits then they are free to get a job elsewhere.

That is a weak argument made my a child.

There are of course many working class people who are good employees , doing everything that you woud require of them who are earning wages low enough to qualify them for welfare. No doubt about it, its' statistically impossible that it would be any other way.

That is not even germane to the point though. We are a country rooted in FAIRNESS. Whether you like it or not, we will ALWAYS have laws that make business owners play fair with employees. Like it or not, we will always provide assistance to those who need it. So, in the interest of the actual fairness that our country was founded on, why would you possibly support a few CEOs raking in tens of millions of dollars a year while your tax dollars go to supplement the wages they pay that we have deemed are not enough to provide for said employee's basic needs?

It's as nonsensical as claiming that a countries GDP is limited.

I've been working for corporations for many years. I may not like where I am financially in life but I've done little to nothing to change my status. I could complain about it until the cows come home but complaining won't change a thing. When I've grown tired of one corporation I've moved on to another. It's better than living under a bridge or begging for crumbs.

The fact is that you and I are sitting on our asses discussing issues over the internet while many rich businessmen are looking at ledgers and planning business decisions. I actually don't envy the CEOs who have all of that responsibility and who answer to all of those stock holders. It's the stockholders (folks with 401ks, etc.) who want businesses to succeed and who pay the CEO's wage. They don't care what the CEO is making as long as they see a return on their investment.

 

[thereisnospoon]

.

Random thoughts, barfed out onto the screen for all to see:

1. In a symbiotic and interconnected global economy, wealth is not finite and it is not static. "The Rich" do not bury piles of money in the back yard. It moves.

2. This notion that "The Rich" are "job creators" is a nice try, I guess, but not really true other than the fact that their investing and spending contributes to the economy. Which leads me to...

3. Any time an issue becomes politicized, it becomes dumbed down and over-simplified on both ends. And this whole topic has become very politicized.

4. It really isn't that difficult to see that wealth concentration in this country is both a problem and a significant danger, and the Right just doesn't want to admit that. See #3.

5. The Left appears to be completely disinterested in the fact that "The Rich" pay attention to things the Left says and does that create dis-incentives. See #3.

6. The Left appears to have virtually no understanding of, or interest in, the psychology of business. They create dis-incentives (both real and perceived) and wonder why business reacts the way it does.

7. The Right is now so utterly clueless about the importance of messaging and so paralyzed by its libertarian components that it's currently reduced to simplistic, absolutist thinking that makes it an easy target for the Left.

8. When people who have sacrificed, worked hard, stayed disciplined and become successful are looked at with disdain, anger and distrust, you've really turned a corner, and we have. See #6 and #7.

Okay, barf completed.

.

To point #7 I agree. The GOP establishment has no message. There are no ideas coming from the political right. The fault lies with the fear of the expected media coverage being negative. So avoid confrontation and the effort required to explain proposals, mainstream GOP politicians seek to stand on the (R) next to their name.
Our district house member has set up offices around the district. He goes to each office on certain days of the week while Congress is not in session.
This Wednesday, I am going to have a chat with him. He is going to hear exactly what I posted above.
I am going to tell him that we do not care to hear how bad the democrats are. I will tell him with a stern warning behind it that the Republican party better come up with a plane. In other words, just don't tell us the democrats are doing a poor job. We want to know what the republican party plans to do to make things better.
Unfortunately the system does not allow for independent thought in party politics. The leadership sets the agenda. If one does not go along, they stand little chance of being selected to serve ion committees, be placed in positions of leadership, or selection to Chair a committee. And of course, the non conforming member will not be expecting assistance in their campaigns from their party's national committee.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey Boss, how did you amass your 100 million dollar fortune?
You do have 100 million? Right?

If not, why don't you? Wealth is infinite (according to you). So why don't you have more money than you could ever spend in two life times? Why don't we all have 100 million. When something is infinite, we all should have a large share. Makes the world go round easier.

Believe me when I tell you that for a poor person in this country, wealth is finite.
For a middle class person wealth is finite.
For an ultra wealthy person, wealth is not finite. Cause they got all the money to begin with. And when you already have the money and you are able to buy your politicians then amassing great wealth at the expense of others may be infinite.

Certainly the desire from the moneyed class is to amass infinite wealth. So far their plan is working. The ultra wealthy never had it so good. Or had as much money. Or as favorable of tax treatment.

You want some cheese to go with that whine?

 

[georgephillip]

How many of those greedy capitalists collaborated with the Japanese occupation of China? What would you have done in Mao's case, offered to buy some equity?

