US military needs to be completely revamped

[Couchpotato]

The many bases around the world.

So Japan/Korea and Europe primarily. So you don’t support what we are doing in Ukraine?

 

[Couchpotato]

The US really does not have all that many bases overseas.

The majority are small contingents stationed on the base of an ally. Like a handful of sailors on a UAE Navy Base that handle any shipments arriving or departing for the US Navy. Or at a German Air Force Base that handle the flights that arrive and depart to and from the US.

One of the largest Air Bases in the Middle East has a large US contingent. But is it not a "US Base", nor is the second largest one. Both are bases of the host nation, the US only uses part of it.

And not unlike the exact same thing here in the US. Germany and Japan both have "military bases" here in the US. Just a small contingent on one of our bases that is in charge of the training of their own forces when they come over

there are over 100k us forces stationed in Europe alone…. We have a bunch of major US bases in Europe.

 

[pknopp]

So Japan/Korea and Europe primarily. So you don’t support what we are doing in Ukraine?

Nope.

 

[Mushroom]

Cut them.

List of United States military bases - Wikipedia

I'm not sure how you define "many".




You asked, I answered.

No, you evaded and did a cut and paste and apparently did not even look at what you were cutting and pasting from. Or even looking at it.

Great example, Point Gap in Australia. Houses a whopping 100 or so personnel. Naval Communication Station Holt, about the same at around 100 people. Robertson Barracks is a large Australian Army base, that has around 250 US personnel.

All those bases in Iraq, they own them. We have small presences on them and that is all.

Camp Arifjan in Kuwait, around 400 people. Mostly a transfer point and R&R base for others in the region.

Once again, you do the exact same thing as always. Amazingly predictable. You say as little as possible, present no real evidence, and say you are right and everybody else is wrong.

Or how about the Busan Naval Base, in South Korea? Once again, that is a South Korean Navy base. The US simply has maintenance and logistic facilities there. Heck, ships from almost all nations use that base, believe it or not even the Russian Navy has ported there in the past.

Naval Support Facility Devesleu in Romania? That is a rather large Navy Base, but all that is there is a THAAD Battery of around 100 people. And that has only been since they asked us to come there in 2022 after Russia invaded Ukraine.

And what of the treaties the US has with those nations? Should they just be ripped up because you do not like them?

 

[Mushroom]

there are over 100k us forces stationed in Europe alone…. We have a bunch of major US bases in Europe.

And are you aware at how that is a huge increase in the last year?

Before 2022 that number was under 65,000 and shrinking. But when Russia invaded Ukraine, a hell of a lot of our NATO partners requested for us to be more involved. US involvement in Europe had been shrinking for decades, way down from the over 2.4 million that were there in 1992. Odds are that number would have been closer to 60,000 if Russia had not invaded Ukraine and prompted a lot more activations and deployments into the area than had been seen in decades.

 

[pknopp]

No, you evaded and did a cut and paste and apparently did not even look at what you were cutting and pasting from. Or even looking at it.

Great example, Point Gap in Australia. Houses a whopping 100 or so personnel. Naval Communication Station Holt, about the same at around 100 people. Robertson Barracks is a large Australian Army base, that has around 250 US personnel.

All those bases in Iraq, they own them. We have small presences on them and that is all.

Camp Arifjan in Kuwait, around 400 people. Mostly a transfer point and R&R base for others in the region.

Once again, you do the exact same thing as always. Amazingly predictable. You say as little as possible, present no real evidence, and say you are right and everybody else is wrong.

Or how about the Busan Naval Base, in South Korea? Once again, that is a South Korean Navy base. The US simply has maintenance and logistic facilities there. Heck, ships from almost all nations use that base, believe it or not even the Russian Navy has ported there in the past.

Naval Support Facility Devesleu in Romania? That is a rather large Navy Base, but all that is there is a THAAD Battery of around 100 people. And that has only been since they asked us to come there in 2022 after Russia invaded Ukraine.

And what of the treaties the US has with those nations? Should they just be ripped up because you do not like them?

Bring them all home. That's a start.

 

[Couchpotato]

And are you aware at how that is a huge increase in the last year?

Before 2022 that number was under 65,000 and shrinking. But when Russia invaded Ukraine, a hell of a lot of our NATO partners requested for us to be more involved. US involvement in Europe had been shrinking for decades, way down from the over 2.4 million that were there in 1992. Odds are that number would have been closer to 60,000 if Russia had not invaded Ukraine and prompted a lot more activations and deployments into the area than had been seen in decades.

