Walter Cronkite's Ridiculous Spin on the 1968 Tet Offensive in South Vietnam

[Soupnazi630]

Soupnazi is a complete space cadet, i have proved him wrong several times it was Diem who refused elections after Geneva, even quoting Diem himself, yet the clown still says it was Mihn he is a crackpot.

No you have not

You have been disproven

I have proven minh refused elections and started the war

 

[Soupnazi630]

The point is whatever way they run their country it is their choice, not some violent Colonialist scum.

Correct the violent coloniats communist scum invaded south vietnam

 

[Soupnazi630]

What matters is that the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted Ho Chi Minh to be their leader, and Vietnam was unimportant to our security or our economy.

Nevertheless, we devastated Vietnam and killed about two million Vietnamese. How was that justifiable?

If we cared about the Vietnamese who did not support Ho Chi Minh we should have evacuated them to the United States. I have known Vietnamese war refugees. They are good people.

Wrong

That claim that the majority supported mninh is fiction

We did not kill two million

The country was not devasted

 

[Hector12]

Wrong

That claim that the majority supported mninh is fiction

We did not kill two million

The country was not devasted

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

msuweb.montclair.edu

-------------

In 1995, the Vietnamese government released its estimate of war deaths for the more lengthy period of 1955–75. PAVN and VC losses were reported as 1.1 million dead and civilian deaths of Vietnamese on both sides totaled 2.0 million. These estimates probably include deaths of Vietnamese soldiers in Laos and Cambodia, but do not include deaths of South Vietnamese and allied soldiers which would add nearly 300,000 for a grand total of 3.4 million military and civilian dead.[6]

A 2008 study by the BMJ (formerly British Medical Journal) came up with a higher toll of 3,812,000 dead in Vietnam between 1955–2002. For the period of the Vietnam War the totals are 1,310,000 between 1955 and 1964, 1,700,000 between 1965–74 and 810,000 between 1975 and 1984. (The estimates for 1955–64 are much higher than other estimates). The sum of those totals is 3,091,000 war deaths between 1955–75.[5]

Uppsala University in Sweden maintains the Armed Conflict Database. Their estimates for conflict deaths in Vietnam are 164,923 from 1955–64 and 1,458,050 from 1965–75 for a total of 1,622,973. The database also estimates combat deaths in Cambodia for the years 1967–75 to total 259,000. Data for deaths in Laos is incomplete.[7]

R. J. Rummel's mid-range estimate in 1997 was that the total deaths due to the Vietnam War totaled 2,450,000 from 1954–75. Rummel calculated PAVN/VC deaths at 1,062,000 and ARVN and allied war deaths of 741,000, with both totals including civilians inadvertently killed. He estimated that victims of democide (deliberate killing of civilians) included 214,000 by North Vietnam/VC and 98,000 by South Vietnam and its allies. Deaths in Cambodia and Laos were estimated at 273,000 and 62,000 respectively.[8]

Vietnam War casualties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-------------

Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia—double the amount dropped on Europe and Asia during World War II. Pound for pound, it remains the largest aerial bombardment in human history.

Bombing missions of the Vietnam War

A visual record of the largest aerial bombardment in history

storymaps.arcgis.com

 

[Deadstick]

Correct the violent coloniats communist scum invaded south vietnam

 

[Deadstick]

There was a difference between siding with the Communists and concluding that the South Vietnamese government was not worth fighting for.

I thought Goebbels was a great propagandist but looks like millions of Americans have brought every argument down to Communists and non communists and no room for anything in between, i blame Hollywood and the Dr Strangelove insanity.

 

[Deadstick]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

msuweb.montclair.edu

-------------

In 1995, the Vietnamese government released its estimate of war deaths for the more lengthy period of 1955–75. PAVN and VC losses were reported as 1.1 million dead and civilian deaths of Vietnamese on both sides totaled 2.0 million. These estimates probably include deaths of Vietnamese soldiers in Laos and Cambodia, but do not include deaths of South Vietnamese and allied soldiers which would add nearly 300,000 for a grand total of 3.4 million military and civilian dead.[6]

A 2008 study by the BMJ (formerly British Medical Journal) came up with a higher toll of 3,812,000 dead in Vietnam between 1955–2002. For the period of the Vietnam War the totals are 1,310,000 between 1955 and 1964, 1,700,000 between 1965–74 and 810,000 between 1975 and 1984. (The estimates for 1955–64 are much higher than other estimates). The sum of those totals is 3,091,000 war deaths between 1955–75.[5]

Uppsala University in Sweden maintains the Armed Conflict Database. Their estimates for conflict deaths in Vietnam are 164,923 from 1955–64 and 1,458,050 from 1965–75 for a total of 1,622,973. The database also estimates combat deaths in Cambodia for the years 1967–75 to total 259,000. Data for deaths in Laos is incomplete.[7]

