VastLWC Presents: Let's have a productive discussion: Afghanistan

[Vast LWC]

So, if you folks were president, how would you approach the Afghanistan problem?

Please be detailed, and explain why you think your plan would be effective.

And remember, this thread is about productive suggestions, not criticizing existing plans.

 

[xsited1]

Bring our troops home now. Continuing to intervene in their affairs is unlikely to produce positive results.

 

[rightwinger]

I still haven't seen an effective exit strategy. If they can't show how to effectively stabilize Afghanistan in a reasonable timeframe, it is time to pull out

 

[Vast LWC]

OK, pull out completely, that's a suggestion.

Anyone else?

 

[Annie]

Make a decision to either influence the country or cut and run. Can't do both.

Like Iraq, there must be pacification coupled with helping to develop the skills needed for building schools, infrastructure, and bringing the populace into at least the late 19th C. Help build the base of knowledge of fair expectations of responsive government and the benefits of capitalism, (sorry for that filthy word). In many ways people there 'get it.' an acre of poppies brings how much $$$? An acre of wheat? Got to find the ways and benefits around that.

If instead we cut and run, be prepared for very bad blowback, as all our allies have made clear, along with our own generals. Obama said he won't do this, fine and good. So got to pick the other choice, which means more troops and more smart folks.

 

[goldcatt]

The problem is Afghanistan hasn't really been a nation since, well, forever. How do we go about nation building from scratch?

 

[Si modo]

The problem is Afghanistan hasn't really been a nation since, well, forever. How do we go about nation building from scratch?

Agreed. Nation building is not practical and I haven't seen any desire for that from anyone.

I have seen a request for additional troops to prevent the momentum of the growing insurgency. After reading the assessment, it seems reasonable that these troops will do that initially and allow for more efforts to train locals to actually police themselves.

Or, we don't provide the troops and just get the hell out immediately. Apparently, that would eventually allow for radical factions to become well entrenched.

Give those who are on the ground what they need or don't and get out, now. Don't waste their time and lives with pussyfooting, though.

 

[Vast LWC]

So those are the only two choices?

A full Marshall plan, or a full pullout?

Perhaps there are some other strategies that might work?

 

[Annie]

So those are the only two choices?

A full Marshall plan, or a full pullout?

Perhaps there are some other strategies that might work?

Suggest, please.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We lost the opportunity for other choices when the U.S. pulled resources from Afghanistan to support the Iraq invasion. I would amplify si modo's comment and suggest that the bad guys are very entrenched, certainly outside of the capitol. We could not save China or Vietnam because we would or could not put in the resources necessary to do so. I do not think American people are ready for a massive effort eight years after the first fighting began on the ground there. So: come home and prepare for a massive criticism from our allies.

 

[Si modo]

So those are the only two choices?

A full Marshall plan, or a full pullout?

Perhaps there are some other strategies that might work?

I didn't suggest "full Marshall plan". I suggest giving McChrystal what he wants - more troops, more resources.

 

[Vast LWC]

So those are the only two choices?

A full Marshall plan, or a full pullout?

Perhaps there are some other strategies that might work?

I didn't suggest "full Marshall plan". I suggest giving McChrystal what he wants - more troops, more resources.

Actually I wrote that before I read your post.

My bad.

 

[Vast LWC]

Well, how about this...

Gather a massive force in the region, gather all the intelligence you can, and then make one massive sweep of the region, to grab up all the Taliban and Al Qaeda, including northern Pakistan. Then get the hell out.

I'm serious here. Frankly I think Pakistan has always been the largest problem in the region. I mean, they're the ones harboring the actual terrorists, the Taliban regrouped in Pakistan and then moved back into Afghanistan, and Pakistan is responsible for spreading Nuclear technology all across the region.

In other words, Pakistan is everything we said we were going to combat at the beginning of the War on Terror. Pakistan is what Iraq was supposed to be.

So if Pakistan doesn't want to cooperate with our offensive, tell them we'll ally ourselves with India and blow their country back to the stone age (a la Dick Cheney).

Once the massive sweep has been conducted, get the hell out. Then make it clear that if any major terroist attack occurs, we will find whatever country harbored the people responsible, and turn the capital of said country into a sheet of glass.

 

[Vast LWC]

And you all thought liberals were pacifists.

LOL.

 

[Annie]

And you all thought liberals were pacifists.

LOL.

No, not pacifist, but not the brightest lights. You would breech the sovereignty of an ally, without any guarantee of success? What would all other allies think after that? What would the American people think after that? Geez, I thought Jimmy Carter was a fool.

 

[Vast LWC]

No, not pacifist, but not the brightest lights. You would breech the sovereignty of an ally, without any guarantee of success? What would all other allies think after that? What would the American people think after that? Geez, I thought Jimmy Carter was a fool.

How the hell is Pakistan an "ally"?

So far they've provided our enemies with Nuclear Secrets and provided a safe harbor to the actual perpetrators of 9/11.

I'm really unsure as to how they qualify as "Allies" at all except for the fact that we keep giving them money to basically do nothing.

 

[Vast LWC]

In fact, our actual enemies in Afghanistan, the Taliban, are the product of Pakistan, and their reconstitution can at least partially be laid at the feet of Pakistani intelligence.

 

[Annie]

No, not pacifist, but not the brightest lights. You would breech the sovereignty of an ally, without any guarantee of success? What would all other allies think after that? What would the American people think after that? Geez, I thought Jimmy Carter was a fool.

How the hell is Pakistan an "ally"?

So far they've provided our enemies with Nuclear Secrets and provided a safe harbor to the actual perpetrators of 9/11.

I'm really unsure as to how they qualify as "Allies" at all except for the fact that we keep giving them money to basically do nothing.

They're an ally as is Saudi Arabia. Not who I'd pick on my side for a fight, but letting us use them for the fights that must be fought now. You wouldn't make it in the State Department, I wouldn't want to. Dirty stuff.

 

[The Rabbi]

And you all thought liberals were pacifists.

LOL.

No, not pacifist, but not the brightest lights. You would breech the sovereignty of an ally, without any guarantee of success? What would all other allies think after that? What would the American people think after that? Geez, I thought Jimmy Carter was a fool.

Good points.
All al Qaeda would have to do is make for the hills until the sweep was over, wait for the Army to depart the scene and they're back in business.
It's largely a no win situation. The best idea I can come up with (and I'm not wedded to it) is to pursue a quasi guerrila campaign against al Qaeda and the Taliban, keeping them off balance.
I know trying to build stability isn't going to happen. The British tried it in the 19th century and had their asses handed to them. The Russians in the 20th century and the same thing happened. We're 3k miles away and we sure aren't going to do it.

 

[Vast LWC]

They're an ally as is Saudi Arabia. Not who I'd pick on my side for a fight, but letting us use them for the fights that must be fought now. You wouldn't make it in the State Department, I wouldn't want to. Dirty stuff.

Like what "fights"?

Saudi Arabia has helped us militarily in the region, and allowed us to have bases on their territory.

What has Pakistan done for us in return for the Billions of dollars we have given them?