Used and abused: UK's young girls

[Coyote]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

I think it is part of the culture there.

Part of the culture where? The UK? Hmm. Don't think so.

What else this thread is about? Canada?

They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no? These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't. Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age? I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.

UK is a very class oriented society. This makes certain people untouchable as far as law is concerned. If you read the stories that I have posted, you will see what I am talking about.

Exactly - I agree. I don't think that it is an issue of the UK having a culture of child molestation but rather a well ingrained culture of those who are "untouchable" and the law is reluctant to pursue them.

 

[Coyote]

I think it is part of the culture there.

Part of the culture where? The UK? Hmm. Don't think so.

What else this thread is about? Canada?

They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no? These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't. Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age? I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.

UK is a very class oriented society. This makes certain people untouchable as far as law is concerned. If you read the stories that I have posted, you will see what I am talking about.

That does not mean that pedophilia is an acceptable practice there, and I believe that it is not. Now, it seems as if you are a little upset about the accusations made against some Muslims. Well, I'm sorry if it upsets you, but it is true that in many Muslim cultures child marriage is legal and acceptable practice.

Child marriages occur in MANY cultures and the age of marriage varies around the world. For example - going by this (legal age of marriage) - Minimum Legal Age to Marry - Women - look at the countries where there are very young legal ages.

Only 3 countries have no minimum age.

When you look at the chart listed here - the countries with the highest rates of child marriages include a variety of religions but almost all are very poor or wracked by violence (early marriage is also used as a means of avoiding rape).

 

[Coyote]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

It's downright Pavlovian with you people.

Just keep yelling "racist" at the top of your lungs over and over again in order to create that political climate where it is overlooked.

Even more so when you can achieve a position of authority so as to facilitate the intimidation necessary to further these aims.

So you have nothing to say about any of the points made?

 

[Coyote]

I think it's very important that we be honest and acknowledge that there are VAST differences between cultures here in the US and the UK, as well as most if not all 1st world countries and 3rd world countries. We have different traditions, values and cultures. Women in many of those cultures are still oppressed, and they start doing this while they are still children. Women and children are just not seen as "equal" to men in these cultures. That is just the way it is.

I agree. But not only are there vast differences in the cultural attitudes towards women and children but there are vast differences in the levels of poverty, violence, instability and corruption that drive cultural attitudes or prevent them from enlightenment. Just one example - that of child labor, an issue that recently was spotlighted with the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize Winner:
Nobel Peace Prize Boosts Battle to End Child Labor Human Rights Watch

Child labor raises complex questions - how do you end it when you are dealing with families so poor that every child is needed to bring in an income so the family can survive? When you are dealing with countries that have no social safety nets like we are accustomed to and educating your child costs money (ours is free)? In a sense too - these issues also drive things like child marriages and encourage the casually brutal attitudes towards women and children who are seen as objects to be owned, bartered or traded or sold into sexual slavery. Education increases value and until people in those areas realize that their girls should be educated and that educating their girls can return wealth just as much as educating their boys - not much will change. But that is really only the tip of the iceberg. Easier said then done

 

[Phoenall]

When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.

This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.

The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?

When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - laws as to what constituted rape differed.

For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).

The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported. Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape. Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.

Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries. But is correlation causation? That's what some would have you believe.

The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "Voldtekt i den globale byen" which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it, and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation. The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.

But what happens when you break it down? Looking at just the Oslo report:

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.


The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city.​

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”. It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”


In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?​

So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?

Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts

The elephant in the room is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. Did you not read anything?

Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence

The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim. Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.

If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R. handbook.

If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female) by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam. Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause. Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.

 

[Phoenall]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.

 

[Phoenall]

When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.

This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.

The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?

When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - laws as to what constituted rape differed.

For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).

The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported. Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape. Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.

Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries. But is correlation causation? That's what some would have you believe.

The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "Voldtekt i den globale byen" which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it, and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation. The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.

But what happens when you break it down? Looking at just the Oslo report:

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.


The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city.​

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”. It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”


In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?​

So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?

Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts

It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.

Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.

All the time? I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.

Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies. Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors. Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them. Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed. The fate of child brides is usually dismal.

However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted. It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities. Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures. Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.

Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS

Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam

The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.

In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States



Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is "Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"

 

[Coyote]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.

I don't have to "live" in the UK to have access to news.

 

[Coyote]

The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?

When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - laws as to what constituted rape differed.

For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).

The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported. Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape. Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.

Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries. But is correlation causation? That's what some would have you believe.

The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "Voldtekt i den globale byen" which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it, and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation. The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.

But what happens when you break it down? Looking at just the Oslo report:

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.


The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city.​

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”. It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”


In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?​

So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?

Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts

It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.

Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.

All the time? I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.

Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies. Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors. Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them. Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed. The fate of child brides is usually dismal.

However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted. It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities. Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures. Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.

Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS

Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam

The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.

In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States



Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is "Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"

For a person that demands "unbiased sources" WikiIslam is about as biased as you can get. Nice try.

What does Zionism have to do with any of this?

 

[Coyote]

When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.

This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.

The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?

When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - laws as to what constituted rape differed.

For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).

The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported. Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape. Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.

Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries. But is correlation causation? That's what some would have you believe.

The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "Voldtekt i den globale byen" which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it, and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation. The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.

But what happens when you break it down? Looking at just the Oslo report:

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.


The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city.​

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”. It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”


In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?​

So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?

Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts

The elephant in the room is the deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. Did you not read anything?

Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence

Care to provide some unbiased sources supporting your claims?

 

[Coyote]

Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence

The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim. Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.

If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R. handbook.

If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female) by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam. Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause. Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.

So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?

Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen? That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.

 

[Coyote]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.

 

[Phoenall]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.

I don't have to "live" in the UK to have access to news.

And when the news is suppressed because of the pro muslim stance of many editors do you think you are getting the real news ?

 

[Phoenall]

Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts

It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.

Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.

All the time? I'd like to see some stats on that 9-11 yr old range.

Granted - child marriages are a scrouge in many societies. Religion can play a part in it but it is also heavily driven by economic factors. Girl children are not regarded as having much value, and as a result families choose to marry them off rather than educate them. Economic conditions are a HUGE driving factor with poor people marrying daughters off to settle debts or have one less mouth to feed. The fate of child brides is usually dismal.

However, your claim that 9 and 11 year olds are married off "all the time" is a bit off as is your claim that it is widely accepted. It is more common in some areas than others and in less educated, backwards rural areas than in the more educated communities. Child marriages occur among Muslims, Hindus and Christians in those cultures. Education, economic opportunities and convincing people that there is value in educating their girl children is key to putting an end to this.

Child Brides - Child Marriage What We Know . NOW PBS

Contemporary Pedophilic Islamic Marriages - WikiIslam

The Islamic faith condones pedophilia. Therefore, contemporary pedophilic Islamic marriages are common practice around the globe.

In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are often forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian or with the intention to preserve family honor by helping her avoid pre-marital sex. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.[1][2] This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many non-Muslim countries, such as the United Kingdom[3] and the United States



Will this do you, or will you claim it is Zionist propaganda, seeing as the source is "Sahab is a former Sunni Muslim now agnostic from South Asia who joined the wiki in April 2009 and became an administrator in 2011"

For a person that demands "unbiased sources" WikiIslam is about as biased as you can get. Nice try.

What does Zionism have to do with any of this?

Because the usual cry by those defending islam is to blame it all on the Zionists.

 

[Phoenall]

Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence

The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim. Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.

If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R. handbook.

If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female) by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam. Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause. Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.

So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?

Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen? That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.

Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine

 

[ChrisL]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

I think it is part of the culture there.

Part of the culture where? The UK? Hmm. Don't think so.

_______________________________________________________

You could trying googling phoenall's claim about ##"sex game" deaths in the UK ##

and read the results !!

Phoenall probably uses more Extreme sites to satisfy his 'Research' sites that most normal people wouldn't touch with a barge pole or believe !

That post was addressed to Vikrant, not Phoenall.

 

[ChrisL]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.

Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries. Why do you continue to deny this? Why does this offend you so much? It is just the truth. The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it. I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.

 

[Vikrant]

When I was a kid there were only a thousand or two Muslims living in Scandinavian countries. These countries had the lowest rates of rape in the world, and they also had some of the most relaxed attitudes towards sex.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain things are inevitable when you import enormous numbers of immigrants from primitive societies with extremely misogynistic and twisted attitudes towards sex, and these attitudes are compounded when these immigrants have such a sense of superiority that they regard the native population as theirs to treat as they please.

This issue is so undeniably about the culture of the perpetrators that to try to claim it is "derailing" the thread to talk about anything actually pertinent is the stuff of an underhanded agenda implemented with full intent on squashing discussion rather than furthering it.

The issue, and the claims should be looked at critically. Is there a "Muslim Rape Wave" in Scandinavia?

