Used and abused: UK's young girls

[Coyote]

One thing I do think - we, as Americans can't really understand. We have always been Americans - we founded a country as one people for the most part. The most serious divisions we had were during the civil war. And even with racial and ethnic difficulties - we all consider ourselves Americans first and foremost. You take other countries - the Balkans, the Middle East and you have ancient ethnic groups that have existed as either independent nations, or parts of many other nations depending on the period of history and who conquored what. So, take Iraq...well...Iraqi Kurds might be Kurds first and Iraqi's second. I'm just thinking we have no real concept of this - we've never lived it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I don't think she wants to protect rapists.

She attacks anybody who points to the cultural influences that produce them, and will not acknowledge who is responsible.

That is protection.

Just because states she is doing something other than what she is doing, you shouldn't be taken in.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think she wants to protect rapists.

She attacks anybody who points to the cultural influences that produce them, and will not acknowledge who is responsible.

That is protection.

Just because states she is doing something other than what she is doing, you shouldn't be taken in.

I don't discount culture.

 

[Coyote]

Ultimately the ones responsible for rapes are the rapists. The ones responsible for human traffickers are human traffickers. Mixed in you have those who purchase the services and those who look the other way and those who protect the purchasers and traffickers.

That's where responsibility lies.

 

[ChrisL]

One thing I do think - we, as Americans can't really understand. We have always been Americans - we founded a country as one people for the most part. The most serious divisions we had were during the civil war. And even with racial and ethnic difficulties - we all consider ourselves Americans first and foremost. You take other countries - the Balkans, the Middle East and you have ancient ethnic groups that have existed as either independent nations, or parts of many other nations depending on the period of history and who conquored what. So, take Iraq...well...Iraqi Kurds might be Kurds first and Iraqi's second. I'm just thinking we have no real concept of this - we've never lived it.

This is kind of my point. These people cannot even manage to cooperate enough to make their own countries succeed. They would rather hold onto their ancient traditions and their patriarchal society than join the rest of us in the modern world. They despise us for our successes where they have failed. They despise us for our values (or LACK of, in their eyes), amongst other things. They certainly don't take us seriously. Everywhere there is a large enough percentage of them is when trouble starts. Yes, we certainly have our OWN problems. We don't need to import them from another country.

 

[Coyote]

You mean a large enough percentage of Muslims? If so, I disagree. Muslims aren't one culture. Pakistani's are not Bangladeshi's are not Somali's are not Indonesians.

 

[Coyote]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

 

[Mindful]

Why Did British Police Ignore Pakistani Gangs Abusing 1,400 Rotherham Children?

A story of rampant child abuse—ignored and abetted by the police—is emerging out of the British town of Rotherham. Until now, its scale and scope would have been inconceivable in a civilized country. Its origins, however, lie in something quite ordinary: what one Labour MP called “not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat.”

Imagine the following case.........

Welcome to Forbes

 

[Vikrant]

It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders. This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing. Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities. This is how THEY want things. That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.

True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.

That was a stupid post.

But that is exactly what these dictators do. Why are they not to blame for the condition of their own countries? Why do people want to blame outside influences all the time? The condition of those countries is the fault of no one else but the people who live there and cannot seem to get along and the dictators who are controlling them.

I disagree. It is far more complex then that. The conditions of those countries are built upon many factors. You can't exclude foreign interference from that list.

For example - colonialism, which really didn't end for some countries until the 1960's and 70's left a mixed legacy behind. Many colonial powers needed raw materials from those countries to ship to their own factories for value-added manufacturing. Local manufacturing industries were destroyed and the economy built primarily upon the export of raw materials or agriculture. That doesn't provide much value coming back to the people nor does it promote the growth of local industries. Add to that you have countries defined by artificial borders that force together ethnic and religious groups who have long hated each other. You can see the results of that in the Balkan states when the USSR broke apart and conflict arose. Sure you have huge amounts of corruption and democracies created without any of the necessary foundational institutions leading to life-time dictators. It doesn't help either that foreign powers like the US support those very dictators when it's in our interest. The problems are complicated.

They were able to do all of these things because of weak leadership and infighting to begin with. These warring tribes existed long before the 1800s.

Vous êtes tout aussi intelligents que vous êtes belle

 

[ChrisL]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

I couldn't agree more. Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO. We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.

 

[Mindful]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

I couldn't agree more. Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO. We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.

These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.

In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.


Social workers tell girls they cannot help them

Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.

 

[ChrisL]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

I couldn't agree more. Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO. We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.

These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.

In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.


Social workers tell girls they cannot help them

Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.

Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.