R. J. Rummel's mid-range estimate in 1997 was that the total deaths due to the Vietnam War totaled 2,450,000 from 1954–75. Rummel calculated PAVN/VC deaths at 1,062,000 and ARVN and allied war deaths of 741,000, with both totals including civilians inadvertently killed. He estimated that victims of democide (deliberate killing of civilians) included 214,000 by North Vietnam/VC and 98,000 by South Vietnam and its allies. Deaths in Cambodia and Laos were estimated at 273,000 and 62,000 respectively.[8]

Vietnam War casualties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-------------

Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia—double the amount dropped on Europe and Asia during World War II. Pound for pound, it remains the largest aerial bombardment in human history.

Bombing missions of the Vietnam War

A visual record of the largest aerial bombardment in history

storymaps.arcgis.com

Don't waste time with that clown he lives in his own version of the Truman Show.

 

[Soupnazi630]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

msuweb.montclair.edu

-------------

In 1995, the Vietnamese government released its estimate of war deaths for the more lengthy period of 1955–75. PAVN and VC losses were reported as 1.1 million dead and civilian deaths of Vietnamese on both sides totaled 2.0 million. These estimates probably include deaths of Vietnamese soldiers in Laos and Cambodia, but do not include deaths of South Vietnamese and allied soldiers which would add nearly 300,000 for a grand total of 3.4 million military and civilian dead.[6]

A 2008 study by the BMJ (formerly British Medical Journal) came up with a higher toll of 3,812,000 dead in Vietnam between 1955–2002. For the period of the Vietnam War the totals are 1,310,000 between 1955 and 1964, 1,700,000 between 1965–74 and 810,000 between 1975 and 1984. (The estimates for 1955–64 are much higher than other estimates). The sum of those totals is 3,091,000 war deaths between 1955–75.[5]

Uppsala University in Sweden maintains the Armed Conflict Database. Their estimates for conflict deaths in Vietnam are 164,923 from 1955–64 and 1,458,050 from 1965–75 for a total of 1,622,973. The database also estimates combat deaths in Cambodia for the years 1967–75 to total 259,000. Data for deaths in Laos is incomplete.[7]

R. J. Rummel's mid-range estimate in 1997 was that the total deaths due to the Vietnam War totaled 2,450,000 from 1954–75. Rummel calculated PAVN/VC deaths at 1,062,000 and ARVN and allied war deaths of 741,000, with both totals including civilians inadvertently killed. He estimated that victims of democide (deliberate killing of civilians) included 214,000 by North Vietnam/VC and 98,000 by South Vietnam and its allies. Deaths in Cambodia and Laos were estimated at 273,000 and 62,000 respectively.[8]

Vietnam War casualties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-------------

Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia—double the amount dropped on Europe and Asia during World War II. Pound for pound, it remains the largest aerial bombardment in human history.

Bombing missions of the Vietnam War

A visual record of the largest aerial bombardment in history

storymaps.arcgis.com

You lost that argument in previous posts

yes Ike was afvised Minh could win. But that is irrelevant. There was no permission to be held or withheld by the US.

We did not deny them permission. It was there election to hold.

Those numbers are bullshit as they keep increasing with no actually researcg study or accounting, They are propoganda'


Nor do they specifify who did the killing and most of it was done by the North

tonnage of bombs means nothing when most of it is dropped on empty jungle

 

[Soupnazi630]

Don't waste time with that clown he lives in his own version of the Truman Show.

You do not tell others what to say or think and you are no guardian of truth
I have PROVEN you wrong and a liasr with facts and you know it

You are brainwashed and shovel more proven propoganda than anyone here

 

[Weatherman2020]

Common sense and my knowledge of the War in Vietnam. American troops and the Army of Vietnam outnumbered the Communists by about three to one. We out spent them by about ten to won. They still won, and they won big time.

.

The political Left won the war for the Communists.

Vietnamese have no stomach for Communism.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Intelligent Americans do not kill and die for causes not worth killing and dying for.

Stabbed in the Back Back Home

Even though the dodgers took over the narrative, independent minds should ignore these excuses justifying the unpatriotic cowards who ran away to college to avoid having to fight World Communism.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Shitforbrains The Sage of Main Street thinks the Tet offense was of military importance.

A Show of Strength Doesn't Have to Show It All

There was a Republican President a year later. If the Communists had been easily beatable after the Tet Offensive, he would have certainly finished them off. He didn't because he knew they could easily pull off another Tet Offensive. So making this about the weak-kneed Democrats is easily contradicted, as are all other political slogans.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There was a difference between siding with the Communists and concluding that the South Vietnamese government was not worth fighting for.

