US Lacks Plan to Destroy Al Qaeda in Pakistan

[RetiredGySgt]

Try to get your head out of the isolationist sand long enough to actually read the post that started this thread, Paulite. What am I saying? According to Ron Paul we brought the war on ourselves. That's all we need to know. The report of Al Qaeda's reconstitution in NW Pakistan is not from me, it is from the GAO. I suppose they are just "perpetuating the fear." Here, I'll get the quote for you: "However, GAO found broad agreement, as documented in the National Intelligence Estimate, State, and embassy documents, as well as Defense officials in Pakistan, that Al Qaeda had regenerated its ability to attack the United States and had succeeded in establishing a safe haven in Pakistan's FATA." U.S. GAO - Summary. Now let's see your investigation that refutes the GAO's perpetuation of fear. Of course you will be simultaneously refuting the NIE and the State Department. Have your own independent intelligence agency, do you? We are eager for your report.

Now why is it you have faith in this GOverment agency and its intel from other Government agencies but poo poo all the intel about Saddam Hussein having weapons before the war as lies and misinformation? Could it be because this one says what YOU want to hear and the other did not?

Why is it you believe the Government on this Issue but not on Iraq? Again, could it be because in this case they are saying what YOU want to hear?

 

[Paulie]

Try to get your head out of the isolationist sand long enough to actually read the post that started this thread, Paulite. What am I saying? According to Ron Paul we brought the war on ourselves. That's all we need to know. The report of Al Qaeda's reconstitution in NW Pakistan is not from me, it is from the GAO. I suppose they are just "perpetuating the fear." Here, I'll get the quote for you: "However, GAO found broad agreement, as documented in the National Intelligence Estimate, State, and embassy documents, as well as Defense officials in Pakistan, that Al Qaeda had regenerated its ability to attack the United States and had succeeded in establishing a safe haven in Pakistan's FATA." U.S. GAO - Summary. Now let's see your investigation that refutes the GAO's perpetuation of fear. Of course you will be simultaneously refuting the NIE and the State Department. Have your own independent intelligence agency, do you? We are eager for your report.

I never said it was from you. But you posting it perpetuates the fear, nonetheless. Your desires to conquer the Islamic world because they managed to attack us during a time when they were, for all intents and purposes being ALLOWED to plot against us via shoddy investigations and intelligence, have isolated us far more than pulling unnecessary troops out of countries we have no further necessity to be in EVER will. You love the spin of the word "isolationist". It seems to make you feel proud as though you've uttered a cuss word in front of your mom without her realizing it.

The fact is, we've been hearing about Al-qaeda's "reconstitution" in Pakistan for, what, at least 6 years now since they out-smarted us in Tora Bora before we retreated and "appeased" them and the Pakistani government? You know, the government who only a few months prior, we were shoving a gun barrell down their throats with ultimatums for cooperation right after 9/11 happened?

I mean, it's already been a year since Chertoff broke the news to us that Al-qaeda is probably stronger now than before 9/11. But just the other day in London, he's now apparently back-peddling and downplaying their abilities to suggest that they probably don't even have a current or near term future ability to acquire and use a nuclear weapon. I'll get a link if you'd like, but I'm sure you can google Chertoff-London and find an abundance of links on your own.

Right now, perhaps you ought to keep focused on the current situation in Iraq. It's much more important for us to be THERE right now, because we started it so now we gotta finish it, right?

How about this..

How about we mobilize our entire military, reinstate the draft, and simultaneously invade Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea. A lot will die, but hey, the ends justify the means, eh Onedomino? If the ensuing US casualties are too much to bear, we can always just lob some nukes instead and take care of it real quick like. I'm sure China and Russia won't mind a bit. Shit, it would probably just go to show them we don't **** around over here in the motherland.

'**** outta here with this "Paulite"/"Isolationist" bullshit. That shit's been old and tired since at LEAST February 5th. Get some new ******* material, Blitzer.

 

[Gunny]

You really should do a little more reading....


