US Lacks Plan to Destroy Al Qaeda in Pakistan

[onedomino]

Al Qaeda is reconstituting in the NW Territories of Pakistan and the Government Accountably Office says that the US lacks any plan to counteract the buildup. Administration officials are worried that cross-border attacks into Pakistan from Afghanistan will alienate the new government in Islamabad that seeks to negotiate with tribal leaders in the NW Territories. Should the US attack Al Qaeda in Pakistan despite objection or even resistance from the Pakistani government?

3D Landstat image looking west through Waziristan toward Afghanistan

GAO Summary: http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-08-622
Complete GAO Report: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08622.pdf

The United States has not met its national security goals to destroy terrorist threats and close the safe haven in Pakistan's FATA. Since 2002, the United States relied principally on the Pakistan military to address U.S. national security goals. Of the approximately $5.8 billion the United States provided for efforts in the FATA and border region from 2002 through 2007, about 96 percent reimbursed Pakistan for military operations there. According to the Department of State, Pakistan deployed 120,000 military and paramilitary forces in the FATA and helped kill and capture hundreds of suspected al Qaeda operatives; these efforts cost the lives of approximately 1,400 members of Pakistan's security forces. However, GAO found broad agreement, as documented in the National Intelligence Estimate, State, and embassy documents, as well as Defense officials in Pakistan, that al Qaeda had regenerated its ability to attack the United States and had succeeded in establishing a safe haven in Pakistan's FATA. No comprehensive plan for meeting U.S. national security goals in the FATA has been developed, as stipulated by the National Strategy for Combating Terrorism (2003), called for by an independent commission (2004), and mandated by congressional legislation (2007).

image source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/wana.htm

 

[rayboyusmc]

I don't know if we are doing any covert infiltration, but this is what should be happening along with the battlefield operations.

In the 6 years since we have been there, we could probably have done some level of infiltration into their ranks. If you achieve a level of success where you can inflict damage on them through this covert information, you will aid greatly in defeating them on the battlefield.

Attacking into Pakistan would increase the hatred for US and decrease any assistance they might be giving US.

It's a screwed up situation since we let them off the hook to reconstitute their strength.

 

[Chris]

We are in a political war which will not be won militarily. This is the reason that Bush-Cheney have failed. Bush is the best recruiter Al Quaeda ever had.

 

[onedomino]

We are in a political war which will not be won militarily. This is the reason that Bush-Cheney have failed. Bush is the best recruiter Al Quaeda ever had.

A political war? With flying lead and shrapnel. Let's hold a referendum on homicide bombing. We need a little political understanding of Taliban and Al Qaeda objectives. How could I have missed that perspective? All this time I just thought they were trying to kill us.

 

[Gunny]

We are in a political war which will not be won militarily. This is the reason that Bush-Cheney have failed. Bush is the best recruiter Al Quaeda ever had.

Did you think long and hard before you made this response?

You sound exactly like the type that would be condemning Bush and calling for his head if he so much as deployed US troops within 3 ft of the Pakisatan border.

Now, unless you are willing to commit to a military invasion or Pakistan, or be willing to support US troops pursuing Taliban and al Qaeda operatives wherever they find them, shut up, huh?

Islamic jihadists are the best recruiters al Qaeda and the Taliban have, and people like YOU do nothing but enable them.

 

[Paulie]

Al Qaeda is reconstituting in the NW Territories of Pakistan

Yeah, we've been hearing that for years now. But thanks for perpetuating the fear.

 

[Chris]

Did you think long and hard before you made this response?

You sound exactly like the type that would be condemning Bush and calling for his head if he so much as deployed US troops within 3 ft of the Pakisatan border.

Now, unless you are willing to commit to a military invasion or Pakistan, or be willing to support US troops pursuing Taliban and al Qaeda operatives wherever they find them, shut up, huh?

Islamic jihadists are the best recruiters al Qaeda and the Taliban have, and people like YOU do nothing but enable them.

Thanks for proving my point. Bush can't invade Pakistan because it would be political suicide. It would drive a nuclear armed Pakistan right into the extremist camp.

