US Drawing Up Plans To Sink the Russian Black Sea Fleet: Ukrainian Official

[AZrailwhale]

Ever heard of the Bay of Pigs? Are you aware of the numerous times our government tried to kill Castro? Are you aware of the numerous efforts to overthrow Castro’s government?

The Bay of Pigs was cancelled. No US forces participated, only Cuban Exiles. If the Cuban people had risen up against Castro, JFK would have committed US support, but they didn't. Nothing the US did amounted to an invasion or acts of war against Cuba. Cuba, on the other hand, sent combat troops to support revolutions all over the world.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If you can't be convinced that Russia's security is being challenged by America then we're never going to reach agreement.

I'm just happy that we can have differing opinions and still are able to discuss the issues like adults!

Hang in there!

Russia's security is most definitely NOT being challenged by the USA. Russia can do anything it wants INSODE it's borders. We only oppose Russia when it invades it's neighbors.

 

[justoffal]

China has no ambitions to slaughter their own people in Taiwan. They have never indicated that they are interested in winning Taiwan back by means of a war.
China will only react appropriately to US threats of aggression against their country.

Yeah...makes perfect sense.
When the time is right diplomacy will ultimately triumph....the only violent element in this game so far is Western interference.

 

[justoffal]

Does the US have the Skvar torpedo yet?
That most likely ends any viability of submarine warfare too.

I think it actually depends a lot on which nuclear power strikes first.

But then in reality even that doesn't make much difference.

It's good to discuss the questions because it effectively neutralizes the 'confidence' propaganda being fed to the people for the purpose of keeping them from balking against the war.

I read an article from a swedish military journal about Russia's fleet of robots subs. They're completely electric and don't have propellers so they're nearly impossible to detect by Sonar. Not only can they be controlled remotely but they can also break communication completely from home base and still complete their mission based on internal programming.

The Entire sub is a weapon. It can be fitted with up to a 100 megaton charge. Left to its own device it can stealthily creep up to the shoreline of any continent and detonate. Let's say it was 100 mgtn. charge. The resulting mushroom cloud would be well over 60 miles high in several minutes. Radiation fallout would destroy the ecosystem for hundreds of miles in every direction. Now imagine a dozen of these striking the shoreline intermittently and impossible to detect. Well you get the picture.

 

[justoffal]

Donald H

Yes, agree... Otherwise if these vessels don't have certain types of deterrents, along with radar guided smart missiles or smart Gatling guns that can stop the threats before they can make a strike, then it is the end for sure.

The Gatlings are pretty good for conventional rocketry since the detection system gives a response time of up to a minute.
But the hypersonics reduce that window of opportunity to something under 15 seconds...you can see where the problem is there. Joining the navy at this point might be a bit nerve-racking.

 

[justoffal]

I've been noticing that even suggestions of a possible threat has a high impact on the American psyche.
Fwiw, I've seen with my own eyes certain roads are kept closed and the gates are strictly manned by armed guards.

It's a foolhardy attitude that is uniquely American. Imbued with the arrogant misapprehension of moral superiority and the dangerous misconception of military almightiness...the American public at large seem quite willing to engage in spanking via international violence at the drop of a hat!

Until they get that compassion visit from the Chaplain's office that is.

 

[Redfish]

And if you had bothered to read the news article that gave rise to this thread, you would have seen in the third paragraph that the proposal was to supply Ukraine with anti ship missiles and not for the US to target Russian ships.

Gerashchenko cited the Reuters report on Washington’s effort to ship Harpoon and Naval Strike Missiles to Ukraine. The missiles have a range of up to 300 km and cost $1.5 million each.

US Drawing Up Plans To Sink the Russian Black Sea Fleet: Ukrainian Official - News From Antiwar.com

Shortly after Reuters published an exclusive story that the White House was looking to move advanced anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, an official in Kiev said that the US is making a plan to sink Russia’s Black Sea Fleet. Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs adviser Anton Gerashchenko tweeted...

news.antiwar.com

The article goes on to say that it has not yet been decided whether to deliver the missiles directly to Ukraine or to deliver them to eastern European countries that would then deliver them to Ukraine. There is nothing in this article to suggest the US was considering targeting Russian ships itself.

Clearly, the claim that the US was planning to attack Russian ships is a lie by the OP that you are now spreading.

I did read and understand it. either way they are US arms that would be killing Russians, Giving, not selling, those missiles to Ukraine would be an act of war by the US against Russia, no matter how you spin it, thats how it would be seen by the world.

 

[Redfish]

It's not an act of war to close your waters to ships owned by combatants. In fact it's required by international law. For an example, the badly damaged Graf Spee was refused sanctuary in Montevideo harbor after her battle with HMS Ajax, Achilles and Exeter. She had to either leave or be interned for the duration of the war. That's why Ludendorff scuttled her. So no, closing their waters to Russian shipping WOULDN'T be an act of war. Just like all the countries that have closed their airspace to Russian owned aircraft wasn't an act of war.

