Unions: The New 'Dinosaurs'?

[Toronado3800]

Do they believe in no regulations or what?

too stupid!! any half educated person would know that conservatives and libertarians believe in capitalist regulations which are so severe that they produce the highest standards of living in human history.

Liberals believe in socialist regulation because they lack the IQ to understand how capitalism works despite socialisms deadly failures.

So you support the minimum wage standards and hours of work regulations and all that OSHA stuff blindly? Make sense man. Give a decent answer.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So you support the minimum wage standards and hours of work regulations and all that OSHA stuff blindly?

too stupid!!! capitalists and libertarians support freedom between employers and employees. Any half educated person would know that??

 

[Toronado3800]

So you support the minimum wage standards and hours of work regulations and all that OSHA stuff blindly?

too stupid!!! capitalists and libertarians support freedom between employers and employees. Any half educated person would know that??

So you do not support the regulations you said you supported previously?

Is this confusining somehow. Just pick an answer. Some regulations suck. Some are good. Let me help you buddy.

First, you're a free market guy? How free market would you like to be? No safety regs either?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So you do not support the regulations you said you supported previously?

conservatives/libertarians support capitalist regulations because they instantly reversed all of human economic history.

 

[Toronado3800]

So you do not support the regulations you said you supported previously?

conservatives/libertarians support capitalist regulations because they instantly reversed all of human economic history.

Ok. Now is the time to mention which regulations. This is an entirely reasonable position you have taken.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So you do not support the regulations you said you supported previously?

conservatives/libertarians support capitalist regulations because they instantly reversed all of human economic history.

Ok. Now is the time to mention which regulations. This is an entirely reasonable position you have taken.

private property and peaceful voluntary transactions are the main two I'd say.

 

[MikeK]

Labor unions erect a big moat around their market. Anyone inside gets outsized benefits and wages. Anyone outside gets stiffed. Do away with labor unions now. Make it all voluntary.

yes very accurate. Unions use liberal government violence to get themselves more money and everyone else must pay for in higher prices. It should be criminal obviously.

It's as simple as that but since liberals lack the IQ to understand it the the union cancer persists.

What you need to understand is whether or not you are a union member you are earning much more than you would be earning had there not been a union movement, because a rising tide raises all boats.

I have posted my son-in-law's job history with the United Parcel Service several times in this forum. He presently drives a trailer for that company, which pays him a very respectable wage along with some excellent benefits. But he didn't just walk into that job, nor was he accepted in that Teamsters local without having some history.

The fact is he started with UPS sorting packages on the night shift. He did that for two years and moved up to loading trucks. From there he became a route driver, which he did for twelve years. He paid a school $2,500 to learn how to drive eighteen wheelers. When there was an opening UPS gave him a trial.

Do you think one just walks into a desirable, secure, good-paying job like that? And do you think the job would be that good were it not for the Teamsters Union? Don't you know that without the union there would long lines of drivers willing to work for less money? If you were one of those scabs and you managed to bump someone, how long do you think it would be before another scab bumped you? Because that's the way it goes when there are no unions. Where a $20 per hour standard presently exists it won't take long for scabs to drive it down to $5 per hour.

Did you see the movie, Hoffa? If not, I recommend you do. And keep in mind it's not fiction.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What you need to understand is whether or not you are a union member you are earning much more than you would be earning had there not been a union movement, because a rising tide raises all boats.

that of course is liberal, stupid, and demonstrates that as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

When a union uses violence to get a higher wages the government does not print more money to pay the higher wage, it comes from higher prices that peaceful non-violent people must pay.

In short, violent union workers rip off those who do not use union violence to get their wages. A union is not pro labor, just pro union labor and is happy to screw others.

 

[MikeK]

Without unions do you really believe you would have a chance of being paid what you are worth?

as a liberal you will be a perfect economic illiterate.

Under capitalism you must pay the higest wage possible or lose your best workers and go bankrupt!

It seems simple but a liberal will lack the IQ to understand that let alone challenge it.

During the Gilded Age, the era of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Wagner and other archetypal capitalists, the average wage earner was working 12 hour days, six day weeks for poverty wages with zero benefits and working conditions which in many jobs were lethally dangerous -- especially in mines and in steel mills. And when organized protests were raised gangs of armed goons, like the Pinkertons, were brought in to suppress them, often leaving corpses, the severely beaten, and the crippled behind. When you refer to union violence you overlook the original cause of it.

