VOX: "Obamacare’s individual mandate is unpopular. But it’s crucial to making Obamacare work"

[MadChemist]

Yes, i'm sure you heard that on Hate Radio once, and you think it's true.

Old people go to the doctor because they are sick. Guess what, old people get lonely in Single Payer countries, and they actually manage to live longer.

This is the kind of thing that reveals you as someone who worships a fantasy.....

1. I don't listen to hate radio.
2. The first time I heard about it was from a doctor friend.
3. It has been written on repeatedly:

UGA study: Older adults might find a doctor’s visit like seeing a friend

"This finding made sense to us," Jayawardhana said. "You build a relationship with your physician over the years, so a visit to the doctor's office is like seeing a friend. Hospitalizations, on the other hand, require a referral from a doctor, and you don't know who you will see."

Treating the loneliness epidemic: elderly people visiting doctors for social interaction

Elderly people booking GP appointments just to avoid being lonely

And you can find a host of them.

It is funny that someone who is loud-mouthed as you are about our current health care system could be so ignorant on such a topic. It is a real issue.

More and more it is evident you are on this board to spout a POV and not to share information or discuss matters.

 

[MadChemist]

1. Taking 9 (or even 10) figures away won't even hit the radar screen.

Sure it will.

No it won't.

9 figures is still in the millions.....

Health care is in the trillions....

In between you have billions.......

So, you don't hit the radar screen.

It's funny you are so sure of such an answer when the math shows how wrong you are.

The only difference it will make is in giving you some strange sense of satisfaction that might calm your bitterness and resentfullness at some leve.

I don't like that anyone makes that much money. It only happens because we allow it to, in the marketplace.

 

[MadChemist]

I think it will take a while to get rid of the insurance companies, but it shouldn't. Here's how you drive them out of business. You set up a public option that has better benefits, for less money, and everyone has the right to pick that instead of private insurance.

Yes...it's that easy.

 

[dblack]

Yes, i'm sure you heard that on Hate Radio once, and you think it's true.

Old people go to the doctor because they are sick. Guess what, old people get lonely in Single Payer countries, and they actually manage to live longer.

This is the kind of thing that reveals you as someone who worships a fantasy.....

1. I don't listen to hate radio.
2. The first time I heard about it was from a doctor friend.
3. It has been written on repeatedly:

UGA study: Older adults might find a doctor’s visit like seeing a friend

"This finding made sense to us," Jayawardhana said. "You build a relationship with your physician over the years, so a visit to the doctor's office is like seeing a friend. Hospitalizations, on the other hand, require a referral from a doctor, and you don't know who you will see."

Treating the loneliness epidemic: elderly people visiting doctors for social interaction

Elderly people booking GP appointments just to avoid being lonely

And you can find a host of them.

It is funny that someone who is loud-mouthed as you are about our current health care system could be so ignorant on such a topic. It is a real issue.

More and more it is evident you are on this board to spout a POV and not to share information or discuss matters.

I used to hear about this from my brother-in-law, a doctor, completely outside the context of health care reform. He even mentioned they were mostly just there for the company and the attention.

 

[MadChemist]

Yes, i'm sure you heard that on Hate Radio once, and you think it's true.

Old people go to the doctor because they are sick. Guess what, old people get lonely in Single Payer countries, and they actually manage to live longer.

This is the kind of thing that reveals you as someone who worships a fantasy.....

1. I don't listen to hate radio.
2. The first time I heard about it was from a doctor friend.
3. It has been written on repeatedly:

UGA study: Older adults might find a doctor’s visit like seeing a friend

"This finding made sense to us," Jayawardhana said. "You build a relationship with your physician over the years, so a visit to the doctor's office is like seeing a friend. Hospitalizations, on the other hand, require a referral from a doctor, and you don't know who you will see."

Treating the loneliness epidemic: elderly people visiting doctors for social interaction

Elderly people booking GP appointments just to avoid being lonely

And you can find a host of them.