CNN reported that T. Boone Pickens is now sinking billions into a wind farm near Abilene, TX, which is expected to become the biggest such operation in the world. He has bought 667 turbines from General Electric.

Upon completion in seven years, the project is expected to include more than 2,500 turbines and to produce enough electricity to power 1.3 million homes, Pickens said.

“It will be about $8 billion in wind turbines and $2 billion in transmission (lines). It will probably be over $10 billion,” Pickens told CNBC.

Ah .. the argument of the elitist ... *I* should do some more reading. And of course, I should read what YOU think I should, and just accept it as fact?

I did not question nor doubt what your boy is doing. I questioned the method he is pursuing.

I didn't say it wouldn't work, either. I said it is not efficient and it is reliant on the weather to produce.

Oh ... nd perhaps you would like to borrow one of the several books on eletrical theory I have so YOU can do a little more reading? Just a thought.

 

[Gunny]

I never said it was from you. But you posting it perpetuates the fear, nonetheless. Your desires to conquer the Islamic world because they managed to attack us during a time when they were, for all intents and purposes being ALLOWED to plot against us via shoddy investigations and intelligence, have isolated us far more than pulling unnecessary troops out of countries we have no further necessity to be in EVER will. You love the spin of the word "isolationist". It seems to make you feel proud as though you've uttered a cuss word in front of your mom without her realizing it.

The fact is, we've been hearing about Al-qaeda's "reconstitution" in Pakistan for, what, at least 6 years now since they out-smarted us in Tora Bora before we retreated and "appeased" them and the Pakistani government? You know, the government who only a few months prior, we were shoving a gun barrell down their throats with ultimatums for cooperation right after 9/11 happened?

I mean, it's already been a year since Chertoff broke the news to us that Al-qaeda is probably stronger now than before 9/11. But just the other day in London, he's now apparently back-peddling and downplaying their abilities to suggest that they probably don't even have a current or near term future ability to acquire and use a nuclear weapon. I'll get a link if you'd like, but I'm sure you can google Chertoff-London and find an abundance of links on your own.

Right now, perhaps you ought to keep focused on the current situation in Iraq. It's much more important for us to be THERE right now, because we started it so now we gotta finish it, right?

How about this..

How about we mobilize our entire military, reinstate the draft, and simultaneously invade Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea. A lot will die, but hey, the ends justify the means, eh Onedomino? If the ensuing US casualties are too much to bear, we can always just lob some nukes instead and take care of it real quick like. I'm sure China and Russia won't mind a bit. Shit, it would probably just go to show them we don't **** around over here in the motherland.

'**** outta here with this "Paulite"/"Isolationist" bullshit. That shit's been old and tired since at LEAST February 5th. Get some new ******* material, Blitzer.

Quite a lot of spin you got going here, paulitics. What it boils down to is stick your head in the sand and pretending the bad guy isn't standing behind you ready to shoot your ass off doesn't make him go away, nor does it keep him from shooting.

How about we just pull out of Afghanistan and just let the Taliban have it back? That sure makes a lot of sense.

 

[Chris]

Ah .. the argument of the elitist ... *I* should do some more reading. And of course, I should read what YOU think I should, and just accept it as fact?

I did not question nor doubt what your boy is doing. I questioned the method he is pursuing.

I didn't say it wouldn't work, either. I said it is not efficient and it is reliant on the weather to produce.

Oh ... nd perhaps you would like to borrow one of the several books on eletrical theory I have so YOU can do a little more reading? Just a thought.

There is no question of theory or method. The reality is already here. The Danes already get 20% of their total energy from wind power. Are the Danes smarter than us?

There is a wind corridor that runs from Texas to the Canadian border. There is a solar corridor that runs from Texas to California. The energy is there. It will never run out. And it is 100% made in America.

To quote Buckminster Fuller, "There isn't an energy crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance."

 

[Chris]

The Iraelis want to be totally solar by 2036.