 

[Mindful]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

I couldn't agree more. Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO. We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.

These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.

In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.


Social workers tell girls they cannot help them

Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.

Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.

What happened in Britain was unforgivable, and should not have happened.

 

[Phoenall]

Bel Ange,

Any society which takes religion too seriously opens itself up for outside manipulation. That is why western countries encourage fundamentalist leaders in many parts of the world. They are easy to coerce and take advantage of.

It is also due to very poor and corrupt leadership in those countries that wants to keep the people at each others' throats and hating the rest of the world and blaming everyone else for their problems instead of their own corrupt leaders. This is a great way for their leaders to take attention off of the things that they are doing. Also, I believe that this is the reason why a lot of these countries have very poor education and amenities. This is how THEY want things. That is why it will never change, at least probably not in our lifetimes.

True look at the corruption in the Indian sub continent where senior officials line their pockets every chance they get, a good example of corruption is Arafat who creamed $billions from Palestinian aid and felted it away in a Swiss account. His wife now lives in luxury in France, not bad for a terrorist is it.

That was a stupid post.

WHY ? because it tells the truth. Even the UK government and media have commented on the fact the biggest majority of UK aid to Pakistan goes into the pockets of its leaders. Just as the world knew all about Arafat and his $millions stashed in a Swiss bank.

Now you are creating a straw man.

Yes, UK's money should be used to make the lives of people in UK better. It should not go to Pakistan or any other country. Nobody is saying anything contrary - at least I am not.

---

Birmingham's first Islamic school 'spent £1m of public money on school in Pakistan'

Birmingham s first Islamic school spent 1m of public money on school in Pakistan - Education News - Education - The Independent

Trying to deflect and failing the fact is very little if any aid makes it to the people that need it, and just recently people in the UK are asking why Pakistan has so much poverty when it can send rockets to mars. Cut the rocket programme and bring the country out of poverty, then stamp out corruption and backhanders.

 

[Phoenall]

^ There are lots of men who have seriously antagonistic attitude towards women. Men of this type are willing to do horrible things to women and sexual exploitation or sexual slavery is certainly not off the limit for them.

Just look at countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, where the whole country is broken up into "tribes" so to speak, and they are constantly fighting about . . . who knows what? It's been that way for what might as well be forever there and shows no signs of changing any time soon. What makes you think they can get along with anyone else?

Because when they immigrate, they often adopt western values and get along.

Never seen it in the UK in all the years I have lived here. What I have seen is muslim enclaves and ghettos of their own making, segregation in schools by muslims and increasing racism coming from the muslims. As I keep telling you unless you live with the muslim problem you don't know what you are talking about. And don't claim you can read the papers as they wont publish the 100 rapes, 200 beatings and 10 murders at the hands of muslims last night. Nor will they publish the accounts of the gang wars in inner cities across the UK as Pakistanis fight to control drugs and prostitution

 

[Phoenall]

Since when has it been racist to speak the truth, and that is what is upsetting you the fact that you know it is the truth. Your cries of racist to suppress the truth no longer work as far too many people are checking for themselves and seeing the real islam. The one that is being RACIST is you by trying to cover up the reality of 3rd world cultures living in the 7C practising child sex abuse in the 21C

Speaking the truth is racist when those making such an accusation do so as a deliberate attempt to ensure the situation is allowed to continue. I don't really think Vikrant is doing this, mind you, but Coyote sure is.

When hearing of Islamic men singling out vulnerable British children for sexual abuse, any sort of decent person is horrified and wants to know how the situation was allowed for so long as it was. It takes a special type of monster to show such solidarity with the perps that they devote themselves to creating the very situation that enabled it.

Coyote does not call people racist because she is simply a useful idiot. She does it quite knowingly and with full intent. This is a calculated, mindful agenda at work here, and not just the babbling of a bleeding heart whose heart bleeds for anybody but the victims. This creature does not give a rats ass about these British children -- only in making it impossible to protect them.

...still giving me so much head space? You're too funny. So now I'm some sort of evil Jihadi Islamist anti-semitic infiltrator who supports the abuse of children?

Your thought disorder gets more and more blatent the more you spew.

Personal abuse because you are being made to think about your POV. Now can you bring yourself to announce your disgust and feelings for the teachings of islam that says girls are commodities to be cast aside and that non muslims girls are to be taken as slaves to emulate the perfect muslim.