It is funny that someone who is loud-mouthed as you are about our current health care system could be so ignorant on such a topic. It is a real issue.

More and more it is evident you are on this board to spout a POV and not to share information or discuss matters.

I used to hear about this from my brother-in-law, a doctor, completely outside the context of health care reform. He even mentioned they were mostly just there for the company and the attention.

I am about done with this guy.

It is very clear that he has single payer tatooed somewhere on his body.

What makes this even worse is that it is medicare that pays for this and so those who abuse the system feel next to no pain for abusing the system.

And it goes even further.

My wife is a nurse. According to her, there were certain individuals you could count on showing up on a routine basis. In some cases, they were cranky old farts and when the kids got tired of them, they caught a cold or something and had to go to the hospital for a week or two. There were other cases where the elderly wound up in the hospital because there was some big family deal going on and they didn't want to be a part of it.

My wife indicated that some were called "Holiday Inners" while others were simply called "vacationers'.

There is also the practice of "Granny Dumping". It is sad.

It happens and it exists. But SINGLE PAYER will solve all these problems, after all, the rest of the civilized world does it (but not all of them really do it).

I would be interested in your thoughts on what a good system would look like. I just plan on not reading any of Joe's posts. It is quite clear that he isn't interested in any "truth" that does not fit the reality in his mind.

 

[ScorpioRising007]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

I actually agree with the Mandate I think it is a great idea. Everyone should be on health insurance and if someone can't afford to buy Obamacare then the taxpayers buy the insurance for that person plain and simple. They go to the hospital taxpayers pay all that person's medical bills.

It is the Christian thing to do.

 

[MadChemist]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

I actually agree with the Mandate I think it is a great idea. Everyone should be on health insurance and if someone can't afford to buy Obamacare then the taxpayers buy the insurance for that person plain and simple. They go to the hospital taxpayers pay all that person's medical bills.

It is the Christian thing to do.

It's Christian to take people's liberty (in the form of private property) from them ?

Who knew that being a Christian allowed you to lord over others ?

 

[dblack]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

I actually agree with the Mandate I think it is a great idea. Everyone should be on health insurance and if someone can't afford to buy Obamacare then the taxpayers buy the insurance for that person plain and simple. They go to the hospital taxpayers pay all that person's medical bills.

It is the Christian thing to do.

It's Christian to take people's liberty (in the form of private property) from them ?

Who knew that being a Christian allowed you to lord over others ?

Fortunately, we're not a theocracy. Christians can do their Christian thing, and leave the rest of us alone.

 

[MadChemist]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

I actually agree with the Mandate I think it is a great idea. Everyone should be on health insurance and if someone can't afford to buy Obamacare then the taxpayers buy the insurance for that person plain and simple. They go to the hospital taxpayers pay all that person's medical bills.

It is the Christian thing to do.

It's Christian to take people's liberty (in the form of private property) from them ?

Who knew that being a Christian allowed you to lord over others ?

Fortunately, we're not a theocracy. Christians can do their Christian thing, and leave the rest of us alone.

But, you have someone who is saying taxpayers "should" saying it is the Christian thing to do.

It would seem that he/she believes we do live in something of a theocracy.

 

[dblack]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

I actually agree with the Mandate I think it is a great idea. Everyone should be on health insurance and if someone can't afford to buy Obamacare then the taxpayers buy the insurance for that person plain and simple. They go to the hospital taxpayers pay all that person's medical bills.

It is the Christian thing to do.

It's Christian to take people's liberty (in the form of private property) from them ?

Who knew that being a Christian allowed you to lord over others ?

Fortunately, we're not a theocracy. Christians can do their Christian thing, and leave the rest of us alone.

But, you have someone who is saying taxpayers "should" saying it is the Christian thing to do.

It would seem that he/she believes we do live in something of a theocracy.