65k is still a shit ton of people.

there are 38k in Japan Ashore. 11k aflaot

28.5 in Korea


In total we have 171k permanently stationed overseas. . Now tell us again how it’s really not that many….

 

[BackAgain]

There should be fewer veterans.

How stupid.

 

[Mushroom]

So Japan/Korea and Europe primarily

For Japan and Korea, that is because of treaties that have been in place for over 7 decades. In Europe, not so much so as after Unification those bases in Germany were mostly closed and turned back over to Germany. What is left is primarily liaison personnel and their support.

Japan is unquestionably the largest, and that is because after WWII they made the choice to demilitarize and the US took up the role of protecting them. And that is not just done for kindness, Japan pays around $2 billion a year for that in addition to providing all utilities and other compensation.

And trust me, nobody really wants to see the US leave and Japan to decide to militarize their nation again. I used to live there, and as much as I respect them, no nation on the planet would scare me more if they decided to militarize again. Even with just a "Self Defense Force", they could dominate any nation in the region outside of China. And in a couple of years they will likely be equal in capabilities. Their newest Helicopter Destroyer is the largest ship they have had since 1945, and is capable of carrying the F-35B.

And their 36 Destroyers are mostly state of the art and have the AEGIS system. And their newest Maya class Destroyers are for all practical purposes actually Cruisers, other than they lack the offensive firepower of a cruiser. Swap out some of those surface to air missiles in the VLS system and replace them with ground attack missiles, and it is at that point a cruisers. The same with their Atago and Kongo class destroyers. Only their missile loadout is really what prevents them from being considered cruisers.

If those 4 "Destroyers" were in the US fleet, they would unquestionably be classified as "Cruisers". And as each uses the US made Mk 41 VLS system, there is nothing preventing them from loading Tomahawk missiles, Joint Strike Missiles, or any other ground attack missiles into them other than they have sworn to never again have offensive weapon systems.

 

[Mushroom]

In total we have 171k permanently stationed overseas. . Now tell us again how it’s really not that many….

Out of over 1.5 million? That is not all that many. That is barely above 10%.

And sorry, almost nobody is stationed overseas "permanently". The majority are actually only there on three to six month deployments. The era of moving units overseas and leaving them there "forever" pretty much ended with the Cold War. What you will have is a handful of people there for 3 years, everybody else regularly comes and goes.

Trust me, I have done a hell of a lot of overseas deployments during my time in the military. All the Infantry on Okinawa? Six months at a time. Every six months one of the Battalions leaves as another arrives to take their place. We have even waved at each other as the plane we arrived on was being refueled and serviced was the same one that was taking them home. And it is repeated again six months later. The only real ones that do long tours anymore are support. Medical is a big one, but maintenance, and most other support are there long term (as in 1.5 to 3 years), but only the units themselves. The people rotate in and out on 18 month to 3 year cycles.

Heck, one of the biggest jokes is that the Marines have three Active Duty Divisions, but that is both true and not true. The Third Division on Okinawa actually has almost nobody assigned to it other than the top level command staff and support. All of the Infantry Battalions? They actually belong to the 1st and 2nd Divisions back in the US. The 3rd only borrows them for 6 months at a time. The same with the 1st Marine Air Wing, very few people are actually in it. About 90% of the personnel is sent there from the Air Wings back in the US for six months at a time.

And many are less than that. The Air Force pilots and crews generally do 3 month rotations. The Army generally does 3 to 6 month rotations, other than a handful which still do one year rotations (primarily Air Defense).

Oh, and that 171k figure? That is all that are OCONUS. That includes Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, and all the others that are actually on US land but simply not in the contiguous 48 states. All those stationed in Hawaii? They are stationed overseas, even though they are still stationed in a US state.

 

[Couchpotato]

Out of over 1.5 million? That is not all that many. That is barely above 10%.

And sorry, almost nobody is stationed overseas "permanently". The majority are actually only there on three to six month deployments. The era of moving units overseas and leaving them there "forever" pretty much ended with the Cold War. What you will have is a handful of people there for 3 years, everybody else regularly comes and goes.

Trust me, I have done a hell of a lot of overseas deployments during my time in the military. All the Infantry on Okinawa? Six months at a time. Every six months one of the Battalions leaves as another arrives to take their place. We have even waved at each other as the plane we arrived on was being refueled and serviced was the same one that was taking them home. And it is repeated again six months later. The only real ones that do long tours anymore are support. Medical is a big one, but maintenance, and most other support are there long term (as in 1.5 to 3 years), but only the units themselves. The people rotate in and out on 18 month to 3 year cycles.