No terrorist group has ever been destroyed militarily. The British fought the IRA for eighty years until a political solution was reached.

Bin Laden said his goal was to bankrupt America. Bush is helping him accomplish his goal. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

 

[onedomino]

Yeah, we've been hearing that for years now. But thanks for perpetuating the fear.

Try to get your head out of the isolationist sand long enough to actually read the post that started this thread, Paulite. What am I saying? According to Ron Paul we brought the war on ourselves. That's all we need to know. The report of Al Qaeda's reconstitution in NW Pakistan is not from me, it is from the GAO. I suppose they are just "perpetuating the fear." Here, I'll get the quote for you: "However, GAO found broad agreement, as documented in the National Intelligence Estimate, State, and embassy documents, as well as Defense officials in Pakistan, that Al Qaeda had regenerated its ability to attack the United States and had succeeded in establishing a safe haven in Pakistan's FATA." U.S. GAO - Summary. Now let's see your investigation that refutes the GAO's perpetuation of fear. Of course you will be simultaneously refuting the NIE and the State Department. Have your own independent intelligence agency, do you? We are eager for your report.

 

[onedomino]

Thanks for proving my point. Bush can't invade Pakistan because it would be political suicide. It would drive a nuclear armed Pakistan right into the extremist camp.

No terrorist group has ever been destroyed militarily. The British fought the IRA for eighty years until a political solution was reached.

Bin Laden said his goal was to bankrupt America. Bush is helping him accomplish his goal. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

False. The US is far from bankrupt. The Defense Dept Budget as a percent of GDP is several hundred percent less now, and during the course of the War on Terror, than it was in WW2, and that did not "bankrupt the country." If that's Bin Laden's goal, he's got a long way to go.

 

[Chris]

False. The US is far from bankrupt. The Defense Dept Budget as a percent of GDP is several hundred percent less now, and during the course of the War on Terror, than it was in WW2, and that did not "bankrupt the country." If that's Bin Laden's goal, he's got a long way to go.

$700 billion dollars and counting....

What if instead of wasting $700 billion dollars on a hole in the desert, we had spent that money on a project for American Energy Independence? The technology is there. The Danes and the Israelis already get 20% of their energy from solar and wind power. Why can't we? Because we don't have any leadership, that's why. AQ is a minor threat that was blown out of proportion by Bush-Cheney. A bunch of guys in a cave in Afganistan with no army, no navy, and no air force are not a threat to a country of 300 million people. We need new leadership and a new direction in America.

 

[onedomino]

$700 billion dollars and counting....

What if instead of wasting $700 billion dollars on a hole in the desert, we had spent that money on a project for American Energy Independence? The technology is there. The Danes and the Israelis already get 20% of their energy from solar and wind power. Why can't we? Because we don't have any leadership, that's why. AQ is a minor threat that was blown out of proportion by Bush-Cheney. A bunch of guys in a cave in Afganistan with no army, no navy, and no air force are not a threat to a country of 300 million people. We need new leadership and a new direction in America.

Not a threat? Where were you on 911? AQ is trying to kill Americans. And they have murdered thousands of us in the past. They would do it again in a heartbeat if they had the chance. Not even someone as extreme Left as Obama would deny that. Now AQ is reconstituted in Pakistan, a country with a significant radical Islamist population, and a country with nuclear weapons that AQ would love to gets its hands on. Do you think that those who guard Paki nukes are immune to radical Islam? If you do not see AQ as a threat, you are not using much imagination. But be assured, they are.

 

[Gunny]

Thanks for proving my point. Bush can't invade Pakistan because it would be political suicide. It would drive a nuclear armed Pakistan right into the extremist camp.

No terrorist group has ever been destroyed militarily. The British fought the IRA for eighty years until a political solution was reached.

Bin Laden said his goal was to bankrupt America. Bush is helping him accomplish his goal. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

Incorrect. My point is that would be political suicide only with folks of YOUR obvious stripe. Normal thinking people that have even a basic understanding of strategy and tactics would applaud a cross-border strike and Pakistan wouldn't do shit but rattle it's saber.