As usual you don't know what you're talking about. You really should do some reading so you won't appear so abjectly ignorant.

Here are some recommendations. Educate yourself:

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
What Do We Need A Union For
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Without unions do you really believe you would have a chance of being paid what you are worth?

as a liberal you will be a perfect economic illiterate.

Under capitalism you must pay the higest wage possible and provide the best working conditions possible or lose your best workers to those who will and go bankrupt!

It seems simple but a liberal will lack the IQ to understand that let alone challenge it.[/QUOTE]

During the Gilded Age, the era of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Wagner and other archetypal capitalists, the average wage earner was working 12 hour days.

This is Econ 101, class one, day one, minute one!!!!!!Under capitalism you must pay the higest wage possible and provide the best working conditions possible or lose your best workers to those who will and go bankrupt!
Have you ever heard of competition??????

The Robber Barons: Republicans Greatest Shame!

From: The Myth of The Robber Barrons by Forest McDonald


Edward Collins $33,000 per Atlantic crossing (page 7)
Cornelius Vanderbilt (robber barron) $15,000 per Atlantic crossing

Collins $600 NY to California
Vanderbilt (robber barron) 150 NY to California( page 12)


"James J Hill cut freight costs from 90 cents to 44 cents a pound" (page 34) and still made a profit while the heavily subsidized Union Pacific and Central Pacific always lost money

"Coopers charged 2.50 per barrel Rockefeller cut his to $.96" (Page 86)

"From 1865 to 1870, the price of kerosene dropped from 58 to 26 cents per gallon,
Rockefeller made profits during everyone of these years" (page 87)

"Before 1870, only the rich could afford whale oil and candles, The rest had to go to bed to save money. By 1870 with the drop in the price of Kerosene, the middle and working class people all over the nation could afford the one cent an hour that it cost to light their homes at night".( page 87)

"When Andrew Carnegie entered steel production in 1872, England dominated world production and the price of steel production was $56 per ton. By 1900 Carnegie Steel was manufacturing steel for $11.00 per ton and out stripping the entire production of England!" (page 126)

 

[MikeK]

that of course is liberal, stupid, and demonstrates that as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

When a union uses violence to get a higher wages the government does not print more money to pay the higher wage, it comes from higher prices that peaceful non-violent people must pay.

In short, violent union workers rip off those who do not use union violence to get their wages. A union is not pro labor, just pro union labor and is happy to screw others.

Please provide some examples of union violence which is not reactive.

At the time when the union movement had achieved its most prodigious goals the American Middle Class was created and the Nation enjoyed the most prosperous and productive decades in its history, those between the 40s and the 80s -- when Ronald Reagan commenced the union-busting era.

And here we are.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

that of course is liberal, stupid, and demonstrates that as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

When a union uses violence to get a higher wages the government does not print more money to pay the higher wage, it comes from higher prices that peaceful non-violent people must pay.

In short, violent union workers rip off those who do not use union violence to get their wages. A union is not pro labor, just pro union labor and is happy to screw others.

Please provide some examples of union violence which is not reactive.

an owner will go to jail if he doesn't recognize and bargin with the violent union whereas real Americans obtain their wages in peaceful voluntary relationships with no threat of violence.

At the time when the union movement had achieved its most prodigious goals the American Middle Class was created and the Nation enjoyed the most prosperous and productive decades in its history, those between the 40s and the 80s -- when Ronald Reagan commenced the union-busting era.

too stupid!! That was after WW2 when Japan China and Europe had been bombed out!!

When a union uses violence to get a higher wages the government does not print more money to pay the higher wage, it comes from higher prices that peaceful non-violent people must pay

 

[MikeK]

that of course is liberal, stupid, and demonstrates that as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

[...]

Whoever taught you to read wasted a lot of their time.

You have graduated from the simply stupid, which is excusable, to the offensively stupid, which is not. So you can now join the Moron Society which inhabits my Ignore list and I will waste no more time trying to save you from yourself.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

that of course is liberal, stupid, and demonstrates that as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

[...]

Whoever taught you to read wasted a lot of their time.