Next Big Future: Solar power breakthroughs SUNRGI 7 cents per kwh 2009 and Israel Solar Power 100 times lower cost

 

[Gunny]

There is no question of theory or method. The reality is already here. The Danes already get 20% of their total energy from wind power. Are the Danes smarter than us?

There is a wind corridor that runs from Texas to the Canadian border. There is a solar corridor that runs from Texas to California. The energy is there. It will never run out. And it is 100% made in America.

To quote Buckminster Fuller, "There isn't an energy crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance."

Denmark is located exactly WHERE geographically? And is how big in comparison to the US?

Neither that wind nor sun corridor are guaranteed. As recently as the past few years we had a RAIN corridor.

My point in regard to my previous comment concerning corn was not to the corn itself; rather, in the fact that you've apparently been sold something and are sticking to it no matter what.

And yes, it IS a matter of theory. You can't produce enough energy to power this nation if you put a soalr panel on every house and a windmill in every yard. None of which addresses the fact that we still use the internal combustion engine that runs on fossil fuels.

I have ZERO problem with becoming independent from foreign energy sources and in fact have been quite vocal on the topic. I'm not for cutting our own throats to do it. Even Custer thought he had a plan.

 

[Paulie]

Quite a lot of spin you got going here, paulitics. What it boils down to is stick your head in the sand and pretending the bad guy isn't standing behind you ready to shoot your ass off doesn't make him go away, nor does it keep him from shooting.

How about we just pull out of Afghanistan and just let the Taliban have it back? That sure makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure what was spin in that. I stated facts, I just chose not to cite them with links. The typing was long enough. I can and will post links to back up anything I said. if required. I thought at this point it was common knowledge though.

My bottom line is, we can't afford to maintain this military empire we have. Would I like to just see the problem eradicated in Pakistan? SURE. But how are we going to pull it off? How are we going to keep paying for all of these escapades? Where is the money coming from? It's being borrowed and printed. Otherwise, we don't have any money. We're paying high oil prices right now because we've devalued our Dollar doing EXACTLY THIS.

Either no one seems to recognize or no one seems to care.

My problem is in how these stories are being used as propaganda to drum up support for war. Everyone KNOWS al-qaeda is hiding out in Pakistan. We've been hearing about it since Tora Bora. We fucked that up just like we fucked Iraq up. How are the world's most powerful and elite military and intelligence units continually being swindled by a bunch of cavemen (and i'll admit that in the red is spin, but i think you know what I mean)? Pakistan plays ball now with us, so we don't see a need to upset that relationship by intervening in their country. We only do that to countries who dare step out of line and threaten our hegemony.

I shouldn't feel like just because I'm an American, I must agree with every one of these decisions, because if I don't, I might be construed as un-patriotic. That's bullshit.

We created that mess in Pakistan. We propped up Musharaff, and now his government is all we can count on to keep order and not allow their nuclear arsenal to come into the hands of enemies. But we're faced with a conundrum. Musharaff's government, who we CREATED, now doesn't want to let us finish the job we started 6 years ago. They're aiding and abetting our known enemies, and we're LETTING them because Musharaff plays ball economically.

Something's gotta give. Either Musharaff allows us to deploy an acute operation into the area where joint intelligence seems to think the problem is, or we just once again invade a country and replace a regime we created, with the potential backlash of an Iraq-style quagmire where, now, that country's nuclear arsenal could be involved.

Otherwise, we're just going to have to keep reading these propaganda pieces meant to do nothing more than scare people into accepting perpetual world war in the name of terrorism.

 

[Gunny]

I'm not sure what was spin in that. I stated facts, I just chose not to cite them with links. The typing was long enough. I can and will post links to back up anything I said. if required. I thought at this point it was common knowledge though.

My bottom line is, we can't afford to maintain this military empire we have. Would I like to just see the problem eradicated in Pakistan? SURE. But how are we going to pull it off? How are we going to keep paying for all of these escapades? Where is the money coming from? It's being borrowed and printed. Otherwise, we don't have any money. We're paying high oil prices right now because we've devalued our Dollar doing EXACTLY THIS.