When you were a kid (which likely is fairly close to when I was a kid) and now - laws as to what constituted rape differed.

For example, this article is from 2011: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/w...xtend-to-the-bedroom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This blog entry is from 2013 (from someone opposed to the changes occurring in the legal system regarding rape).

The difference between what constituted rape then and what constitutes rape now in Norway is huge - meaning many more acts are now legally criminalized as rape and are going to be reported. Right then and there you have a "rape epidemic" due to a change in the legal definition of rape. Sweden is similar in that many acts are considered "rape" in Sweden that are not elsewhere due to changes in the law and changes in how rape cases are handled.

Concurrently you have an increase in immigration from non-Western European countries. But is correlation causation? That's what some would have you believe.

The primary source for the so-called "Muslim rape wave" seems to be data from a report titled "Voldtekt i den globale byen" which provides an analysis of rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. This is picked up by groups such as Britains BNP and sites such as Norway ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims 8220 Non-Western 8221 Immigrants Pamela Geller Atlas Shrugs which take information from limited studies, distort it, and attempt to apply broadly across an entire nation. The rational behind this spread is easy - nothing instills fear and hate than the possibility that barbarians are raping our women and assaulting our children and when people don't really understand statistics or critical thinking, they pick right up on it.

But what happens when you break it down? Looking at just the Oslo report:

The police report referred to is Voldtekt i den globale byen (Rape in the global city) which provides a detailed analysis of the rape statistics in Oslo during 2010. The report in fact shows that, of 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while the majority – 54.2% – were of Norwegian, other European or American origin.


The claim that “all rapists in Oslo are immigrants” is based exclusively on the figures for “assault rape”, i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included only 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals. All of those 5 individuals were indeed of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin. However, the police report adds that in other cases of assault rape, where the individual responsible was not identified and the police relied on the description provided by the victim, “8 of the perpetrators were African / dark-skinned appearance, 5 were Western / light / Nordic and 4 had an Asian appearance”. Which falls some way short of substantiating the claim that all perpetrators of aggravated rape in Oslo are of non-western origin, never mind the assertion that “Muslim immigrants” are responsible for all rapes in the city.​

The police report also points out that “it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape” and that “the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions”. It concludes: “Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous.”


In other words, on the basis of their detailed factual analysis the Norwegian police draw exactly the opposite conclusion about rape in Oslo from that promoted in Pat Condell’s latest anti-Muslim video rant. But then, when have facts ever been of any concern to racist bigots like Condell?​

So when looked at critically from a number of angles - is there even a rape epidemic at all much less one driven by Muslim immigrants in general?

Missing the elephant in the room aren't you as the figures try to hide the increasing numbers of rapes by immigrants. If the population of Oslo was 48% immigrant then the figures would not be alarming, but seeing as it is less than 20% then it shows the immigrants are 5 times more likely to be rapists. Just as the overall figures for Scandanavia show that immigrants are 20 times more likely to be rapists. It is all down to perceptions based on facts

It seems like UK has a culture of sex with minor girls/boys. Certain immigrants from certain background simply became suppliers of that demand. So, your racism is not going to help UK. In a country where police is directed to drop charges of pedophilia against a person just because he is VIP these kind of things are bound to happen.

Yet in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc. the men are marrying 9 to 11 year old girls all the time, it is part of that culture to do so. It is even commanded by their religion to have sex with very young girls, so don't try and blame the British for what is happening in your culture as well.

You are a racist and an idiot.

 

[Vikrant]

Eck, this stuff is horrible. I just can't believe that there are so many people willing to mistreat kids.

I think it is part of the culture there.

Part of the culture where? The UK? Hmm. Don't think so.

What else this thread is about? Canada?

They have laws against this stuff in the UK, no? These people are breaking the law, and I don't believe this is a widely accepted cultural practice in the UK, or at least I hope it isn't. Maybe this is one of the unintended consequences when your age of consent laws are too lax and when you sexualize children at too early an age? I've read that the schools are quite liberal in their sex education teachings for young children over there.

Yes we do and we demand that they apply equally to all British subjects, irrespective of race, creed, nationality, skin colour, religion or social status. This is why so many politicians and landed gentry are being arrested, charged and put before the courts for crimes they have committed

Bullshit. Abuse of young boys/girls went on for decades with the knowledge of police. Police was pressured to drop the charges because people who committed the crimes were wealthy and in some cases had connection with royals.