You have graduated from the simply stupid, which is excusable, to the offensively stupid, which is not. So you can now join the Moron Society which inhabits my Ignore list and I will waste no more time trying to save you from yourself.

translation: As a typical liberal I have never studied economics, know I'm too dumb to learn, lack the character to admit it, and so will end this debate before I embarrass myself and liberalism further.

 

[kiwiman127]

that of course is liberal, stupid, and demonstrates that as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

[...]

Whoever taught you to read wasted a lot of their time.

You have graduated from the simply stupid, which is excusable, to the offensively stupid, which is not. So you can now join the Moron Society which inhabits my Ignore list and I will waste no more time trying to save you from yourself.

translation: As a typical liberal I have never studied economics, know I'm too dumb to learn, lack the character to admit it, and so will end this debate before I embarrass myself and liberalism further.

Ed, about everyone on these boards, liberal, moderate and conservative, are very aware of the fact you don't understand economics, which you proved without any help from the rest of us.

 

[Rshermr]

Without unions do you really believe you would have a chance of being paid what you are worth?

as a liberal you will be a perfect economic illiterate.

Under capitalism you must pay the higest wage possible or lose your best workers and go bankrupt!

It seems simple but a liberal will lack the IQ to understand that let alone challenge it.

During the Gilded Age, the era of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Wagner and other archetypal capitalists, the average wage earner was working 12 hour days, six day weeks for poverty wages with zero benefits and working conditions which in many jobs were lethally dangerous -- especially in mines and in steel mills. And when organized protests were raised gangs of armed goons, like the Pinkertons, were brought in to suppress them, often leaving corpses, severely beaten, and the crippled behind. When you refer to union violence you overlook the original cause of it.

As usual you don't know what you're talking about. You really should do some reading so you won't appear so abjectly ignorant.

Here are some recommendations. Educate yourself:

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
What Do We Need A Union For
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW

What you need to understand is that Ed is a self professed libertarian. Now, most conservative males denounce libertarian beliefs by puberty. Those who do not are eds. That i.s congenital idiots.

So, the gilded age, working 6 or 7 days a week is to ed PARADISE. Oh, and don't blame ed. It is just plain bad luck.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

as a liberal you will be a perfect economic illiterate.

Under capitalism you must pay the higest wage possible or lose your best workers and go bankrupt!

It seems simple but a liberal will lack the IQ to understand that let alone challenge it.

During the Gilded Age, the era of Rockefeller, Carnegie, Wagner and other archetypal capitalists, the average wage earner was working 12 hour days, six day weeks for poverty wages with zero benefits and working conditions which in many jobs were lethally dangerous -- especially in mines and in steel mills. And when organized protests were raised gangs of armed goons, like the Pinkertons, were brought in to suppress them, often leaving corpses, severely beaten, and the crippled behind. When you refer to union violence you overlook the original cause of it.

As usual you don't know what you're talking about. You really should do some reading so you won't appear so abjectly ignorant.

Here are some recommendations. Educate yourself:

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
What Do We Need A Union For
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW

What you need to understand is that Ed is a self professed libertarian. Now, most conservative males denounce libertarian beliefs by puberty. Those who do not are eds. That i.s congenital idiots.

So, the gilded age, working 6 or 7 days a week is to ed PARADISE. Oh, and don't blame ed. It is just plain bad luck.

as a liberal you will be a perfect economic illiterate.

Under capitalism you must pay the higest wage possible and offer the best work conditions possible or lose your best workers to those who do and go bankrupt! Ever heard of competition??

 

[Rshermr]

Poor ed. He thinks that we have pure competition. Has not heard about corporations, multinational corporations, and extreme monopoly power. But, what the hell. He makes a couple of bucks posting con dogma. Which anyone can do if they have no integrity.

 

[MikeK]

What you need to understand is that Ed is a self professed libertarian. Now, most conservative males denounce libertarian beliefs by puberty. Those who do not are eds. That i.s congenital idiots.

So, the gilded age, working 6 or 7 days a week is to ed PARADISE. Oh, and don't blame ed. It is just plain bad luck.

I've noticed Libertarian thought affects many of its adherents more like a religion than a political ideology. These acolytes tend to merrily ignore even the most prominently logical arguments to extreme examples of Libertarian fantasy. They appear indoctrinated with a faith-based belief that a society as massive and as complicated as ours can function without taxation and with a bare minimum of government regulation.

 

[regent]

Most utility companies are monopolies.