Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[Katzndogz]

Hi Katz,

If marijuana is legalized I can assure you that the cartels, the illegal activities, the lead dusting (which is illegal), it will all be out of the picture (with regards to pot in the US).

We will see legal & non-violent growers pop up, legal distribution networks, and legal retail outlets.

Law abiding companies want NOTHING to do with illegal, non-law abiding companies because doing business with those entities lead to a slew of problems:

1.) You can't bring them to court, hold them accountable
2.) You can't transact in the normal fashion, any tax reporting activities will get flagged
3.) Illegal companies deal in intimidation and violence, which is generally best avoided in the business place.

What's your point?


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You are dreaming. You are dreaming of what you want instead of the reality that will be. Meanwhile, as a pot user, you should really get tested for lead poisoning.

What am I 'dreaming' about (explain Katz, your not elaborating enough)?

Why the heck would a fully legal American company choose to work with an illegal crime syndicate for marijuana when there would be other safer legal growers to choose from that are bound by US laws?

Also, how many powerful illegal alcohol companies do you know of in the US (I really challenge you to answer this question)? Do you think it's a coincidence that the illegal alcohol business took a plunge after it was... legalized?

Al Capone never would have existed without Prohibition. Remember that..
.

Remember that the end of prohibition did not end illegal alcohol sales. The illegal alcohol business was thriving after the end of prohibition. The end of prohibition only ended federal prosecution. Perfectly legal companies choose to work with crime syndicates all the time. Every day. A perfectly legal company that distributes fake oxycontin and knock off handbags will have no problem whatsoever with syndicate provided pot. None.

Do you really think that prohibition enabled the Mafia? There was no organized crime before prohibition. The Mafia alone is hundreds of years old. If perfectly legal companies wouldn't do business with criminals Amsterdam wouldn't have such a problem with organized crime.

You are relying on what you imagine will happen. That is what makes you a dreamer. I am only pointing out where you are wrong. Distribution of lead laced pot will have an ultimate happy ending.

 

[KevinWestern]

Remember that the end of prohibition did not end illegal alcohol sales. The illegal alcohol business was thriving after the end of prohibition. The end of prohibition only ended federal prosecution. Perfectly legal companies choose to work with crime syndicates all the time. Every day. A perfectly legal company that distributes fake oxycontin and knock off handbags will have no problem whatsoever with syndicate provided pot. None.

Do you really think that prohibition enabled the Mafia? There was no organized crime before prohibition. The Mafia alone is hundreds of years old. If perfectly legal companies wouldn't do business with criminals Amsterdam wouldn't have such a problem with organized crime.

You are relying on what you imagine will happen. That is what makes you a dreamer. I am only pointing out where you are wrong. Distribution of lead laced pot will have an ultimate happy ending.

Kat, obviously there is going to be a transition period.

How about instead of (sort of) insulting me and calling me a ‘dreamer’, you answer my question:

How is the illegal alcohol business thriving in the US today (vs the legal alcohol business)? If you want to deter
Too, the mob may have existed before prohibition, but it was prohibition that skyrocked its power to epic proportions. Capone made much of his money through bootlegging (do some research!).

Too, you never answered this question either: why would it make sense for a company to work with the illegal drug cartels (and risk prosecution, high unfair prices, no liability) when they can simply team up with a legal grower in the states who’s regulated and bound with US law? I think the incentives for going the legal route are obvious.

Please, try to answer my questions…


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[MikeK]

Hi Katz,

If marijuana is legalized I can assure you that the cartels, the illegal activities, the lead dusting (which is illegal), it will all be out of the picture (with regards to pot in the US).

We will see legal & non-violent growers pop up, legal distribution networks, and legal retail outlets.

Law abiding companies want NOTHING to do with illegal, non-law abiding companies because doing business with those entities lead to a slew of problems:

1.) You can't bring them to court, hold them accountable
2.) You can't transact in the normal fashion, any tax reporting activities will get flagged
3.) Illegal companies deal in intimidation and violence, which is generally best avoided in the business place.

What's your point?


.

You are dreaming. You are dreaming of what you want instead of the reality that will be. Meanwhile, as a pot user, you should really get tested for lead poisoning.

What am I 'dreaming' about (explain Katz, your not elaborating enough)?

Why the heck would a fully legal American company choose to work with an illegal crime syndicate for marijuana when there would be other safer legal growers to choose from that are bound by US laws?

Also, how many powerful illegal alcohol companies do you know of in the US (I really challenge you to answer this question)? Do you think it's a coincidence that the illegal alcohol business took a plunge after it was... legalized?