In World War II, Did We Fight for the Vichy French?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

msuweb.montclair.edu

-------------

In 1995, the Vietnamese government released its estimate of war deaths for the more lengthy period of 1955–75. PAVN and VC losses were reported as 1.1 million dead and civilian deaths of Vietnamese on both sides totaled 2.0 million. These estimates probably include deaths of Vietnamese soldiers in Laos and Cambodia, but do not include deaths of South Vietnamese and allied soldiers which would add nearly 300,000 for a grand total of 3.4 million military and civilian dead.[6]

A 2008 study by the BMJ (formerly British Medical Journal) came up with a higher toll of 3,812,000 dead in Vietnam between 1955–2002. For the period of the Vietnam War the totals are 1,310,000 between 1955 and 1964, 1,700,000 between 1965–74 and 810,000 between 1975 and 1984. (The estimates for 1955–64 are much higher than other estimates). The sum of those totals is 3,091,000 war deaths between 1955–75.[5]

Uppsala University in Sweden maintains the Armed Conflict Database. Their estimates for conflict deaths in Vietnam are 164,923 from 1955–64 and 1,458,050 from 1965–75 for a total of 1,622,973. The database also estimates combat deaths in Cambodia for the years 1967–75 to total 259,000. Data for deaths in Laos is incomplete.[7]

R. J. Rummel's mid-range estimate in 1997 was that the total deaths due to the Vietnam War totaled 2,450,000 from 1954–75. Rummel calculated PAVN/VC deaths at 1,062,000 and ARVN and allied war deaths of 741,000, with both totals including civilians inadvertently killed. He estimated that victims of democide (deliberate killing of civilians) included 214,000 by North Vietnam/VC and 98,000 by South Vietnam and its allies. Deaths in Cambodia and Laos were estimated at 273,000 and 62,000 respectively.[8]

Vietnam War casualties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-------------

Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia—double the amount dropped on Europe and Asia during World War II. Pound for pound, it remains the largest aerial bombardment in human history.

Bombing missions of the Vietnam War

A visual record of the largest aerial bombardment in history

storymaps.arcgis.com

Irrelevant

 

[Deadstick]

Stabbed in the Back Back Home

Even though the dodgers took over the narrative, independent minds should ignore these excuses justifying the unpatriotic cowards who ran away to college to avoid having to fight World Communism.

World communism my arse, do you actually believe Vietnam was about World Communism ? we heard the same bullshit about the ANC fighting the Nazi Apartheid Regime, both those were about national liberation as were many civil conflicts in Central America.

 

[Hector12]

Stabbed in the Back Back Home

Even though the dodgers took over the narrative, independent minds should ignore these excuses justifying the unpatriotic cowards who ran away to college to avoid having to fight World Communism.

By the end of the War in Vietnam there had been border clashes between the Soviet Union and Communist China. After the Vietnamese Communists defeated us they invaded Cambodia to stop the Communist Pol Pot regime from killing Cambodians. In the spring of 1979 The Army of Communist Chin a invaded Communist Vietnam. The Communist Army of Vietnam repelled the invasion of the Communist Army of China in a few months, killing about 20,000 Communist Chinese soldiers.

There is your "World Communism." Communist countries were busy fighting each other.

 

[Deadstick]

By the end of the War in Vietnam there had been border clashes between the Soviet Union and Communist China. After the Vietnamese Communists defeated us they invaded Cambodia to stop the Communist Pol Pot regime from killing Cambodians. In the spring of 1979 The Army of Communist Chin a invaded Communist Vietnam. The Communist Army of Vietnam repelled the invasion of the Communist Army of China in a few months, killing about 20,000 Communist Chinese soldiers.

There is your "World Communism." Communist countries were busy fighting each other.

Yes the Vietnamese army liberated Cambodia from the madman Pol Pot, the Empire never forgave them for it, at the time the Khemer Rouge were attacking an area called the parrots beak in Vietnam killing Vietnamese, so Vietnam went in, it ended with Reagan and Thatcher supporting the Cambodian Monarchists and the Khemer Rouge to attack the Vietnamese liberators, sound familiar?

 

[Deadstick]

In World War II, Did We Fight for the Vichy French?

The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, and sent Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. President Franklin Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull hoped to use American influence to encourage those elements in the Vichy government opposed to military collaboration with Germany.[6]

 

[Deadstick]

The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, and sent Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. President Franklin Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull hoped to use American influence to encourage those elements in the Vichy government opposed to military collaboration with Germany.[6]

Churchill was pissed off about it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

A Show of Strength Doesn't Have to Show It All

There was a Republican President a year later. If the Communists had been easily beatable after the Tet Offensive, he would have certainly finished them off. He didn't because he knew they could easily pull off another Tet Offensive. So making this about the weak-kneed Democrats is easily contradicted, as are all other political slogans.

The political war was already lost in 1969. The only thing possible for Nixon was to figure a way out.