Unions in the US

[RadiomanATL]

On an individual basis?

TWO EQUALLY INDEPENDENT COMPETITIVE WORKERS. WHICH ONE WILL GET THE JOB?


CHINESE WORKER

AMERICAN WORKER

You think LeBron James is a typical American worker?

I work two jobs.

Therefore my house as twice as big as that "typical American worker's".

 

[The T]

Unions have turned into what they were formed to protect workers from: Organizations driven by profit and the exploitation of workers.

They also serve to protect the incompetent and lazy.

Exactly. And what really was their intent but power and control while using the RUBES that sign up and dues are coereced and used to buy that influence?

Real Americans use their skills and peddle it on merit of it's own accord to get where they need to be sans the thuggery dealt out by thugs that could give a shit about their members individually.

*YES* I said it and you may quote me.

 

[daveman]

I work two jobs.

Therefore my house as twice as big as that "typical American worker's".

Careful. Shintao's gonna call you rich and demand you be taxed higher.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

My dad was part of a union his entire working life. I remember him when he was on strike when I was in high school. When he got in trouble, they helped save his ass.

That strike he was in while I was in high school convinced the company that continuing operations at that plant was counterproductive, and they closed it down the next year.

I have never been part of a union.

 

[daveman]

Unions have turned into what they were formed to protect workers from: Organizations driven by profit and the exploitation of workers.

They also serve to protect the incompetent and lazy.

Exactly. And what really was their intent but power and control while using the RUBES that sign up and dues are coereced and used to buy that influence?

Real Americans use their skills and peddle it on merit of it's own accord to get where they need to be sans the thuggery dealt out by thugs that could give a shit about their members individually.

*YES* I said it and you may quote me.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to add that unions spend a great deal of their money on political campaigns without seeking their members' input, and pressure their members to vote Democrat.

 

[shintao]

The formation of unions forced the hands of our labor department's guidelines. They were pushed into doing more for the labor force to more closely mirror union benefits.
Unions have since gone ape-shit crazy with their benefits.
By tacking on all these outrageous "legacy costs" they've priced us out of our own products.

Take the recent discussion of the CF bulbs and the banning of incandescents for example.
GE has had to lay off more than 500 workers because, with their current cost of labor, they won't be able to produce the new bulbs efficiently and would be cost prohibitive.
It's either pay $14 per bulb from ourselves or a buck or 2 from China.

LOL! No American can compete with a foreigner in the Global market, so it would make no difference if the worker is Union or NonUnion. I assume you are a capitalist that doesn't believe in making more money & benefits, so would work for free. Don't assume it is the Unions that caused $14 bulbs. That is why CEOs have a employment and there is a gap in this country between the middle class & top 10%. Had there been Union job protection for the scabs the gap would have never happened. Now you find your only options are making less money and giving up your benefits. Tsk!! And then blame Unions!!! LMAO!! I don't see Union members starving with their livingwages and benefits, and I do see disgrunted people like you jealous because of what Unions have done for their workers.

Disgruntled because $2,000 of any new car price is strictly to cover these ridiculous legacy costs, you Hack.

First, I don't believe you, and second prove that statement, ya scab.

 

[The T]

Unions have turned into what they were formed to protect workers from: Organizations driven by profit and the exploitation of workers.

They also serve to protect the incompetent and lazy.

Exactly. And what really was their intent but power and control while using the RUBES that sign up and dues are coereced and used to buy that influence?

Real Americans use their skills and peddle it on merit of it's own accord to get where they need to be sans the thuggery dealt out by thugs that could give a shit about their members individually.

*YES* I said it and you may quote me.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to add that unions spend a great deal of their money on political campaigns without seeking their members' input, and pressure their members to vote Democrat.

Board rules prohibit REP toward you at this time.

 

[Missourian]

On an individual basis?

On a collective basis.

When a first-world standard of living competes with a second or third world standard of living, there is only one possible outcome...eventual equilibrium.