Al Capone never would have existed without Prohibition. Remember that..
.

If marijuana is federally legalized the effect on the cartels will be the same as the effect repeal of Prohibition had on booze bootleggers. They became defunct overnight. Their service was no longer required by anyone.

If marijuana is federally legalized its sourcing and production will be supervised and monitored by both federal and state governments. Quality, distribution, and licensing standards will be imposed in states where it is legally available (there presumably will be "dry" states). In time the process of buying marijuana products will resemble that of buying beverage alcohol products under present circumstances.

One major development will be the availability of a wide variety of edible marijuana products, which inevitably will lead to a dramatic reduction in smoking the plant. At my age I look forward to this and I predict that marijuana edibles will quickly become very popular with seniors.

 

[Katzndogz]

Overnight!

This is just going to be fun to watch.

I had a friend who started using pot. She's quite ill now. After reading up on the subject it seems that her symptoms are that of lead poisoning including the palsy she developed. I have not said a word to her since she got her pot card. Moral dilemma. Should I mention a blood test or let it go? I'm inclined to just let it go.

 

[KevinWestern]

Overnight!

This is just going to be fun to watch.

I had a friend who started using pot. She's quite ill now. After reading up on the subject it seems that her symptoms are that of lead poisoning including the palsy she developed. I have not said a word to her since she got her pot card. Moral dilemma. Should I mention a blood test or let it go? I'm inclined to just let it go.

Unless she's buying her marijuana from Russia, I don't think she has to worry about lead being in it.

Come on Katz, try to be reasonable with this. Obviously no legal and regulated company would be allowed to put lead in a product that is to be consumed in the United States.

Remember when there was recall for Chinese made toys with traces of lead?

Anyways, I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing...


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[Katzndogz]

We have mexican candy all over the place with lead in the candy. It's a flavoring and makes candy sweeter. Lead will no doubt make for some very tasty pot cookies.

I know how important it is to you to think that the cartels will just fold up and go live in penury. It just isn't going to happen. At best it will have the same effect as a new cartel breaking into existing markets. Do I care if cartels start hitting legal outlets, or go after customers? Absolutely not. I am looking forward to it. Now that I know that lead has been added to pot since 1986 I don't have any objections to legalization. You are one of the people who say "my dealer is my friend. He would never let me buy something harmful and always tells me how safe his pot is".

 

[KevinWestern]

We have mexican candy all over the place with lead in the candy. It's a flavoring and makes candy sweeter. Lead will no doubt make for some very tasty pot cookies.

I know how important it is to you to think that the cartels will just fold up and go live in penury. It just isn't going to happen. At best it will have the same effect as a new cartel breaking into existing markets. Do I care if cartels start hitting legal outlets, or go after customers? Absolutely not. I am looking forward to it. Now that I know that lead has been added to pot since 1986 I don't have any objections to legalization.

Katz, you really need to read into my arguments a bit more.

I never said the cartels would fold, all I said is that we are going to greatly impact their revenue stream (which is true). We give them money and power by making pot illegal, and I don’t think that’s necessary.

Also, do we have lead in cigarettes? Pipe tobacco? Cigars? Why not?

You are one of the people who say "my dealer is my friend. He would never let me buy something harmful and always tells me how safe his pot is".

So are you confirming that "Yes, it’s much dangerous buying illegal pot because you DON’T know where it’s coming from"? I agree with that 100%.

If it was legal, you would know where it’s coming from and would be able to verify whether or not anything’s been added (because it will be regulated).

Are you trying to bolster my argument?

.

 

[KevinWestern]

What makes any of you think that legalized marijuana would be produced and marketed any differently than tobacco?

Who cares? I don't see how this is an argument for prohibition of a substance.


.

 

[Katzndogz]

Remember that the end of prohibition did not end illegal alcohol sales. The illegal alcohol business was thriving after the end of prohibition. The end of prohibition only ended federal prosecution. Perfectly legal companies choose to work with crime syndicates all the time. Every day. A perfectly legal company that distributes fake oxycontin and knock off handbags will have no problem whatsoever with syndicate provided pot. None.

Do you really think that prohibition enabled the Mafia? There was no organized crime before prohibition. The Mafia alone is hundreds of years old. If perfectly legal companies wouldn't do business with criminals Amsterdam wouldn't have such a problem with organized crime.

You are relying on what you imagine will happen. That is what makes you a dreamer. I am only pointing out where you are wrong. Distribution of lead laced pot will have an ultimate happy ending.

Kat, obviously there is going to be a transition period.

