Unrealized Capital Gains Taxes

[colfax_m]

and both are bad ideas

Yeah, God forbid the investor class has to pay a little more in taxes.

 

[colfax_m]

There are no pros to it.

Other than narrowing budget deficit and reducing means of tax avoidance?

 

[colfax_m]

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Mac1958 you voted for these geniuses. What do you think about this ridonkulous idea?

Oaktree's Howard Marks says this tax proposal in the U.S. makes investing less attractive

Taxing capital gains as ordinary income would reduce tax avoidance and levels of speculation in the secondary market which, in the long run, would prove beneficial to society as a whole.

How might the taxation of capital gains be improved?

"Taxing capital gains at the same rates as ordinary income would simplify the tax system by removing major incentives for tax sheltering and other attempts to manipulate the system. This could be accomplished by taxing accrued capital gains on an annual basis."

I agree with this 100%. Capital gains and labor shouldn't be treated differently. This is one way that the wealthy game the tax system and is rife with abuse.

You are conflating 2 different things. If you want to tax REALIZED capital gains as ordinary income that is one discussion. Taxing UNREALIZED capital gains in entirely different.

I'm not confusing anything, I'm just responding to the statement from the previous poster.

Taxing unrealized capital gains, like any argument, has pros and cons. Yellen is just hearing the argument. No reason to get anyone's panties in a wad.

There are no pros from the people’s perspective and it opens a HUGE can of worms. Want to add the increase in the value of your home to your income every year to be taxed? What if it is only applied on the investment side? Do you have any idea how this would screw up the stock market? Stocks are bought and sold based on timing the market, evaluating companies financials, etc., not based solely on tax day. If you theoretically made 20k on a stock which you haven’t sold and that extra “income” pushes you to the next tax bracket, not only are you paying higher taxes overall, but you must pay x percent of your effective tax rate for the 20k, forcing many to sell their stock prematurely. This is the end game anyway. The government wants their tax money NOW. What happens if you don’t sell and pay the extra tax and the next year the stock drops back down to what you originally paid for it. Do I get a refund on the tax I paid on that gain plus interest as well as a refund on the extra tax I paid for being bumped into another bracket?

This is just another hair-brained Democratic idea to play Robin Hood, except this Robin Hood keeps and wastes most of what he stole instead of actually giving it to those in need.

It’s not simple but that’s what computers are for.

Houses are not subject to capital gains.

Something needs to be done about the budget deficit and closing loopholes.

 

[BluesLegend]

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Pelosi is on record wanting to tax our 401k's and IRA's now so she can spend the money, vs waiting until we retire and begin taking draws. Biden is on record wanting to PUNISH those who contribute too much to their retirement but seizing their money and redistributing their retirement contributions to other people.

 

[Thinker101]

and both are bad ideas

Yeah, God forbid the investor class has to pay a little more in taxes.

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

 

[Blues Man]

There are no pros to it.

Other than narrowing budget deficit and reducing means of tax avoidance?

Investing is not tax avoidance as you pay taxes on every dollar of realized gain and you are only allowed to wrote off 3000 a year as a loss.

And it's not going to narrow any deficits all it will do is take a bigger bite out of people in the middle class when they get whacked with a huge tax burden when selling a business or a piece of property

 

[Blues Man]

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Pelosi is on record wanting to tax our 401k's and IRA's now so she can spend the money, vs waiting until we retire and begin taking draws. Biden is on record wanting to PUNISH those who contribute too much to their retirement but seizing their money and redistributing their retirement contributions to other people.

I hate to tell you this but 401ks have a horrible tax treatment. ALL the gains are taxed as regular income not capital gains as they should be and the government tells you how much you have to take out every year so they can squeeze every last tax dollar possible out of you.

 

[DBA]

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Mac1958 you voted for these geniuses. What do you think about this ridonkulous idea?

Oaktree's Howard Marks says this tax proposal in the U.S. makes investing less attractive

Taxing capital gains as ordinary income would reduce tax avoidance and levels of speculation in the secondary market which, in the long run, would prove beneficial to society as a whole.

How might the taxation of capital gains be improved?

"Taxing capital gains at the same rates as ordinary income would simplify the tax system by removing major incentives for tax sheltering and other attempts to manipulate the system. This could be accomplished by taxing accrued capital gains on an annual basis."

I agree with this 100%. Capital gains and labor shouldn't be treated differently. This is one way that the wealthy game the tax system and is rife with abuse.

You are conflating 2 different things. If you want to tax REALIZED capital gains as ordinary income that is one discussion. Taxing UNREALIZED capital gains in entirely different.

I'm not confusing anything, I'm just responding to the statement from the previous poster.

Taxing unrealized capital gains, like any argument, has pros and cons. Yellen is just hearing the argument. No reason to get anyone's panties in a wad.

