US govt's reaction to a US company having to pay tax is another country...

[yiostheoy]

Another view is that all children learn at their own pace, and are around those who are of the same level, so you have Grammar Schools where the smarter students are, and you have "dunce schools" where the less bright are.

Two views of fair. Which is fair? It's all about opinion. I'd go for the second type myself.

That is an intriguing question.

I would say that both are fair, as long as both exist as options and are not forced.

If someone was forced to go through either option, then at very least I would resonate with them.

But you can't have both systems in operation at the same time. Otherwise you have neither.

But the point being that "fair" can be different things to different people. However sometimes there is only unfair, and in the case of Apple, there was no fair about it, and the US govt, both Republican and Democrat, are screaming how fair is so unfair and unfair is fair. The people who supposedly represent the people.

Apple should pay and accrue their tax and stop lying to Wall Street and to their shareholders.

Apple is corrupt to the core (no pun intended). So is Microsoft, and others.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Business Live: White House 'concern' over Apple ruling - BBC News

Apple have been told to pay €13bn ($14.5bn) to Ireland, who say they don't want Apple's money, by the EU.

Ireland is a country that suffered quite a lot during the recession and could probably ill afford to lose €13bn. However the Irish govt seems to have been bought by big business.

All that's happened here is the EU says it's illegal to charge one company one tax rate, and another company another tax rate. In other words Apple should have been playing 12% tax in Ireland just like everyone else, instead it managed to get a 1% tax rate.

But this is how the US reacted.

Paul Ryan said it was "awful". "This is precisely the kind of unpredictable and heavy-handed taxation that kills jobs and opportunity,"

Yeah, 12% tax for a company that can EASILY pay this tax, kills jobs, but for other companies in Ireland it's just an every day thing. When most people are paying far more tax than this, why is Apple not paying tax?

John Earnest said it's unfair to the US taxpayer that an American company has to pay taxes in another country.

"We are concerned about a unilateral approach ... that threaten to undermine progress that we have made collaboratively with the Europeans to make the international taxation system fair,"

He talks about a fair system of tax, and that most companies paying 12% and Apple paying 1% appears to him to be fair, whereas Apple paying the same as everyone is, apparently, UNFAIR.



Now the question here is, who runs the governments? It appears they'll roll over for large corporations who can pay the tax and give them an unfair competitive advantage against smaller companies. You get people like Trump and Hillary saying they'd help smaller companies, but it appears that larger companies are always going to do better as they just threaten to leave a country and move somewhere else.

So, what should be done about this? In the US it's a massive problem with states and cities all competing against each other. What the EU has done is basically say this is wrong (and it is wrong) and that states should act fairly with all companies in their country (which is right).

The OECD and EU are striving to implement BEPS rules (Base Erosion Profit Shifting) that prevent what Apple, Microsoft, and other multinational liars are doing.

And the funny thing is that the US and Irish government are going crazy over it.

Once the British leave, expect lots of multi-nationals being invited to pay almost no tax.

 

[yiostheoy]

You keep equivocating on the word 'fair', as though it's a black and white, all-or-nothing, proposition. We can have more fair, or less fair, more equal, or less equal, better or worse. Do you have a preference?

I disagree.

By definition, if something is discriminatory, then it is not fair.

Society has a tendency to make all words measurable nowadays, which is a grave mistake for society.

Ok. I get it. You're just trying to derail the thread with your own pet philosophical fetish. I do sort of wonder why, but I don't guess it matters.

In the mean time, I hope this issue raises more awareness of how much our tax code is polluted by corporatist state policies. The purpose of taxation is to fund government, not to manipulate behavior.

The tax code is not polluted.

The Treasury Regulations are what is polluted.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Another view is that all children learn at their own pace, and are around those who are of the same level, so you have Grammar Schools where the smarter students are, and you have "dunce schools" where the less bright are.

Two views of fair. Which is fair? It's all about opinion. I'd go for the second type myself.

That is an intriguing question.

I would say that both are fair, as long as both exist as options and are not forced.

If someone was forced to go through either option, then at very least I would resonate with them.

But you can't have both systems in operation at the same time. Otherwise you have neither.

But the point being that "fair" can be different things to different people. However sometimes there is only unfair, and in the case of Apple, there was no fair about it, and the US govt, both Republican and Democrat, are screaming how fair is so unfair and unfair is fair. The people who supposedly represent the people.

Apple should pay and accrue their tax and stop lying to Wall Street and to their shareholders.

Apple is corrupt to the core (no pun intended). So is Microsoft, and others.

Yeah, but like most big companies, they try and cheat their way out of paying tax.

 

[Onyx]

Another view is that all children learn at their own pace, and are around those who are of the same level, so you have Grammar Schools where the smarter students are, and you have "dunce schools" where the less bright are.

Two views of fair. Which is fair? It's all about opinion. I'd go for the second type myself.

That is an intriguing question.

I would say that both are fair, as long as both exist as options and are not forced.

If someone was forced to go through either option, then at very least I would resonate with them.

But you can't have both systems in operation at the same time. Otherwise you have neither.

Why not?

You could have a school system that operates one way, and a different school system that operates another way.

Whether it is private or state schooling.

But the point being that "fair" can be different things to different people. However sometimes there is only unfair, and in the case of Apple, there was no fair about it, and the US govt, both Republican and Democrat, are screaming how fair is so unfair and unfair is fair. The people who supposedly represent the people.

If you can declare something as being universally unfair using your definition, then I can also declare something as being universally unfair using my definition.

The position you are taking is contradictory. You are saying that there are multiple legitimate definitions, but only yours applies to the case with Apple. At least that is what it sounds like.