A terrorist group can be destroyed militarily IF the military is allowed to run them to ground.

By political solution you mean appeasing terrorists and not holding them accountable for their crimes. Why don't you just cut to the chase and hand them the keys to the White House while you're at it?

No society ever survived that didn't have the balls to even defend itself.

 

[Chris]

Not a threat? Where were you on 911? AQ is trying to kill Americans. And they have murdered thousands of us in the past. They would do it again in a heartbeat if they had the chance. Not even someone as extreme Left as Obama would deny that. Now AQ is reconstituted in Pakistan, a country with a significant radical Islamist population, and a country with nuclear weapons that AQ would love to gets its hands on. Do you think that those who guard Paki nukes are immune to radical Islam? If you do not see AQ as a threat, you are not using much imagination. But be assured, they are.

AQ is a minor threat. Here are some major threats....

China, thousands of nuclear weapons, modern military, population of 1.1 billion people.

Russia, thousands of nuclear weapons, modern military, ruled by a dictator.

Cancer, it killed 500,000 Americans last year. How many Americans were killed by terrorists?

 

[Gunny]

$700 billion dollars and counting....

What if instead of wasting $700 billion dollars on a hole in the desert, we had spent that money on a project for American Energy Independence? The technology is there. The Danes and the Israelis already get 20% of their energy from solar and wind power. Why can't we? Because we don't have any leadership, that's why. AQ is a minor threat that was blown out of proportion by Bush-Cheney. A bunch of guys in a cave in Afganistan with no army, no navy, and no air force are not a threat to a country of 300 million people. We need new leadership and a new direction in America.

Solar and wind power are inefficient, and irrelevant to this topic. It doesn't require leadership to sell you on putting corn in your gas tank. Just a salesman.

Perhaps you can explain this "no threat to a country of 300 million people" to that big fucking hole in the ground in NYC?

We might need new leadership, but it sure as Hell isn't anyone that thinks like YOU.

 

[Dr Grump]

A certain type of American always needs somebody to fight. Why? Who knows...a need to enforce their superiority? Every indicator points to AQ and similar being nothing but blips on a radar in the political world. They get far more press than they deserve, and at the end of the day are just a niche group. Groups like them will never die, no matter how much military might you put behind the effort. These guys currently have one of arguably the most modern military in the world hunting them down and in five years STILL haven't been able to kill them.

That aside, Kirk is on the money. Bush and his puppet masters have done nothing but create a whole generation of ME Ameri-haters due to their myopic view of the world. Idiots...

 

[jillian]

Solar and wind power are inefficient, and irrelevant to this topic. It doesn't require leadership to sell you on putting corn in your gas tank. Just a salesman.

Perhaps you can explain this "no threat to a country of 300 million people" to that big fucking hole in the ground in NYC?

We might need new leadership, but it sure as Hell isn't anyone that thinks like YOU.

funny the people here with "the big fucking hole in the ground" think that the threat was addressed really stupidly and aren't half as angry at the world as the folk who don't live near the big hole in the ground.

and i'd suggest that anything would be better than the people who think like the ones the repubs keep giving us and who've messed up for the last two terms. on the other hand, if it weren't for the supreme court justices, i'd agree with grump and say that the loonies should just keep it going for another 4 because they've messed up so bad, there's no way it can be fixed in one term and it would just give y'all an excuse to blame the dems for bush's screw ups.

 

[Chris]

Solar and wind power are inefficient, and irrelevant to this topic. It doesn't require leadership to sell you on putting corn in your gas tank. Just a salesman.

Perhaps you can explain this "no threat to a country of 300 million people" to that big fucking hole in the ground in NYC?

We might need new leadership, but it sure as Hell isn't anyone that thinks like YOU.

The Saudis are the terrorists. We are financing them with the purchase of their oil. How embarassing is it that Bush just went to the Saudis to beg for more oil and they said no? What could be more telling than that?