Either no one seems to recognize or no one seems to care.

My problem is in how these stories are being used as propaganda to drum up support for war. Everyone KNOWS al-qaeda is hiding out in Pakistan. We've been hearing about it since Tora Bora. We fucked that up just like we fucked Iraq up. How are the world's most powerful and elite military and intelligence units continually being swindled by a bunch of cavemen (and i'll admit that in the red is spin, but i think you know what I mean)? Pakistan plays ball now with us, so we don't see a need to upset that relationship by intervening in their country. We only do that to countries who dare step out of line and threaten our hegemony.

I shouldn't feel like just because I'm an American, I must agree with every one of these decisions, because if I don't, I might be construed as un-patriotic. That's bullshit.

We created that mess in Pakistan. We propped up Musharaff, and now his government is all we can count on to keep order and not allow their nuclear arsenal to come into the hands of enemies. But we're faced with a conundrum. Musharaff's government, who we CREATED, now doesn't want to let us finish the job we started 6 years ago. They're aiding and abetting our known enemies, and we're LETTING them because Musharaff plays ball economically.

Something's gotta give. Either Musharaff allows us to deploy an acute operation into the area where joint intelligence seems to think the problem is, or we just once again invade a country and replace a regime we created, with the potential backlash of an Iraq-style quagmire where, now, that country's nuclear arsenal could be involved.

Otherwise, we're just going to have to keep reading these propaganda pieces meant to do nothing more than scare people into accepting perpetual world war in the name of terrorism.

One, I didn't ask for links.

Two, "Spin" would be the way you paint certain situations. We did NOT screw up Tora Bora. Perhaps it's okay for you to fire on combatants under a flag of truce offering no resistance, but it most definitely is a crime of war.

It was a ruse and it worked. However, nobody fucked up by following the rules. Wht's the alternative? Murder people under a flag of truce offering no hostility for what you "think" they might do?

The world market has devalued the dollar, and it would be happening whether or not we are in Afghanistan, and you're right I don't see it as you do.

How is support being drummed up for war? You have troops in the field. You can't withdraw them at your leisure or because you don't like their mission.

As far as a solution, I have NO problem with launching a unilateral strike against all suspected AQ and Taliban operations in Pakistan simultaneously and wiping them off the map. Problem solved.

What's yours? Withdaw?

You're jumping all over the defensive meter. I never said you were un-American for your viewpoints. Doesn't mean I neceassarily agree or disagree with any of them.

The fact is, we have supported weak-ass regime after weak-ass regime since WWI if they played ball with us, and will probably continue to do so.

But like I keep trying to tell kirk in so many words, you can't just halt in place, face about and go your own way. You REALLY think Ron Paul would have accomplished that?

He'd have been a lame duck stripped of most of his power by the bureaucracy that controls this nation and its politics.

 

[Chris]

Denmark is located exactly WHERE geographically? And is how big in comparison to the US?

Neither that wind nor sun corridor are guaranteed. As recently as the past few years we had a RAIN corridor.

My point in regard to my previous comment concerning corn was not to the corn itself; rather, in the fact that you've apparently been sold something and are sticking to it no matter what.

And yes, it IS a matter of theory. You can't produce enough energy to power this nation if you put a soalr panel on every house and a windmill in every yard. None of which addresses the fact that we still use the internal combustion engine that runs on fossil fuels.

I have ZERO problem with becoming independent from foreign energy sources and in fact have been quite vocal on the topic. I'm not for cutting our own throats to do it. Even Custer thought he had a plan.

Where is Denmark? WTF? Where is Israel? What difference does that make?

We are falling behind in the most important industry of the 21st century, and all you can say is "we can't do it." Bullsh*t. IT IS ALREADY BEING DONE by countries that have better leadership than we do. Fortunately Nero will be out of office on Jan. 20, 2009, and we can begin to point America in the right direction again.

 

[BrianH]

$700 billion dollars and counting....