How about instead of (sort of) insulting me and calling me a ‘dreamer’, you answer my question:

How is the illegal alcohol business thriving in the US today (vs the legal alcohol business)? If you want to deter
Too, the mob may have existed before prohibition, but it was prohibition that skyrocked its power to epic proportions. Capone made much of his money through bootlegging (do some research!).

Too, you never answered this question either: why would it make sense for a company to work with the illegal drug cartels (and risk prosecution, high unfair prices, no liability) when they can simply team up with a legal grower in the states who’s regulated and bound with US law? I think the incentives for going the legal route are obvious.

Please, try to answer my questions…


.

Money and competition. The cartels will undercut the price of the legal grower who has to fumble around with regulations. Customers will keep buying from old reliable drug dealer because the won't have to pay tax. The cartels will do just what they did in Los Angeled. Open their own outlets selling their own product. By the time prohibition ended organized crime knew they had made a terrible miscalculation. They controlled manufacture and distribution. They didn't own the stores or the bars. They were reduced to protection rackets. At least until they got into drug distribution. Today's organized crime won't make that mistake. Today's marijuana shops increase their profit by selling much more than marijuana. Present it the right way and you can pick up a ten year old from Thailand.

 

[KevinWestern]

Remember that the end of prohibition did not end illegal alcohol sales. The illegal alcohol business was thriving after the end of prohibition. The end of prohibition only ended federal prosecution. Perfectly legal companies choose to work with crime syndicates all the time. Every day. A perfectly legal company that distributes fake oxycontin and knock off handbags will have no problem whatsoever with syndicate provided pot. None.

Do you really think that prohibition enabled the Mafia? There was no organized crime before prohibition. The Mafia alone is hundreds of years old. If perfectly legal companies wouldn't do business with criminals Amsterdam wouldn't have such a problem with organized crime.

You are relying on what you imagine will happen. That is what makes you a dreamer. I am only pointing out where you are wrong. Distribution of lead laced pot will have an ultimate happy ending.

Kat, obviously there is going to be a transition period.

How about instead of (sort of) insulting me and calling me a ‘dreamer’, you answer my question:

How is the illegal alcohol business thriving in the US today (vs the legal alcohol business)? If you want to deter
Too, the mob may have existed before prohibition, but it was prohibition that skyrocked its power to epic proportions. Capone made much of his money through bootlegging (do some research!).

Too, you never answered this question either: why would it make sense for a company to work with the illegal drug cartels (and risk prosecution, high unfair prices, no liability) when they can simply team up with a legal grower in the states who’s regulated and bound with US law? I think the incentives for going the legal route are obvious.

Please, try to answer my questions…


.

Money and competition. The cartels will undercut the price of the legal grower who has to fumble around with regulations. Customers will keep buying from old reliable drug dealer because the won't have to pay tax. The cartels will do just what they did in Los Angeled. Open their own outlets selling their own product. By the time prohibition ended organized crime knew they had made a terrible miscalculation. They controlled manufacture and distribution. They didn't own the stores or the bars. They were reduced to protection rackets. At least until they got into drug distribution. Today's organized crime won't make that mistake. Today's marijuana shops increase their profit by selling much more than marijuana. Present it the right way and you can pick up a ten year old from Thailand.

Does the illegal alcohol business win out over the heavily regulated (super regulated!) legal alcohol business in the US because its cheaper for them to produce?

What do you think? Should I call my bootlegger tonight to see if he's got a new supply of whiskey from Wisconsin? Lol.





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[PaulS1950]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.
Clinics in those states where pot is legally a medicinal herb do not buy from illegal sources, they grow their own in order to maintain a pure product. Only the "black market" pot is laced with other chemicals and compounds to change the weight and characteristics of the herb. "Legal marijuana" is tested for THC content and purity in all aspects of its handling and processing. It is the best you can get and a lot cheaper than any "black market" pot available anywhere.

 

[jwoodie]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.

Sound like cigarette advertising in the 1950's.

 

[KevinWestern]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.

Sound like cigarette advertising in the 1950's.

Nicotine is the addictive substance in cigarettes, what's the addictive substance in Pot?

 

[Katzndogz]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.
Clinics in those states where pot is legally a medicinal herb do not buy from illegal sources, they grow their own in order to maintain a pure product. Only the "black market" pot is laced with other chemicals and compounds to change the weight and characteristics of the herb. "Legal marijuana" is tested for THC content and purity in all aspects of its handling and processing. It is the best you can get and a lot cheaper than any "black market" pot available anywhere.

They buy from illegal sources. Most of the time the pot shops are owned by the cartels who sell their own product through these "legal" means.

 

[Katzndogz]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.