There are no pros from the people’s perspective and it opens a HUGE can of worms. Want to add the increase in the value of your home to your income every year to be taxed? What if it is only applied on the investment side? Do you have any idea how this would screw up the stock market? Stocks are bought and sold based on timing the market, evaluating companies financials, etc., not based solely on tax day. If you theoretically made 20k on a stock which you haven’t sold and that extra “income” pushes you to the next tax bracket, not only are you paying higher taxes overall, but you must pay x percent of your effective tax rate for the 20k, forcing many to sell their stock prematurely. This is the end game anyway. The government wants their tax money NOW. What happens if you don’t sell and pay the extra tax and the next year the stock drops back down to what you originally paid for it. Do I get a refund on the tax I paid on that gain plus interest as well as a refund on the extra tax I paid for being bumped into another bracket?

This is just another hair-brained Democratic idea to play Robin Hood, except this Robin Hood keeps and wastes most of what he stole instead of actually giving it to those in need.

It’s not simple but that’s what computers are for.

Houses are not subject to capital gains.

Something needs to be done about the budget deficit and closing loopholes.

Taxing unrealized capital gains will screw up the markets. Computers are programmed by people. GIGO

Primary residences are not subject to capital gains. Secondary or other homes are.

Cut spending and I am all for closing loopholes.

 

[Blues Man]

and both are bad ideas

Yeah, God forbid the investor class has to pay a little more in taxes.

Like most of these tax scams it's the middle class that will bear the burden not the rich

 

[colfax_m]

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

This would affect me greatly.

But it wouldn’t affect the run of the mill person as IRAs and 401ks would be unaffected and the vast majority of people don’t max those out anyway.

 

[Blues Man]

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

This would affect me greatly.

But it wouldn’t affect the run of the mill person as IRAs and 401ks would be unaffected and the vast majority of people don’t max those out anyway.

Actually all the gains in your 401 are already taxed as regular income.

Just one more way the fucking government screws over the little guy.

A Roth IRA or 401 is the only way to save for retirement.

 

[colfax_m]

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Mac1958 you voted for these geniuses. What do you think about this ridonkulous idea?

Oaktree's Howard Marks says this tax proposal in the U.S. makes investing less attractive

Taxing capital gains as ordinary income would reduce tax avoidance and levels of speculation in the secondary market which, in the long run, would prove beneficial to society as a whole.

How might the taxation of capital gains be improved?

"Taxing capital gains at the same rates as ordinary income would simplify the tax system by removing major incentives for tax sheltering and other attempts to manipulate the system. This could be accomplished by taxing accrued capital gains on an annual basis."

I agree with this 100%. Capital gains and labor shouldn't be treated differently. This is one way that the wealthy game the tax system and is rife with abuse.

You are conflating 2 different things. If you want to tax REALIZED capital gains as ordinary income that is one discussion. Taxing UNREALIZED capital gains in entirely different.

I'm not confusing anything, I'm just responding to the statement from the previous poster.

Taxing unrealized capital gains, like any argument, has pros and cons. Yellen is just hearing the argument. No reason to get anyone's panties in a wad.

There are no pros from the people’s perspective and it opens a HUGE can of worms. Want to add the increase in the value of your home to your income every year to be taxed? What if it is only applied on the investment side? Do you have any idea how this would screw up the stock market? Stocks are bought and sold based on timing the market, evaluating companies financials, etc., not based solely on tax day. If you theoretically made 20k on a stock which you haven’t sold and that extra “income” pushes you to the next tax bracket, not only are you paying higher taxes overall, but you must pay x percent of your effective tax rate for the 20k, forcing many to sell their stock prematurely. This is the end game anyway. The government wants their tax money NOW. What happens if you don’t sell and pay the extra tax and the next year the stock drops back down to what you originally paid for it. Do I get a refund on the tax I paid on that gain plus interest as well as a refund on the extra tax I paid for being bumped into another bracket?

This is just another hair-brained Democratic idea to play Robin Hood, except this Robin Hood keeps and wastes most of what he stole instead of actually giving it to those in need.

It’s not simple but that’s what computers are for.

Houses are not subject to capital gains.

Something needs to be done about the budget deficit and closing loopholes.

Taxing unrealized capital gains will screw up the markets. Computers are programmed by people. GIGO

Primary residences are not subject to capital gains. Secondary or other homes are.

Cut spending and I am all for closing loopholes.

Yeah, I’m a little less concerned about the tax implications of secondary residences.

The markets will be fine.

 

[colfax_m]

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

This would affect me greatly.

But it wouldn’t affect the run of the mill person as IRAs and 401ks would be unaffected and the vast majority of people don’t max those out anyway.

Actually all the gains in your 401 are already taxed as regular income.

Just one more way the fucking government screws over the little guy.

A Roth IRA or 401 is the only way to save for retirement.

401ks are taxed as regular income only upon withdrawal. Its a tax deferred plan. There’s no Capitol gains assessed on it.

How exactly does that screw over the little guy?

 

[Blues Man]

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

This would affect me greatly.

But it wouldn’t affect the run of the mill person as IRAs and 401ks would be unaffected and the vast majority of people don’t max those out anyway.

Actually all the gains in your 401 are already taxed as regular income.

Just one more way the fucking government screws over the little guy.