If the Russians retaliate, that closing the waters act, would have started a war. There is no body of international law that can be enforced on what constitutes an act of war. All that matters is how the other side perceives it, and right now with the weakest president in our history, our enemies are looking for any excuse to wipe us out. The election coup of 2020 could be the starting point for the end of civilization on earth.

 

[Redfish]

China has no ambitions to slaughter their own people in Taiwan. They have never indicated that they are interested in winning Taiwan back by means of a war.
China will only react appropriately to US threats of aggression against their country.

lol, you are very naive if you believe that. China wants Taiwan and will do whatever it takes to make it part of China again.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I did read and understand it. either way they are US arms that would be killing Russians, Giving, not selling, those missiles to Ukraine would be an act of war by the US against Russia, no matter how you spin it, thats how it would be seen by the world.

Under international law it is not an act of war and providing military aid to a country under attack has never been seen as an act of war.

 

[Donald H]

lol, you are very naive if you believe that. China wants Taiwan and will do whatever it takes to make it part of China again.

No, you're just an American warmonger who thinks that everything has to be done with bombs from 30,000 feet! 40 US wars of aggression since WW2 says it all.

Didn't you like how I got the title of the thread changed?

 

[Donald H]

It's a foolhardy attitude that is uniquely American. Imbued with the arrogant misapprehension of moral superiority and the dangerous misconception of military almightiness...the American public at large seem quite willing to engage in spanking via international violence at the drop of a hat!

Until they get that compassion visit from the Chaplain's office that is.

I'm afraid I have to agree with your, for a lot of people at least.

 

[Donald H]

I read an article from a swedish military journal about Russia's fleet of robots subs. They're completely electric and don't have propellers so they're nearly impossible to detect by Sonar. Not only can they be controlled remotely but they can also break communication completely from home base and still complete their mission based on internal programming.

The Entire sub is a weapon. It can be fitted with up to a 100 megaton charge. Left to its own device it can stealthily creep up to the shoreline of any continent and detonate. Let's say it was 100 mgtn. charge. The resulting mushroom cloud would be well over 60 miles high in several minutes. Radiation fallout would destroy the ecosystem for hundreds of miles in every direction. Now imagine a dozen of these striking the shoreline intermittently and impossible to detect. Well you get the picture.

I haven't heard but I can imagine that technology is possible and some are lying in wait a couple of miles off the American coast.

But it's still all just a fool's game because Russia could never escape the consequences. Getting in the first licks by any country is still meaningless.

Cheers, JO.

 

[Donald H]

Yeah...makes perfect sense.
When the time is right diplomacy will ultimately triumph....the only violent element in this game so far is Western interference.

China's methods and track record on taking Taiwan back speak loudly for many years.
I'm leaning toward believing China.

 

[justoffal]

China's methods and track record on taking Taiwan back speak loudly for many years.
I'm leaning toward believing China.

Well let's face it.....they could take it back by force but the resulting hell on earth would leave them with

1.) A huge and expensive rebuilding project
2.) The destruction of the Taiwanese economy
3.) lasting bitterness in the island population

It makes sense for them to wait...

JO

 

[justoffal]

I haven't heard but I can imagine that technology is possible and some are lying in wait a couple of miles off the American coast.

But it's still all just a fool's game because Russia could never escape the consequences. Getting in the first licks by any country is still meaningless.

Cheers, JO.

Yes....

 

[eagle1462010]

I did read and understand it. either way they are US arms that would be killing Russians, Giving, not selling, those missiles to Ukraine would be an act of war by the US against Russia, no matter how you spin it, thats how it would be seen by the world.

Then weapons given to our enemies in the sandy world by Russia was an act of War.

This has been done since WWII

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If the Russians retaliate, that closing the waters act, would have started a war. There is no body of international law that can be enforced on what constitutes an act of war. All that matters is how the other side perceives it, and right now with the weakest president in our history, our enemies are looking for any excuse to wipe us out. The election coup of 2020 could be the starting point for the end of civilization on earth.

You are out of your mind.

Where are rhe Russian allies talking like this, then? What enemies? Your comments are freakish. In reality, the US is leading the west in opposing Russia, while losing the war.

Russia has lost more soldiers in Ukriane than in the entire Afghanistan war. Their allies aren't even helping them. So where are these enemies that will wipe us out? You're ******* loony.

Current events are quite a contrast from the orange pile of shit's historical embarrassment of a presidency, and his putin ball licking.

 

[Redfish]

Under international law it is not an act of war and providing military aid to a country under attack has never been seen as an act of war.

Putin has already said he will consider it an act of war, is he bluffing? we shall see.

 

[Redfish]

You are out of your mind.

Where are rhe Russian allies talking like this, then? What enemies? Your comments are freakish. In reality, the US is leading the west in opposing Russia, while losing the war.

Russia has lost more soldiers in Ukriane than in the entire Afghanistan war. Their allies aren't even helping them. So where are these enemies that will wipe us out? You're ******* loony.

Current events are quite a contrast from the orange pile of shit's historical embarrassment of a presidency, and his putin ball licking.

I am correct, you are loony. When Ukrainian tanks enter Moscow I will agree that Ukraine can win, until then-----------------nope.