Sound like cigarette advertising in the 1950's.

Nicotine is the addictive substance in cigarettes, what's the addictive substance in Pot?

Marijuana | Brown University Health Education

No one would argue that marijuana is as addictive as alcohol or cocaine. However, it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users.

For a small percentage of people who use it, marijuana can be highly addictive. It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent. In 2006 marijuana was responsible for 16% of all admissions to treatment facilities in the U.S. Because the consequences of marijuana use can be subtle and insidious, it is more difficult to recognize signs of addiction. Cultural and societal beliefs that marijuana cannot be addictive make it less likely for people to seek help or to get support for quitting.

 

[PaulS1950]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.
Clinics in those states where pot is legally a medicinal herb do not buy from illegal sources, they grow their own in order to maintain a pure product. Only the "black market" pot is laced with other chemicals and compounds to change the weight and characteristics of the herb. "Legal marijuana" is tested for THC content and purity in all aspects of its handling and processing. It is the best you can get and a lot cheaper than any "black market" pot available anywhere.

They buy from illegal sources. Most of the time the pot shops are owned by the cartels who sell their own product through these "legal" means.

Show your sources for the affirmation that state legal clinics buy from illegal sources.

 

[Katzndogz]

I gave in. Against my inclination, I did tell the woman I know that her symptoms might be explained by lead poisoning from the marijuana (legal, from a legal clinic) she's been using.

 

[PaulS1950]

I have been around pot smokers since the mid-60s. I have never smoked or eaten it but I have never seen any symptoms of addictions. No tollerance to the drug has been apparent and no withdrawal symptoms. My observations are only anecdotal but since there have been very few actual research studies done on the drug since then I would like to see your referrences to this information.
There is a big difference between addiction and dependence. Addictive drugs require more and more drug to maintain "normalcy" until the dosage builds to the point of overdose and addiction also requires gradual degredation of the body's systems until systemic failure occurs.
Dependence can be anything from habitual (the muscles become attuned to repetative movement) to enjoying the "down time" that one gets similar to fishing or a cup of warm milk before bed which are emotional responces and not chemical in nature at all. The mind misses the activity but the body is not physically addicted to it.
Please show the studies you are quoting from.

 

[Katzndogz]

First, pot is not addictive. It can be habitual but it is NEVER addictive.
Clinics in those states where pot is legally a medicinal herb do not buy from illegal sources, they grow their own in order to maintain a pure product. Only the "black market" pot is laced with other chemicals and compounds to change the weight and characteristics of the herb. "Legal marijuana" is tested for THC content and purity in all aspects of its handling and processing. It is the best you can get and a lot cheaper than any "black market" pot available anywhere.

They buy from illegal sources. Most of the time the pot shops are owned by the cartels who sell their own product through these "legal" means.

Show your sources for the affirmation that state legal clinics buy from illegal sources.

To begin with, there are enough legal clinics around here to know.
For another.

Report: Mexican Drug Cartels Infiltrating Calif. Medical Pot Industry

In Colorado

Colorado 420 Coalition

[News] Beware of RUSSIAN Owned Dispensary's - News & Political Discussion - WeedTRACKER

Most ordinary citizens are profoundly ignorant. Criminals are two steps ahead of you right now. They have always been two steps ahead of you and always will be. By the time the ordinary citizen has muddled around and figured out that making illicit money off pot is impossible, criminals have already figured out 20 ways they can still make a fortune. How long have we had legal gambling and horse racing? Has one bookie been put out of business?

 

[KevinWestern]

They buy from illegal sources. Most of the time the pot shops are owned by the cartels who sell their own product through these "legal" means.

Show your sources for the affirmation that state legal clinics buy from illegal sources.

To begin with, there are enough legal clinics around here to know.
For another.

Report: Mexican Drug Cartels Infiltrating Calif. Medical Pot Industry

In Colorado

Colorado 420 Coalition

[News] Beware of RUSSIAN Owned Dispensary's - News & Political Discussion - WeedTRACKER

Most ordinary citizens are profoundly ignorant. Criminals are two steps ahead of you right now. They have always been two steps ahead of you and always will be. By the time the ordinary citizen has muddled around and figured out that making illicit money off pot is impossible, criminals have already figured out 20 ways they can still make a fortune. How long have we had legal gambling and horse racing? Has one bookie been put out of business?

Again Katz, (I don't think you answered me the first time) do criminals run companies like Budweiser, Maker's Mark, Jack Daniels, and Miller? Are criminals in charge of the distribution channels?

This is a historical precedent that we should reference when talking about a prohibited drug becoming a legal one.

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