That's a boon for the second or third world labor force as their standard of living rises, but it is a curse for the American labor force, as their standard of living must suffer an equivalent decline.

I was looking for shint's answer

Using his previous posts as a guide, I've taken the liberty of compiling it for you...
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[daveman]

Exactly. And what really was their intent but power and control while using the RUBES that sign up and dues are coereced and used to buy that influence?

Real Americans use their skills and peddle it on merit of it's own accord to get where they need to be sans the thuggery dealt out by thugs that could give a shit about their members individually.

*YES* I said it and you may quote me.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to add that unions spend a great deal of their money on political campaigns without seeking their members' input, and pressure their members to vote Democrat.

Board rules prohibit REP toward you at this time.

*tips hat*

 

[RadiomanATL]

On a collective basis.

When a first-world standard of living competes with a second or third world standard of living, there is only one possible outcome...eventual equilibrium.

That's a boon for the second or third world labor force as their standard of living rises, but it is a curse for the American labor force, as their standard of living must suffer an equivalent decline.

I was looking for shint's answer

Using his previous posts as a guide, I compiled it for you...
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​

Yeah, he beat you to that already

 

[The T]

LOL! No American can compete with a foreigner in the Global market, so it would make no difference if the worker is Union or NonUnion. I assume you are a capitalist that doesn't believe in making more money & benefits, so would work for free. Don't assume it is the Unions that caused $14 bulbs. That is why CEOs have a employment and there is a gap in this country between the middle class & top 10%. Had there been Union job protection for the scabs the gap would have never happened. Now you find your only options are making less money and giving up your benefits. Tsk!! And then blame Unions!!! LMAO!! I don't see Union members starving with their livingwages and benefits, and I do see disgrunted people like you jealous because of what Unions have done for their workers.

Disgruntled because $2,000 of any new car price is strictly to cover these ridiculous legacy costs, you Hack.

First, I don't believe you, and second prove that statement, ya scab.

And there goes your credability...as if you ever had any.

 

[Moon]

Bingo.

They are, for the most part, simply separate arbitration companies now.

And companies need customers. Therefore they will use means at their disposal to pressure workers to join unions.

Yep. My 70+ year old mother was forced to join the union where she works. She works because she wants to and typically puts in less than 10 hours per week, but she HAD to join the union, or else. So now the union takes like $4 a week out of her paycheck.

All they want are the dues. They don't care about your mother.

Exactly right.

 

[The T]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to add that unions spend a great deal of their money on political campaigns without seeking their members' input, and pressure their members to vote Democrat.

Board rules prohibit REP toward you at this time.

*tips hat*

Back at ya brother.

 

[shintao]

I just did.




In the majority of cases, if you are part of the union you can't back out and retain your job.




When a union forms, if you are part of the <50% who did not want to join, too bad in the majority of cases. Either you join or find a new job.



In my area, there are two major chain grocery stores. One is union, one is not. They have nearly identical benefit packages for their workers. Identical pay scales. Only difference is that the Union members see more money taken out of their check for union dues than the non-union store. For no extra benefits than the non-union store.



Yeah, thats a winner for the workers. Lets take more money away from those who can least afford to lose it.

Oh, well, you the capitalist, would have them working for free and no benefits, so................

[...........................]

1. Negative is my example? Huh?

That was all you posted. Huh?

2. Better benefits, wages, opportunities. Take your pick. Your question is akin to asking why would someone go work for someone else. It's all on an individual basis. You say you can't see why someone would work for a non-union shop. At least you admit you are blind.

Not blind at all. GM workers make more money than nonUnion scab workers.

3. A scab working for free and no benefits? Man, you really are full of hooey. A person works for a benefits package, part of which is compensation. You just said they do it for nothing. Are you embarrassed to be this stupid?

Thats what is being suggested imbecile, that there is something wrong for a capitalist to strive fro higher wages and benefits and retirements. I can only assume you expect the scab to work for free in your ideal world.