Solar and wind are inefficient? Do you know who T. Boone Pickens is? He is a Texas oilman who predicted ten years ago that we were going to run out of oil. Do you know what he is doing now? He is investing billions of dollars of his own money on wind farms in Oklahoma and Texas. Google him. He is the kind of man that will save America.

Who said anything about corn? The most efficient way to produce ethanol is by growing algae. Algae are 50% oil. With algae farms you can grow 1,000 times more ethanol per acre than with corn.

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars to protect us from a few guys in a cave in Pakistan is ridiculous. We should develop American Energy Independence, bring the troops home, and put them on the Mexican border.

 

[Gunny]

funny the people here with "the big fucking hole in the ground" think that the threat was addressed really stupidly and aren't half as angry at the world as the folk who don't live near the big hole in the ground.

and i'd suggest that anything would be better than the people who think like the ones the repubs keep giving us and who've messed up for the last two terms. on the other hand, if it weren't for the supreme court justices, i'd agree with grump and say that the loonies should just keep it going for another 4 because they've messed up so bad, there's no way it can be fixed in one term and it would just give y'all an excuse to blame the dems for bush's screw ups.

Got news for ya, jillian ... based on responses to external threats by Democrat Presidents in the past 40 years -- that would be "all" two of them, you ought to just be REAL quiet about who you point a finger at. At least the Republicans actually DID something.

And oddly enough, I recall almost everyone, with the exception of the usual suspects, applauding going into Afghanistan at the time.

Who are you calling y'all? I blame Dems for what DEMS screw up. It isn't like I have to look hard or far to find plenty.

You apparently have had a memory lapse in the past few seconds. I don't have to support everything the Republicans do to be against the loons running YOUR party.

Most of what Bush has screwed up exists only between your ears.

 

[Gunny]

The Saudis are the terrorists. We are financing them with the purchase of their oil. How embarassing is it that Bush just went to the Saudis to beg for more oil and they said no? What could be more telling than that?.

The saudis are not "the" terrorists. There are Saudi terrorists.

How does the Saudis saying no to Bush's request for increased oil production equate to them being terrorists within the context of this thread?

Solar and wind are inefficient? Do you know who T. Boone Pickens is? He is a Texas oilman who predicted ten years ago that we were going to run out of oil. Do you know what he is doing now? He is investing billions of dollars of his own money on wind farms in Oklahoma and Texas. Google him. He is the kind of man that will save America.

And T Boone Pickens prediction makes solar and wind power more efficient HOW exactly?

he isn't going to save shit. I've seen the wind farms and I've INSTALLED solar panels. Both rely on the weather to produce.

Who said anything about corn? The most efficient way to produce ethanol is by growing algae. Algae are 50% oil. With algae farms you can grow 1,000 times more ethanol per acre than with corn.

Sure thing. Just where is it you propose to put all these wind farms and algae farms and solar panels? Going to confiscate private property for the "good of the state?" Where are you going to store this energy and how are you going to transfer this energy?

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars to protect us from a few guys in a cave in Pakistan is ridiculous. We should develop American Energy Independence, bring the troops home, and put them on the Mexican border.

We have not wasted hundreds of billions of dollars to protect us from a few guys in caves in Pakistan. What is ridiculous is the spin you put on it.

We invaded Afghanistan in retaliation. Period. We removed the Taliban from power in retaliation. Period. We are currently in Afghanistan attempting to help Afghanistan establish a government that is not controlled by Islamic extremists.

We AREN'T protecting us from a few guys in caves.

 

[Chris]

You really should do a little more reading....


CNN reported that T. Boone Pickens is now sinking billions into a wind farm near Abilene, TX, which is expected to become the biggest such operation in the world. He has bought 667 turbines from General Electric.

Upon completion in seven years, the project is expected to include more than 2,500 turbines and to produce enough electricity to power 1.3 million homes, Pickens said.

“It will be about $8 billion in wind turbines and $2 billion in transmission (lines). It will probably be over $10 billion,” Pickens told CNBC.