What if instead of wasting $700 billion dollars on a hole in the desert, we had spent that money on a project for American Energy Independence? The technology is there. The Danes and the Israelis already get 20% of their energy from solar and wind power. Why can't we? Because we don't have any leadership, that's why. AQ is a minor threat that was blown out of proportion by Bush-Cheney. A bunch of guys in a cave in Afganistan with no army, no navy, and no air force are not a threat to a country of 300 million people. We need new leadership and a new direction in America.

Tell that to the families of 2,923 innocent American civilians that were massacred by two planes....

 

[jillian]

Tell that to the families of 2,923 innocent American civilians that were massacred by two planes....

which didn't occur at the hand of Iraquis.

 

[BrianH]

Where is Denmark? WTF? Where is Israel? What difference does that make?

We are falling behind in the most important industry of the 21st century, and all you can say is "we can't do it." Bullsh*t. IT IS ALREADY BEING DONE by countries that have better leadership than we do. Fortunately Nero will be out of office on Jan. 20, 2009, and we can begin to point America in the right direction again.

Kirk, the difference is that they're not here, and they're 1000X smaller than this nation. Take a breath and count to 10.


One of these means of producing energy will not solve the energy crisis by itself. It's going to have to be collective....and until we find an alterantive way to power vehicles, we'll never truly "go green". Alot of people are all hopped up on ethanol and biofuel....unfortunately, it's going to be the same as gas. It takes just as much of a process to refine corn into ethanol as it does to refine oil into gas. Same transporation, etc.... Farmers that have swithced to growing corn are now discovering that the cost to grow and harvest it has tripled and that they're still barely staying afloat.

I'm all for getting independent of foreign oil and going green. But we don't need to jump on the first bandwagon and shoot ourselves in the foot while doing it. We need a long term plan and not just at quick fix.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

which didn't occur at the hand of Iraquis.

No one claimed they did except you retarded liberals.

 

[Swamp Fox]

We are in a political war which will not be won militarily. This is the reason that Bush-Cheney have failed. Bush is the best recruiter Al Quaeda ever had.

You seem to be right up there as well. Besides, last time I checked Al Qaeda was around well before Bush got into office. It officially started in 1994 when OBL issued his first fatwa. Wasn't Clinton president then? Hmmmm.......

 

[Swamp Fox]

There is no question of theory or method. The reality is already here. The Danes already get 20% of their total energy from wind power. Are the Danes smarter than us?

There is a wind corridor that runs from Texas to the Canadian border. There is a solar corridor that runs from Texas to California. The energy is there. It will never run out. And it is 100% made in America.

To quote Buckminster Fuller, "There isn't an energy crisis. There is only a crisis of ignorance."

A crisis of ignorance that has refused to allow more nuclear power plants to be built, that has refused to allow oil that's in OUR country to be drilled for prefering to pay BILLIONS to Arab countries for it instead. Yep, ignorance has run us right into the ground and now you want us to vote for Obama and another 4 years of ignorance.

 

[BrianH]

which didn't occur at the hand of Iraquis.

I know.... I was talking about terrorists and our presence in Afghanistan....I think. Kirk was talking about AQ and it not being a threat.

 

[jillian]

I know.... I was talking about terrorists and our presence in Afghanistan....I think. Kirk was talking about AQ and it not being a threat.

Y'all are jumping around so much, I musta lost track. lol...

We always should have focused more on Afghanistan.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Y'all are jumping around so much, I musta lost track. lol...

We always should have focused more on Afghanistan.

The plan was and still is , to limit foreign troops as much as is reasonable. Foreign troops are considered a problem by Afghans. To many might enable more direct combat but would result ( according to the talking heads) in more resentment and anger, actually fueling the resistance.

 

[BrianH]

Y'all are jumping around so much, I musta lost track. lol...

We always should have focused more on Afghanistan.

Sorry....Kirk posted above my post that AQ was a "minor threat that was blown out of proportion"

--That's what I was referring to.