I don't think they think of the state in those terms. The ubiquitous state touches everything, so sure, religion is part of it too. The point is, to them, government is the be-all, end-all expression of society.

 

[JoeB131]

The only place where Dishonest people thrive is as a Democrat politicians. The free markets crushes dishonest merchants

NO, it doesn't. Do you really want me to go through the litany of corrupt industries? Like the Tobacco industry marketing to kids, or Ford deciding that it was cheaper to pay people killed in Pinto explosions than actually fixing all the Pintos?

You really don't, know, at all, anything about liberty. To you it's just people "whining" because they don't want government dictating our every move. Go fuck yourself.

Guy, i know if I am living in mortal fear that a tumor is going to wipe me out financially, and a big insurance company is doing a cost benefit analysis on whether or not I should live or die, that's not liberty, it's plutocracy.

You idiot libertarians have been told government is your enemy, when you real enemy are the ones who have half of everything and still want more.

 

[MadChemist]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

I actually agree with the Mandate I think it is a great idea. Everyone should be on health insurance and if someone can't afford to buy Obamacare then the taxpayers buy the insurance for that person plain and simple. They go to the hospital taxpayers pay all that person's medical bills.

It is the Christian thing to do.

It's Christian to take people's liberty (in the form of private property) from them ?

Who knew that being a Christian allowed you to lord over others ?

Fortunately, we're not a theocracy. Christians can do their Christian thing, and leave the rest of us alone.

But, you have someone who is saying taxpayers "should" saying it is the Christian thing to do.

It would seem that he/she believes we do live in something of a theocracy.

I don't think they think of the state in those terms. The ubiquitous state touches everything, so sure, religion is part of it too. The point is, to them, government is the be-all, end-all expression of society.

Of course they don't.

But it is massively hypocritical of the left to justify government force in the name of religion.

Ever read Thomas Sowell's "A Conflict of Visions" ?

 

[dblack]

You really don't, know, at all, anything about liberty. To you it's just people "whining" because they don't want government dictating our every move. Go fuck yourself.

You idiot libertarians have been told government is your enemy, when you real enemy are the ones who have half of everything and still want more.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Libertarians don't see government as the enemy. Government is a tool. Whether it is good or bad, enemy or friend, depends how we use government. If we use it to protect freedom, for everyone equally, it's a good thing. This is why we need government.

The enemy, from a libertarian perspective, is people who want to use government as an all-purpose means of manipulating society

 

[MadChemist]

You really don't, know, at all, anything about liberty. To you it's just people "whining" because they don't want government dictating our every move. Go fuck yourself.

You idiot libertarians have been told government is your enemy, when you real enemy are the ones who have half of everything and still want more.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Libertarians don't see government as the enemy. Government is a tool. Whether it is good or bad, enemy or friend, depends how we use government. If we use it to protect freedom, for everyone equally, it's a good thing. This is why we need government.

The enemy, from a libertarian perspective, is people who want to use government as an all-purpose means of manipulating society

Agreed on not seeing government as an enemy....unless....

What is more sad is that people don't realize is that the class of folks who own all that money and wealth and continue to gain more......are using government to achieve their goals. They buy senators, elections, ad campaigns and analysts that know how to manipulate the general population into doing what they want.

Big Business and Government are so tied together you can't hardly tell one from the other.

But, it is clear you are wasting your breath with Joe. He has his mind made up in spite of all the evidence around him to the contrary. Additionally, it is quite clear he really isn't that informed and still spouts off ideology as if it were fact.

I call that a lost cause.

You should be looking for those who actually have open minds and can process information in a constructive way.

 

[MadChemist]

The only place where Dishonest people thrive is as a Democrat politicians. The free markets crushes dishonest merchants

NO, it doesn't. Do you really want me to go through the litany of corrupt industries? Like the Tobacco industry marketing to kids, or Ford deciding that it was cheaper to pay people killed in Pinto explosions than actually fixing all the Pintos?