 

[yiostheoy]

And the funny thing is that the US and Irish government are going crazy over it.

Once the British leave, expect lots of multi-nationals being invited to pay almost no tax.

Ireland (The Irish Republic) is a member of the EU, and the EU does not want any of its members to give tax holidays or to be tax havens like Singapore, Switzerland, or Israel.

Until Ireland quits the EU they are stuck with the rulings of the EU court.

My prediction is that as a result of this, Ireland will quit the EU as well.

 

[yiostheoy]

Another view is that all children learn at their own pace, and are around those who are of the same level, so you have Grammar Schools where the smarter students are, and you have "dunce schools" where the less bright are.

Two views of fair. Which is fair? It's all about opinion. I'd go for the second type myself.

That is an intriguing question.

I would say that both are fair, as long as both exist as options and are not forced.

If someone was forced to go through either option, then at very least I would resonate with them.

But you can't have both systems in operation at the same time. Otherwise you have neither.

But the point being that "fair" can be different things to different people. However sometimes there is only unfair, and in the case of Apple, there was no fair about it, and the US govt, both Republican and Democrat, are screaming how fair is so unfair and unfair is fair. The people who supposedly represent the people.

Apple should pay and accrue their tax and stop lying to Wall Street and to their shareholders.

Apple is corrupt to the core (no pun intended). So is Microsoft, and others.

Yeah, but like most big companies, they try and cheat their way out of paying tax.

Correct.

Not only cheat, but lie to Wall Street and to their own stockholders.

It is corruption on a grand scale -- Wall Street corruption as well as tax fraud.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Another view is that all children learn at their own pace, and are around those who are of the same level, so you have Grammar Schools where the smarter students are, and you have "dunce schools" where the less bright are.

Two views of fair. Which is fair? It's all about opinion. I'd go for the second type myself.

That is an intriguing question.

I would say that both are fair, as long as both exist as options and are not forced.

If someone was forced to go through either option, then at very least I would resonate with them.

But you can't have both systems in operation at the same time. Otherwise you have neither.

Why not?

You could have a school system that operates one way, and a different school system that operates another way.

Whether it is private or state schooling.

But the point being that "fair" can be different things to different people. However sometimes there is only unfair, and in the case of Apple, there was no fair about it, and the US govt, both Republican and Democrat, are screaming how fair is so unfair and unfair is fair. The people who supposedly represent the people.

If you can declare something as being universally unfair using your definition, then I can also declare something as being universally unfair using my definition.

The position you are taking is contradictory. You are saying that there are multiple legitimate definitions, but only yours applies to the case with Apple. At least that is what it sounds like.

You could have different school systems doing different things. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about within one school system. Even with separate school systems you have problems on the boundaries as people will move to one or the other unless you control.

But it makes no difference, you either force people into one system or the other system.

You can declare whatever you like. You are free to declare most things. However we're having a debate and I would assume trying to find which is the best way.

However I'm not being contradictory.

Another example is with art. Art is subjective. One person can say this painting by Picasso is a master piece, the best painting the world has ever seen, and another can say it's a piece of crap, or that there are better, and it's just okay. The painting is subjective.

However some paintings are just a load of crap, and in no way will they ever be considered any good by anyone at any time, ever (except the muppet who painted it, and even then probably not).

Sometimes you have that three way thing. Possibly yes, possibly no and definitely no.

This is exactly what I've done. There's no way in hell anyone is going to say that all companies in Ireland have to pay 12% tax, except Apple and maybe a few other corporations is fair. However whether all corporations having to pay 12% the same as everyone else is fair is debatable.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And the funny thing is that the US and Irish government are going crazy over it.

Once the British leave, expect lots of multi-nationals being invited to pay almost no tax.

Ireland (The Irish Republic) is a member of the EU, and the EU does not want any of its members to give tax holidays or to be tax havens like Singapore, Switzerland, or Israel.

Until Ireland quits the EU they are stuck with the rulings of the EU court.

My prediction is that as a result of this, Ireland will quit the EU as well.

I doubt it.

Imagine the govt going to the people and telling the people that the reason they want to leave the EU is because they can't continue to screw the people of Ireland over any more.

 

[dblack]

Are there any national campaigns, in the U.S., to address this problem? Is anyone even talking about it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Another view is that all children learn at their own pace, and are around those who are of the same level, so you have Grammar Schools where the smarter students are, and you have "dunce schools" where the less bright are.

Two views of fair. Which is fair? It's all about opinion. I'd go for the second type myself.

That is an intriguing question.

I would say that both are fair, as long as both exist as options and are not forced.

If someone was forced to go through either option, then at very least I would resonate with them.

But you can't have both systems in operation at the same time. Otherwise you have neither.

But the point being that "fair" can be different things to different people. However sometimes there is only unfair, and in the case of Apple, there was no fair about it, and the US govt, both Republican and Democrat, are screaming how fair is so unfair and unfair is fair. The people who supposedly represent the people.

Apple should pay and accrue their tax and stop lying to Wall Street and to their shareholders.

Apple is corrupt to the core (no pun intended). So is Microsoft, and others.

Yeah, but like most big companies, they try and cheat their way out of paying tax.

Correct.

Not only cheat, but lie to Wall Street and to their own stockholders.

It is corruption on a grand scale -- Wall Street corruption as well as tax fraud.

Yeah, and it needs to stop.

The reality is, if the US gave a damn about its own people, they'd have tried to make many countries join a union of some kind where certain tax laws were in place to stop this happening.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Are there any national campaigns, in the U.S., to address this problem? Is anyone even talking about it?

Nope, they're talking about whether Hillary's ill, whether Trump is doing dodgy things with his tax, whether the US is racist or not and things like that. Nothing that changes anything.