How many poor people committed crimes in the 1930s? Let's punish them all for that now.

BTW, crony capitalism is a form of socialism, it has nothing to do with capitalism.

Depending on our definition of "socialism" I would argue the socialist wants to build a wall of separation between private wealth and the state while the capitalist, crony or otherwise, doesn't exist without controlling the state.

Capitalist doesn't exist without controlling the State? What the hell are you talking about? How does my competing in the market place mean I need to control the State? And why does the word "Marxist" bother you so much, Karl?

Can you think of any government ever conceived that didn't serve its richest citizens first and foremost? Capitalism creates private wealth more effectively than any other economic system yet devised primarily by socializing cost and privatizing profits. Without a wall of separation between private wealth and the state, the gulf between the very rich and the majority can only get wider since your market is "value neutral" and apportions products solely on the basis of how much money one can afford to pay. In other words, capitalists are gangsters in control of the monopoly of violence.

"Socializing costs?" In what way? Every business owner I've ever known is fully responsible for paying his own overhead. They've always played a balancing act between profit, overhead, and re-investment while putting some of the money earned in his own pocket to pay his personal bills; keep food on the table; and improve his personal quality of life. That's the goal isn't it? Achieving the American Dream and enjoying what life has to offer? Why should a business owner be punished for working hard and earning a better life?

I'm guessing every business owner you've known has been a small business owner and therefore unlikely to to qualify for any significant...

"Corporate welfare is a term that analogizes corporate subsidies to welfare payments for the poor.[1]

"The term is often used to describe a government's bestowal of money grants, tax breaks, or other special favorable treatment on corporations or selected corporations, and implies that corporations are much less needy of such treatment than the poor."

Socializing cost also applies to businesses who pollute groundwater, poison workers and others, and expect government to pay for cleanup.

Corporate welfare - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[1776]

When liberal scum like the Clintons, Obama, Reid, etc talk about making the rich pay their share of taxes, they aren't talking about themselves and their "buddies" that have wealth sitting in banks...they are talking about people earning a paycheck that make millions running a company, playing a pro sport, inventing something, etc....."income taxes."

The liberal scum on the street whining about the rich believe the Democraps are going to target the rich that live in gated communities and live off their wealth in the bank....the DNC has duped them.

 

[Moonglow]

When wealth has become concentrated and not allowed to circulate it is the same as a loss to the economy. One guy or one company is better for it (I guess) but the money supply becomes smaller. The economy is measured not by how much money there is but how much is moving around.

Wow, in this country and all it's wealth, you can't make anything of yourself? Damn there's a lot of money out there to be made by anyone willing to put forth any effort at all. You are a Loser with a capital L.

I am not talking about me, I am talking about everyone, individual success or failure is not the issue here, it's the structural defects in our economy that are making all this trickle down shit a tired old lie by now. Personally I am doing OK because I managed to acquire a marketable skill set but the same opportunities I had are just not there anymore.

You are talking about you because if you are not a failure in your job you would know how easy it is to succeed in this country.

How many illegals do you have to compete with to get a job or to run a construction business.. ?? Many and it's sad to see business leaders and so called great men hiring the illegals.. You sit here and suck the rich's sacs, when they are the ones destroying the working mans base...with cheap infused labor.. And don't tell me it's Oblama's fault, this has been going on through GOP and Dem presidencies for over 40 years. The govt. allows them to stay, wealthy business owners hire them.....debasing the economics of the working American and you think we need to bow down and kiss the rich ones ass!?...You are such a giant tool...

Marxist rhetoric is so persuasive. You don't understand capitalism at all. In a capitalist system, companies, consumers, employees make their own decisions.

What you oppose is crony capitalism, which is a variation of socialism. The idea of government not controlling companies is inconceivable to you, even when you give that power to government and companies turn around and control government.

None of that is capitalism. It's the inevitable end to your socialist dream. Money perverts power. I'm a giant tool, lol, you're the bitch of politicians. And you don't believe companies control government, if you did, the last thing you would want is more government and that's what you beg for.

And yes, you are a loser in your career. What you are spouting is rhetoric you would know is wrong if you actually didn't suck as an employee. Maybe your problem is your bosses know you hate them. You should start by giving a crap about your job.

I wasn't an employee for 35 years, I had a contracting company...So I see that you spewed your usual hateful reply when you can't cover your rich boys asses...
I understand capitalism just fine, It the capitalism without a conscience I don't like...