Heck, one of the biggest jokes is that the Marines have three Active Duty Divisions, but that is both true and not true. The Third Division on Okinawa actually has almost nobody assigned to it other than the top level command staff and support. All of the Infantry Battalions? They actually belong to the 1st and 2nd Divisions back in the US. The 3rd only borrows them for 6 months at a time. The same with the 1st Marine Air Wing, very few people are actually in it. About 90% of the personnel is sent there from the Air Wings back in the US for six months at a time.

And many are less than that. The Air Force pilots and crews generally do 3 month rotations. The Army generally does 3 to 6 month rotations, other than a handful which still do one year rotations (primarily Air Defense).

Oh, and that 171k figure? That is all that are OCONUS. That includes Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, and all the others that are actually on US land but simply not in the contiguous 48 states. All those stationed in Hawaii? They are stationed overseas, even though they are still stationed in a US state.

12% of all US forces having their permanent duty station overseas isn’t significant? Which other country in the world has anytning even close to that? That doesn’t include deployments, sailors stationed on ships, people TAD, etc etc.


A permanent duty station doesn’t mean you’re stationed there forever dumbass.

 

[Mushroom]

12% of all US forces having their permanent duty station overseas isn’t significant?

Wow, this is much more than 171k, and apparently does not include deployments?

But to start with, over 36,000 of them are in Hawaii. Another 20,000 are in Alaska. Another 21,000 in Guam. Another 21,000 in Puerto Rico. That is over half of your figure of "US forces overseas" even if it does not include deployments. Remember, to the military anything OCONUS is "overseas". So right away cut that number you keep throwing around in half, as those are people that are overseas, but still in the US.

Or are you pissed that over 56,000 are stationed in Alaska and Hawaii? You are aware that is over 1/3 of your figure already, right?

The majority are actually on deployments. When I was at Camp Schwab, the permanent contingent was only around 100 people. The bulk of the over 1,000 personnel on that base were only there for six months. Yes, there were always two Battalions there, but they changed one of them every three months. On paper, the 4th Marine Regiment is stationed there at all times. In reality? Maybe around 50 in the command staff were there for three years, plus another 50 for facilities like the clinic, the base motor pool and fuel point, the command for the Force Recon stationed there, and the like. Everybody else came and left regularly, generally in six month cycles. Always two Battalions from the 2nd Marine Division in Lejeune. And it was the exact same story at Camp Hansen, except there the battalions assigned to the 12th Marine Regiment came from the 1st Division at Camp Pendleton. Even many that assisted in running the camp and Regiment were augmented from the deploying Battalions. Most of those that run the gym, the rec facilities, and many other aspects are pulled from the 6 month units.

My last deployment overseas was actually for a year, but that was very much the exception as we were Air Defense. Almost all others do 3 to 6 months. Oh, there is always a unit there, but it is not the same unit.

You apparently do not really understand what "permanent duty" is. Been there, done that, got the shiny ribbons on my uniform to show for it.

 

[Couchpotato]

Wow, this is much more than 171k, and apparently does not include deployments?

But to start with, over 36,000 of them are in Hawaii. Another 20,000 are in Alaska. Another 21,000 in Guam. Another 21,000 in Puerto Rico. That is over half of your figure of "US forces overseas" even if it does not include deployments. Remember, to the military anything OCONUS is "overseas". So right away cut that number you keep throwing around in half, as those are people that are overseas, but still in the US.

Or are you pissed that over 56,000 are stationed in Alaska and Hawaii? You are aware that is over 1/3 of your figure already, right?

The majority are actually on deployments. When I was at Camp Schwab, the permanent contingent was only around 100 people. The bulk of the over 1,000 personnel on that base were only there for six months. Yes, there were always two Battalions there, but they changed one of them every three months. On paper, the 4th Marine Regiment is stationed there at all times. In reality? Maybe around 50 in the command staff were there for three years, plus another 50 for facilities like the clinic, the base motor pool and fuel point, the command for the Force Recon stationed there, and the like. Everybody else came and left regularly, generally in six month cycles. Always two Battalions from the 2nd Marine Division in Lejeune. And it was the exact same story at Camp Hansen, except there the battalions assigned to the 12th Marine Regiment came from the 1st Division at Camp Pendleton. Even many that assisted in running the camp and Regiment were augmented from the deploying Battalions. Most of those that run the gym, the rec facilities, and many other aspects are pulled from the 6 month units.