 

[Phoenall]

Do you, or do you not see the world as it really is watching it through your rose tinted spectacles from your ivory tower. There is no deliberate ,misrepresentation of the facts as the facts speak for themselves. In Scandanavian countries the muslim population is around 10% in total, yet the number of muslim rapes is over 50% of the total. Care to explain why this is and how it is a misrepresentation. The facts now are that many Europeans are not reporting rapes and serious sexual assaults as it is a complete waste of time, the culprits cry racism and are allowed to walk free. Is that right or is it pandering to a minority because they issue threats of violence

The way I look at it is that Coyote either is or is not Muslim. Considering the dishonest agenda here, it is impossible to tell.

If Muslim, then all the propaganda is intentional. It is right out of the C.A.I.R. handbook.

If not Muslim, then Coyote is, at best, a useful idiot, motivated by the need to feel good about herself (if, indeed, female) by this constant championing of anything to do with Islam. Some people just need a cause no matter how stupid, destructive and misguided, and her calling people racist is a projection of her own manifest hatred of anything that is not part of her Islamic cause. Of course, she supports all manner of vile, racist behavior as long as it is a Muslim doing it, but that doesn't stop her from seeking a sense of virtuousness by calling others racist for telling the truth.

So can you address any of the points being made in a rational manner or is that beyond your capacity?

Pedophile rings operating in the UK for years because the main violators are celebrities, politicians, doctors, policemen? That seems a huge issue and not an Islamic issue.

Strange that these only came to the attention of the people after the Pakistani muslim men were being arrested and charged, and the full scale of the problem was being seen. How many girls have been raped in the UK by Pakistani muslim men 2 million, 4 million or even 10 million That is the scale of the problem and because the numbers are huge people struggle to get their heads round them. The belief in the UK is that high profile celebrities are being outed to take the muslims of the radar before civil unrest starts in the UK and the muslim get a taste of their own medicine

Do you have an actual (unbiased) source showing how many girls have been raped by Muslim men in the UK?

Are you promoting violence against British Muslims?

Non e exist's as of yet, but take the cases we know about and agree with and if you look at those and extrapolate you get figures close to the million mark or higher. Rotherham 1400 girls take that as the benchmark and multiply it by the other 300 towns and cities in the north west and you get 420,000 and there are over 20,000 cities and towns in the UK. As the many cases have shown these are not isolated incidents but a widespread concerted effort to terrorise the young of the UK so the eventual takeover will be easier. If the young are terrorised they wont fight making the civil war so much easier. This is a common muslim method of land theft.

 

[Phoenall]

It is the lack of response to the mistreatment that is just as horrible.

Agree. It's the cover up and the way this has been allowed to go unchanged for so many years largely because the people involved are VIP's. When the coverup includes law enforcement and politicians it's particularly revolting - those are the very people who are supposed to be protecting the citizens.

With so many creatures such as Coyote frothing at the mouth about "Islamophobia" on a veritable witch hunt to stamp out any possibility that Muslims can ever be held accountable for what they do and to try to intimidate people into silence, an entire culture has sprung up where people have been so beaten into submission by the bullying that they refuse to see what is before their very eyes.

It's humorous the amount of headspace you give me rent free with your obsession. Islamophobia is like anti-semitism and it lends itself to witch hunts and a complete disregard for rational discourse. For example - this - what occurred in Rotherham.

The people running the ring and supplying the victims to perverts were mostly Pakistani. Criticism was rightly levied at the police for being reluctant to pursue this fully for fear of being charged with racism. That has definately got to change - crimes like this should not be in anyway affect by PC in terms of who is questioned or pursued.

The real racism is people who use this and insist it's a "Muslim pedophile epidemic" and a "Muslim problem". As if Muslims around the world are identical regardless of culture. In this case the perpetrators were almost overwelmingly Pakistani. Just one of many Muslim immigrant groups in the UK and in numbers hardly representative of Pakistani's as a whole. What they are is criminals.

It is a case of the Emperor's new clothes, where these vile things demand that others create an alternate reality and are ready to punish them lest they speak the truth.

Telling the truth is not an "alternate reality" and insisting on rationality is hardly vile. Your racism doesn't explain what seems to be a long standing British attitude in looking the other way when the perverts are VIP's. It doesn't explain many of these other incidents coming to light that do not involve Muslims. By painting it as a Muslim problem you are chopping off most of the real issue. Is your real focus and concern on child abuse or is it on Muslims?

Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny. Coyote and her revolting ilk do everything in their power to ensure they continue by throwing up such an impenetrable cacophony of background noise that it becomes impossible to stop them without accusations of racism.

You are now descending into the realm of Stupid. "Pakistani men rape British children as an expression of supremacism and misogyny"? Really now? The men involved in these activities are largely doing it for money. Human trafficking is a HUGE problem AROUND THE WORLD. Or have you not realized that? Modern media makes it easier for people to engage in it and profit from it. Your silly statement doesn't even begin to explain how many of the "customers" abusing these children are not even of Pakistani origin. Can you be any more racist?