 

[thereisnospoon]

There is no war on the rich, what you see as a war is simply the tension that has always existed in human society between the moneyed class and everyone else. The people with the bulk of the wealth naturally want to run things for their benefit and naturally go too far if allowed. It seems there is always those who side with the elite because they think their livelihood depends on it. Were it actually a war these people would be called "collaborators" but since it is just the natural tension in a stratified society we just call them "conservatives".

We are now in a situation where our wealth class gets it's labor elsewhere and therefore no longer needs our working class nearly as much as in decades past. Wages have stagnated, fringe benefits are not what they used to be, no one was job security anymore, the wealthy have been allowed to openly buy elections and the voice of the great American working class has been all but silenced. From my perspective the war is all but over and the billionaires have won.

And the billionaires are always going to win, that's my point. How stupid is it to wage a war on an enemy you can never defeat? Blowing cannonballs through your hull in the process. The dumbest idea in the history of man.

All the symptoms you mentioned are the result of waging war on the rich. There are no "classes" in America. People will move in and out of the three levels of 'class' you are distinguishing, numerous times within their lives. No one is relegated to a "class" in our system.

Yes, wealthy people, both liberal and conservative, will try to buy political power... that's why it's important to elect people with high moral character.

Can't beat-em so join them and shut up? Not on your life.

The economic mobility you mention is not what it used to be, it is one of the serious flaws in our system that is going to upset the applecart if allowed to continue.

Money does the talking in America, politics does not attract people of high moral character and never has, putting faith in politicians is foolhardy, they have already shown a willingness to play ball before they get anywhere near national office.

Collective action and mass movements work, too bad all you conservatives see is commies wanting free stuff, all anyone wants is to be able to make hard work mean something more than survival. The life of an American working person is that of a shipwreck survivor treading water, how can anyone be content with that?

More complaining.
What is stopping you from coming up with an idea to make you more financially secure?
"Collective" .....Frightening term.
"The life of an American working person is that of a shipwreck survivor treading water"
That is YOUR point of view. It is a defeatist attitude. You see yourself as never "getting ahead". You are miserable. So your idea is to petition government to make sure your misery is spread equally.
Why do you not try to do something to make you life better? Oh, I am guessing you either enjoy your ability to bitch and complain because it's easy just to do so.
Or, you think to yourself, "yeah I saw that guy I used to know. he has a nice business and makes tons of money, but if I try that, I may fail. So why should I try?"

 

[thereisnospoon]

Nothing wrong with being rich as long as you contribute to the society that supports you

When "society" takes taxpayer dollars and spends $2.6M to study the effects on alcohol among Chinese prostitutes, that is a sign of bloat and "society" has gone beyond support.

Liberals don't see it that way. In fact they ignore waste such as this. They attack anyone who questions this type of thing.
The retort with snarky straw man comments such as " Oh, so we should have no government spending"...Or "you conservatives hate the poor"....

 

[thereisnospoon]

Nothing wrong with being rich as long as you contribute to the society that supports you

When "society" takes taxpayer dollars and spends $2.6M to study the effects on alcohol among Chinese prostitutes, that is a sign of bloat and "society" has gone beyond support.

What was the purpose of that study and what were its findings? Before you proclaim it a waste, maybe you could explain why?

The concept in and of itself is nonsense. No one with more than two functioning brain molecules would even fathom such an idea.
The idea should be met with "who would even be remotely interested in the results of such a study?"
This is typical of hwy government should be operated like a business. Businesses have finite budgets. Business has no funding to waste on such off the wall ideas.
Government does not have to operate this way because it is always possible to use taxation to increase( temporarily) revenue. Politicians simply do not care. They say "fuck 'em. Just spend it."

 

[thereisnospoon]

The rich have been benefitting from a nation built around supply side economics. Low taxes and deregulation. They have used that economic structure to gain more wealth and protect it from taxes
They now feel threatened because those expecting trickle down of some of that wealth saw it never materialize
Thankfully, the rich have people like the OP looking out for their interests

Nice talking points from the lefty playbook. FAIL.
That system which you decry is available to anyone who wishes to participate.
That system has permitted this nation to be the most prosperous on Earth for over 250 years.
That prosperity is realized by those who choose to take full advantage of the system.
The wealthy are not feeling threatened. IN fact none of this has anything to do with wealth.
The entire premise of redistribution, inequality of wealth, wage gaps, wealth gaps, etc is a political agenda designed to use in campaign ads, ten second sound bites and other messaging to gin up support for liberal political candidates. The other purpose is ensure incumbent liberals are entrenched in their positions of power. Ironically to their own self enrichment.