A Roth IRA or 401 is the only way to save for retirement.

401ks are taxed as regular income only upon withdrawal. Its a tax deferred plan. There’s no Capitol gains assessed on it.

How exactly does that screw over the little guy?

No shit that's what i said. Do you know why the gains are not taxed at the capital gains rate?

That along with the required minimum withdrawals are designed to wring every penny in taxes out of people in retirement as possible.

 

[colfax_m]

No shit that's what i said. Do you know why the gains are not taxed at the capital gains rate?

That along with the required minimum withdrawals are designed to wring every penny possible out of people in retirement as possible.

I’m well aware. You said it screws over the little guy. It seems like a good deal to me. Can you explain. Why you said that?

 

[Muhammed]

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Mac1958 you voted for theve geniuses. What do you think about this ridonkulous idea?

Oaktree's Howard Marks says this tax proposal in the U.S. makes investing less attractive

That would be a shitty idea. But I've never heard her say that, so I'd need to know more. And I very much doubt that, if she did think it, it would go anywhere.

No reason to make assumptions on such thin evidence.

Virtually all of his appointee’s are kooks. Yes, Yellon thinks it is a good idea.

Biden’s treasury secretary, the kook that she is, is in favor of taxing unrealized capital gains. How dumb can these folks be?

Mac1958 you voted for theve geniuses. What do you think about this ridonkulous idea?

Oaktree's Howard Marks says this tax proposal in the U.S. makes investing less attractive

That would be a shitty idea. But I've never heard her say that, so I'd need to know more. And I very much doubt that, if she did think it, it would go anywhere.

No reason to make assumptions on such thin evidence.

It is not thin evidence.

She raised eyebrows of some senators and Wall Street when she said that Treasury would consider the possibility of taxing unrealized capital gains - through a “mark-to-market” mechanism - as well as other approaches to boost revenues.

Don’t kid yourself. She buys into all the left-wing kooky economic theories. The “pay their fair share” crowd and fixing “economic inequality” meaning playing Robin Hood. You voted for it and virtually all of us will pay for it.

Run a decent candidate and I'll be able to do what I prefer to do, and that's vote third party.

Run a dangerous, ignorant, destructive buffoon and I'll have to vote Democrat.

This idea won't go anywhere.

How was Trump destructive from a policy perspective? Seems to me these types of policies proposed by the Biden administration are far more destructive than anything Trump did.

You know the arguments, and you'll dismiss them all.

If you don't know the arguments, you're on the internet. They won't be hard to find.

In other words, you cannot provide an argument to support your TDS inspired position.

If you look at it objectively, Trump has been the best president in your lifetime. You've just been brainwashed by the fake news media into believing he was destructive in some non-specific way.

 

[Thinker101]

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

This would affect me greatly.

But it wouldn’t affect the run of the mill person as IRAs and 401ks would be unaffected and the vast majority of people don’t max those out anyway.

Currently IRA's and 401k's are unaffected, if they should tax unrealized gains, you can bet IRA's and 401k's would be on the table.

 

[Blues Man]

No shit that's what i said. Do you know why the gains are not taxed at the capital gains rate?

That along with the required minimum withdrawals are designed to wring every penny possible out of people in retirement as possible.

I’m well aware. You said it screws over the little guy. It seems like a good deal to me. Can you explain. Why you said that?

Since the gains far outweigh the contributions in most 401 ks used for retirement instead of getting favorable tax treatment on the gains of a 15% rate it is taxed as regular income.

BUT people are not allowed to take out what they decide to take out because of the required minimum withdrawal. If a person takes out less than the RMD he will get a 50% tax penalty. Since the RMD is calculated on an age based formula the percentage of your 401k that you must withdraw every year increases. The only reason to do this is to wring every tax dollar possible out of aging retirees and to leave them with as little money as possible in their retirement accounts so they can't leave to their families.

For this reason the only retirement vehicle worth using is a Roth 401 where you pay the tax on your contribution which is very little for most people but ALL the gains are TAX FREE so your money goes farther

 

[colfax_m]

You dumb SOB, anyone not living paycheck to paycheck is in the investor class. Too bad you aren't included.

This would affect me greatly.

But it wouldn’t affect the run of the mill person as IRAs and 401ks would be unaffected and the vast majority of people don’t max those out anyway.

Currently IRA's and 401k's are unaffected, if they should tax unrealized gains, you can bet IRA's and 401k's would be on the table.

Totally separate issue.

 

[colfax_m]

For this reason the only retirement vehicle worth using is a Roth 401 where you pay the tax on your contribution which is very little for most people but ALL the gains are TAX FREE so your money goes farther

Roth’s are only beneficial in certain circumstances. Specifically, when your tax rate at retirement is higher than your tax rate when you earn the money. If your tax rate were to be equal throughout your entire life, there is zero difference.

The vast majority of people are going to pay lower tax rates at retirement since their income will almost certainly be lower. That’s obviously not true for everyone.

The more accurate way to look at a 401k is that it avoids capital gains entirely and that’s true whether it’s a traditional or a Roth 401k.