Do you live in the UK like I do, have you seen the Pakistani muslims grooming 11 year old girls and the police stood by while it goes on. Have you been threatened by the police and social services when you complain about the grooming and rape, then faced muslim gangs threatening you with violence. It is not done for money at all, it is done purely out of racism and hatred as a form of terrorism. It is showing the people that Pakistani muslims are superior to them and have the government in their pockets. Now the people are fighting back and are demanding the government does something to stop the abuse. All we want to see now is arrest warrants for the 250 Pakistani men that are laughing at the British justice system and bragging about getting away with murder. Yes that is what they have also done, been recorded saying so and the government released them and gave them compensation. The ones who are RACIST are those that try and defend the Pakistani muslim men and make claims that have no foundation in reality.

You want to know how many of the "customers" were not muslims, the answer is NONE. Every single one was a muslim adult male whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghani, Somali, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other muslim nationality you can think of. It is all part of the Islamic culture that see Islamic property as being muslim for ever.

Sorry Coyote, but because of Muhammad and Aisha, marrying and having sexual relationships with children is not frowned upon in many Muslim dominated countries. Why do you continue to deny this? Why does this offend you so much? It is just the truth. The reason WHY we have so many issues is because of people who don't want to face the truth head on and would rather avoid it or make excuses for it. I suppose now we will get a barrage of reports about British natives having been convicted for pedophilia, and yes, there are pedophiles of all ethnicities, but this is a rampant problem in some Muslim countries, so much so that human rights organizations are involved.

It offends me because it's not the entire truth and people focus on religion and ignore the rest because it drives their own agenda which is to demonize the religion as one of pedophilia.

I don't disagree that religion plays a part in it but it's not the major part driving child marriages. There are pedophiles in every culture and they are no more common in Islam than in Catholicism though Islam, does grant them more latitude.

Ignoring the evidence instead of looking at why you support and defend islam again. If a religion has it as a basic command that they should marry very young girls and take non muslim girls as sex slaves then it has a problem. The problem is expounded when the participants declare that they cant alter the word of god and will not ignore those commands because the country they live in does not like them. Every adult male muslim is a potential child abuser because of their beliefs, not every Catholic adult male is a child abuser because they don't have it as their religion. Even secular Turkey still practises child marriage even though it is against the law.

 

[Phoenall]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

I couldn't agree more. Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO. We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.

These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.

In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.


Social workers tell girls they cannot help them

Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.

Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.

What happened in Britain was unforgivable, and should not have happened.

What happened in the UK was a planed and instigated attack at grass roots level by a government that did not care about its own people, only its power. They threw every schoolgirl over the age of 11 into the lions den while importing more lions in return for a few measly votes. That is all those girls meant to the Labour party elite, a hand full of votes. The champagne socialists should be arrested en masse and charged with corruption.

 

[ChrisL]

I will say - I'm exceedingly glad to be a citizen of a country with a constitution that balances power, protects rights and works; and a government that can be held accountable to it's people however cumbersome the process can be at times; and a justice system that works and is remarkably free of corruption. I am fortunate that religion is seperate from governance. Too may places around the world that is not true.

I couldn't agree more. Personal beliefs and emotions have no place in governing, IMO. We might not be perfect, but I'd never want to live anywhere else either.

These systems are only as good as those entrusted to uphold them.

In the case of the UK system of care and protection, from the Forbes piece.


Social workers tell girls they cannot help them

Meanwhile she must accept weekly abuse, in return for drugs and alcohol. Soon she finds herself being taken to other towns in the area, and hired out for sexual purposes to other men. She is distraught and depressed, and at the point when she can stand it no longer, she goes to the police. She can only stutter a few words, and cannot bring herself to accuse anyone in particular. Her complaint is dismissed on the grounds that any sex involved must have been consensual. The social worker in charge of her case listens to her complaint, but tells her that she cannot act unless the girl identifies her abusers. But when the girl describes them the social worker switches off with a shrug and says that she can do nothing. Her father, his drug habit notwithstanding, has tried to keep contact with his daughter and suspects what is happening. But when he goes to the police, he is arrested for obstruction and charged with wasting police time.

Of course, there is bound to be corruption sometimes, but the point is our system (here in America anyway) is a heck of a lot better than a lot of others.

What happened in Britain was unforgivable, and should not have happened.

Okay, I agree, but I don't see what that has to do with my side conversation with Coyote.