My last deployment overseas was actually for a year, but that was very much the exception as we were Air Defense. Almost all others do 3 to 6 months. Oh, there is always a unit there, but it is not the same unit.

You apparently do not really understand what "permanent duty" is. Been there, done that, got the shiny ribbons on my uniform to show for it.

United States military deployments - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you know that people can just google shit right?

100k europe
50 k japan
28k Korea

thats more than the 171k


BTW. When did Guam get its statehood?

if you’d actually been in the military you would know a permanent duty station isn’t where youre stationed forever.

Minus schools I had 7 of them. Weird.

 

[Flash]

I attended a Zoning Board meeting last night and during public comments, one of the men who stood up was an Army Veteran, served in the ME, fell on hard times upon his return and until recently was homeless for quite a while.

I was seething!! The US military priorities are completely wrong. Much like US Congress, the DoD has become a nest of greed and mismanagement.

No veteran SHOULD EVER BE HOMELESS !

Instead of funding 44 4 Star Generals and 155 3 Stars, the DoD should provide any veteran a home for $1.

There are so many currently available properties nationwide that can be acquired and turned to veterans housing TODAY that this should be fixed in a very short time. Communities serving injured Veterans would take longer to be built, but our veterans deserve no less.

How about using the billions we give to the Illegals and the billions we are using to subsidize stupid EVs and spend it on our hero Veterans?

Why not take the money away from ghetto welfare queens and give it to Veterans?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How about using the billions we give to the Illegals and the billions we are using to subsidize stupid EVs and spend it on our hero Veterans?

Why not take the money away from ghetto welfare queens and give it to Veterans?

Veterans who serve in combat should be treated like royalty.

Then again wars should be few and far between, not an every day occurrence like they are now

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Veterans who serve in combat should be treated like royalty.

Then again wars should be few and far between, not an every day occurrence like they are now

.

I love living in my small Midwest town! The kids all go to the same school, K-12, and they do treat the local Veterans like royalty. They serve them a wonderful brunch on Patriotic holidays and the high school aged kids are always out helping the disabled Vets with things like lawn care, snow removal and branch removal after a wind storm, and our food bank, which benefits mostly disabled Vets, is donated to generously.

.

 

[Mushroom]

100k europe

Which as I already said was under 65k prior to Russia invading Ukraine. I think I already stated that was a huge jump, over 40,000 people actually.

And what, they are there for the current crisis, and that somehow magically means they are there permanently?

BTW. When did Guam get its statehood?

What in the hell does that have to do with anything?

Here, let me be absolutely blunt and amazingly uncivil for a moment.

THOSE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS!

THEY LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES!

THAT IS AMERICAN TERRITORY!

Sorry, I tend to get more than a little pissed off when people in the US stupidly, ignorantly, racially, or for any other reason try to put down, ignore, bemean, or belittle those that live in the US but are not actually living in states. It is offensive in the extreme, as if the "brown people" that live in places like Puerto Rico, Micronesia, Samoa, Guam, and all those other territories that actually make up the United States of America do not matter because they do not actually live in states.

I have to admit, most of those that seem to want to ignore those overseas territories almost always tend to be "pocket racists". Which offends me even more because in addition to having people from Samoa in my family, my aunt was born in Alaska when it was a territory. Yes, technically she was not born in the "United States" as it was not yet a state at the time, but she is as American as anybody else born in the "Lower 48", or Puerto Rico or many other territories.

And I have served proudly with a great many of them over the decades. So yes, I take huge offense at anybody that even hints that those US Territories are somehow lesser just because they are not states.

I would close this off with more words, but I am positive if I even said one of those the ban hammer would come down on my for it. So I will just close it here. Civil words really can not cover my disgust at such a statement.

 

[Mushroom]

Veterans who serve in combat should be treated like royalty.

In this I will disagree, we should simply be treated as people who did our duty to our nation.

All I ask is that we not be discriminated against and treated like everybody else.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sort of.
USA males are required to register with the Selective Service once they turn eighteen; but no one seems to be enforcing that and there is no "Draft".

You cannot work for many states and the US government if you do not register.

 

[Mushroom]

You cannot work for many states and the US government if you do not register.

Or attend college.

I thought it was funny when I enrolled in a local community college in 1993 after I was medically discharged from the Marines. And when I was registering they told me I had to show proof that I was enrolled in the Selective Service system.

I simply returned the next day with my DD-214, and showed that not only had I already served 10 years so was no longer eligible to be drafted, I was medically exempt from service. They called out one of the assistant deans who signed off on the form saying I was exempt from that requirement.