4. There is no additional benefits between the two employers. We're talking grocery clerks here. The pay scales are identical. The insurance is comparable. Although the non-union shop does close at night, allowing the employees to go home to be with their families, and is closed on Easter. The union shop is open 24 hours, and is open on Easter.

And retirement packages? Benefits like free legal advice? Dental care? Employment placements? Job training? Tell you the truth, I think you are full of bullshit.

5. I would have them working for free and for no benefits? Sorry, you just lost the argument with that hyperbole. When you have no rational counter, just lie and accuse the other person of whatever bullshit strikes your fancy.

That is what you are suggesting, that a Union worker making a living wage is making too much money, ya scab. I am just putting down what your are saying scabby. You want to play this big capitalist role, yet deny workers a living wage. What the hell do you work for if not for a living wage? You just lost the argument scabby.

You lost. Good day.

You folded and ran. Take care.

 

[skookerasbil]

Looks to me as if JB and Shintao have pwned themselves again!!!

 

[shintao]

Union workers are out to get everything they can get.

Sounds like Corporations, not Unions. Unions will negotiate downward for the benefit of the corporation in hard times like this. They will work for 25% less than contracted if need be to help the corporation ~ just like GM Union workers did. But I might ask, why do you work if not to get all you can get? Are you a capitalist or defeatous? Maybe you should work for free?



I would have to see an example of this. Have a reference??

Also, the attitude of the union workers that I know suck. They are pretty demanding and will tell you what they won't do but seldom, if ever, do you hear one say what he will do. They are only interested in protecting their job so their sub-par performance will not get them fired. I think all unions should be outlawed.

Hmm, is there something wrong with protecting your employment? I have not seen sub-par performance, so show an example. Usually Union workers do more than nonunion workers, hence better pay & benefits. What other interest should a worker have than protecting his employment? Do you still have that job working for free & doing everything you can to quit? IF I followed your logic, that would be the case...........

Typical "Pro-union" bullshit. Do you guys all have a handbook you learn this speech from?

Oh, yeah, it was fashioned to oppose the corporate CEO handbook of ******* workers in America. I see no bullshit, so you probably smell your dirty undies.

 

[skookerasbil]

poll fail for the kooks

 

[antagon]

unions could manage to stay around into the 21st century. they will have to change their concept and demonstrate that they've got something to offer their members and the businesses who contract them. they'll not likely keep the shelter they've been afforded for the last century.

i picked C

 

[daveman]

LOL! No American can compete with a foreigner in the Global market, so it would make no difference if the worker is Union or NonUnion. I assume you are a capitalist that doesn't believe in making more money & benefits, so would work for free. Don't assume it is the Unions that caused $14 bulbs. That is why CEOs have a employment and there is a gap in this country between the middle class & top 10%. Had there been Union job protection for the scabs the gap would have never happened. Now you find your only options are making less money and giving up your benefits. Tsk!! And then blame Unions!!! LMAO!! I don't see Union members starving with their livingwages and benefits, and I do see disgrunted people like you jealous because of what Unions have done for their workers.

Disgruntled because $2,000 of any new car price is strictly to cover these ridiculous legacy costs, you Hack.

First, I don't believe you, and second prove that statement, ya scab.

That’s because labor costs, for all the attention they have been receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a vehicle.​

The article gives a good breakdown of what the unions cost the car-buyer.

 

[JBeukema]

When a union forms, if you are part of the <50% who did not want to join, too bad in the majority of cases. Either you join or find a new job.

Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

In my area, there are two major chain grocery stores. One is union, one is not. They have nearly identical benefit packages for their workers. Identical pay scales. Only difference is that the Union members see more money taken out of their check for union dues than the non-union store. For no extra benefits than the non-union store.

Yeah, thats a winner for the workers. Lets take more money away from those who can least afford to lose it.

[/QUOTE]

The flaw: would the other store have such benefits if they didn't have to view with the first store for workers?