You really don't, know, at all, anything about liberty. To you it's just people "whining" because they don't want government dictating our every move. Go fuck yourself.

Guy, i know if I am living in mortal fear that a tumor is going to wipe me out financially, and a big insurance company is doing a cost benefit analysis on whether or not I should live or die, that's not liberty, it's plutocracy.

You idiot libertarians have been told government is your enemy, when you real enemy are the ones who have half of everything and still want more.

How many pintos were manufactured and how many exploded ?

 

[JoeB131]

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Libertarians don't see government as the enemy. Government is a tool. Whether it is good or bad, enemy or friend, depends how we use government. If we use it to protect freedom, for everyone equally, it's a good thing. This is why we need government.

The enemy, from a libertarian perspective, is people who want to use government as an all-purpose means of manipulating society

Again, you guys want civilization, you don't want the hard work that's involved in it.

How many pintos were manufactured and how many exploded ?

Too many exploded, that's the problem, stupid. This was a problem that could have been fixed for all of $11.00.

The problem was that Ford knew the Pinto was dangerous before they even hit the fucking show rooms.

And they calculated that recalling 11 million Pintos was cheaper than paying out a maximum 2100 crash victims.

THIS is what you get in DBlack's happy world where the government doesn't get involved, and we have to rely on the enlightened self interests of greedy corporations. The only reason we know about this at all was because someone leaked the memo to Mother Jones magazine.

The Pinto Memo: ‘It’s Cheaper to let them Burn!’


Full disclosure, I drive a Ford Focus, which is a pretty nice car.

 

[JoeB131]

I call that a lost cause.

You mean you got bitch-slapped like a little pussy and you are whining now.

What is more sad is that people don't realize is that the class of folks who own all that money and wealth and continue to gain more......are using government to achieve their goals. They buy senators, elections, ad campaigns and analysts that know how to manipulate the general population into doing what they want.

People realize it. They just don't care enough to stop it. Because again, as I said, this civilization thing is hard work. So Trump steals an election, passes a tax law that benefits people like him.

Mark my word, when the deficit balloons again, we are going to hear how we need to cut Granny's social security check to pay for it. And dipshits like you and DBlack will be screaming "liberty" and "Freedom" when Granny is eating fucking Alpo.

"Chow Down, Granny! FRREEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!!"

 

[dblack]

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Libertarians don't see government as the enemy. Government is a tool. Whether it is good or bad, enemy or friend, depends how we use government. If we use it to protect freedom, for everyone equally, it's a good thing. This is why we need government.

The enemy, from a libertarian perspective, is people who want to use government as an all-purpose means of manipulating society

Again, you guys want civilization, you don't want the hard work that's involved in it.

Really? Are you just grabbing these from a list of libertarian slurs or something? Did you even read my post?

 

[MadChemist]

I call that a lost cause.

You mean you got bitch-slapped like a little pussy and you are whining now.

What is more sad is that people don't realize is that the class of folks who own all that money and wealth and continue to gain more......are using government to achieve their goals. They buy senators, elections, ad campaigns and analysts that know how to manipulate the general population into doing what they want.

People realize it. They just don't care enough to stop it. Because again, as I said, this civilization thing is hard work. So Trump steals an election, passes a tax law that benefits people like him.

Mark my word, when the deficit balloons again, we are going to hear how we need to cut Granny's social security check to pay for it. And dipshits like you and DBlack will be screaming "liberty" and "Freedom" when Granny is eating fucking Alpo.

"Chow Down, Granny! FRREEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!!"

Just more rhetoric from someone who really is not interested in anything except his own point of view.

I watch you call people idiots and other names....and fully understand who the idiot is in this conversation.

And yes, Social Security (which has always said it SHOULD NOT be your primary retirement income) will get cut and those who relied on the government and took no responsibility for themselves will be eating ALPO if they are lucky.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

even then it doesnt work out

it only works out if the government funds big insurance companies with billions and billions of dollar